5-4

Dames & Moore v. Regan

Tue, 24 Mar 2026 08:00:09 +0000

A 1981 case about how the president doesn’t really have to follow the text of the law if Congress already let them ignore it. Oh yeah, and Iran is involved.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Andrew Parsons. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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No War Is Illegal (When They All Are) [TEASER]

Tue, 17 Mar 2026 08:00:51 +0000

As President Trump leads the U.S. into his very own middle eastern war, now may be a good time to ask: what part of the government actually has the power to declare war? And why does this theoretically limited power get used…constantly? Countries around the world would love to know.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Learning Resources Inc. v. Trump

Tue, 10 Mar 2026 08:00:44 +0000

Is the Supreme Court’s decision on tariffs a declaration of independence?? Only three columnists at the New York Times can say.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Immigration Law in 2026: Fighting the Cruelty Machine

Tue, 03 Mar 2026 09:00:10 +0000

This week, Rhiannon and Michael talk to two immigration lawyers about what it’s like to practice under the second Trump administration, the unprecedented uncertainty their clients face, why habeas petitions are taking off, the freaks who become ICE lawyers and ICE judges, and why there’s actually…reasons to hope??

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Meet Your Attorney General, Pam Bondi [TEASER]

Tue, 24 Feb 2026 09:00:01 +0000

Was she assembled in a lab by the Heritage Foundation? Summoned from beyond the veil by a MAGA demonologist? Or is she simply an emergent feature of Florida’s political swamp? Learn the history of your very angry Attorney General, Pam Bondi.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Pulsifer v. United States

Tue, 17 Feb 2026 09:00:22 +0000

What does “and” REALLY mean?

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Delgado

Tue, 10 Feb 2026 09:00:13 +0000

The fourth amendment protects against unlawful searches and seizures…unless, of course, the search is just a friendly survey from your local armed immigration officer!

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

2026 Mailbag: Is Any Of This Legal? [TEASER]

Tue, 03 Feb 2026 09:00:38 +0000

5-4 answers your questions about whether ICE agents can be prosecuted, why it’s worth knowing your rights, if the president can cancel the midterms and…whether there’s revolutionary potential in tax evasion. As always, this is not legal advice™.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

The Rise and Fall of the Voting Rights Act, Part II

Tue, 27 Jan 2026 09:00:30 +0000

How the Voting Rights Act of 1965 was dismantled.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

The Rise and Fall of the Voting Rights Act, Part I

Tue, 20 Jan 2026 09:00:27 +0000

The history of why we needed (and still need) the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.]

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Andrew Parsons with help from Alli Rodgers and Zachary Clary. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

The 2025 5-4 Giving Guide: Don’t Let the Fascists Keep You Down

Tue, 23 Dec 2025 09:00:34 +0000

https://immigrationequality.org/

bit.ly/donatepym2025

https://www.palestinianyouthmovement.com/

https://brigidalliance.org/donate-in-2025/

https://trees.org/

https://chuffed.org/project/158294-for-those-who-have-no-one-to-campaign-for-them

https://1804books.com/products/witness-to-the-hellfire-of-genocide

https://www.iwrising.org/donate

https://give.foodbanknyc.org/

tinyurl.com/freeleqaafund

https://wandaalstonfoundation.org/

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

Movie Review: Average Joe [TEASER]

Tue, 16 Dec 2025 09:00:06 +0000

A movie about a dipshit who prays his way to the Supreme Court. It’s worse than you imagine.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at www.patreon.com/fivefourpod.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Trump v. Orr

Tue, 09 Dec 2025 09:00:32 +0000

Trans erasure. Anti-intellectualism. Culture war. Moral panic. These are a few of the Supreme Court’s favorite things!

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.]

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Fire at Will: Trump’s Illegal War in the Caribbean [TEASER]

Tue, 25 Nov 2025 09:00:57 +0000

These days, three degrees of separation from a drug dealer is all it takes to get you drone struck by the U.S. government in Venezuela. And look, maybe these extrajudicial killings aren’t exactly legal, but the bigger problem for all you sissy justice lovers out there is that this administration doesn’t care about the law.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Department of Homeland Security v. Thuraissigiam

Tue, 18 Nov 2025 09:00:21 +0000

*** An earlier version of this episode incorrectly referred to the asylum officers who conduct credible fear interviews as border patrol agents. ***

If the government is acting all authoritarian-y, detaining you in violation of your rights, there’s a basic assumption in the Constitution that you can use “The Great Writ” of habeas corpus to challenge that unlawful behavior. But Samuel Alito would like to remind you what happens when you ASS U ME. Something something immigrants, something something you’re wrong. So yeah, Constitution HUMILIATED.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

“What’s at Stake is Everything”: The Last Columbia Protester in ICE Detention

Tue, 11 Nov 2025 09:00:23 +0000

You've heard about all the Supreme Court cases about how immigration law is different, about how ICE's powers are different, about how the Trump administration can do whatever it wants…on this episode, Rhiannon talks to Leqaa Kordia's lawyers about what all this means for a Palestinian woman in ICE detention right now. The good news is: our liberation is interconnected, and we can fight the good fight.

Sign the Free Leqaa Petition: Free Leqaa Campaign

Follow the Free Leqaa Campaign on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freeleqaakordia/

Hear Leqaa in her own words: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/detained-the-last-columbia-protester/id207505466?i=1000735106793

New Yorker article: https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-last-columbia-protester-in-ice-detention

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Garcetti v. Ceballos

Tue, 04 Nov 2025 09:00:18 +0000

The Supreme Court tramples upon your most sacred right: the right to complain about your co-workers.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Panic! In The Federal Judiciary [TEASER]

Tue, 28 Oct 2025 08:00:10 +0000

You know things are really bad when federal judges–historically an extremely reticent group–are sounding the alarm about the chaos and confusion the Supreme Court is reaping these days. Never fear, Amy Coney Barrett is here to remind all of us that everything is fine, because the shadow docket is not a big deal, originalism is fun and interesting, and she's a real human mother.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Lopez-Mendoza

Tue, 21 Oct 2025 08:00:38 +0000

I think we can all agree that the Constitution guarantees every individual certain unalienable rights–oh wait, sorry, getting a call. Right. Sorry. Okay. Yea. Got it. Hey, so I think we can all agree that immigration law is different from other laws, and the Constitution doesn’t really apply there.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Rhiannon Interviews Mahmoud Khalil

Sat, 18 Oct 2025 10:00:10 +0000

On this episode of Popular Cradle, (Rhiannon’s other podcast!), she interviews Columbia grad student Mahmoud Khalil, who was detained by ICE for more than 100 days earlier this year. You can find Popular Cradle wherever you listen to podcasts.

Department of State v. AIDS Vaccine Advocacy Coalition

Tue, 14 Oct 2025 08:00:49 +0000

Feels like we should be able to collectively wrestle with the problems of a system by which 14 million people will die in the next five years because one man can decide to withhold a bunch of money that Congress said needed to be spent, but unfortunately, because of the law, and what the law says, no one can sue about it. Good luck with figuring this one out.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Free Speech, Chilled to Perfection [TEASER]

Tue, 07 Oct 2025 08:00:41 +0000

Do you ever feel…like a plastic bag, drifting through the wind, wanting to start again? That’s understandable because battles over free speech and the First Amendment are raging right now, whether on the internet, on TV, in the workplace, or in the streets. But baby, you’re a firework. And the Trump administration can’t take that from you.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

2025-2026 Supreme Court Term Preview

Tue, 23 Sep 2025 08:00:05 +0000

You are getting very sleepy…you are getting very sleepy…HEY! Wake up. It may look like the slate of cases for this Supreme Court term doesn't have many fundamental constitutional rights hanging in the balance, but don’t be lulled into thinking any of this is low stakes. Voting rights, trans people in sports, the death penalty—they’re still on that legal fascism grind, down to every little gear and lever.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Noem v. Vasquez Perdomo

Tue, 16 Sep 2025 08:00:03 +0000

Papers, please. The hallmark of fascist states of eras past and your favorite movie about authoritarianism is now also the official policy of the United States, with the Supreme Court’s blessing. But don’t worry, you (probably) won’t be stopped, unless you kinda look Hispanic or shop at Home Depot! I feel safer already.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Welcome to Law School 2025

Tue, 09 Sep 2025 08:00:44 +0000

Kudos to everyone who is starting law school in this economy and during an authoritarian regime. In this annual episode, Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael share their wisdom on how to survive law school.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Step Your Pussy Up Under Fascism [TEASER]

Tue, 02 Sep 2025 08:00:47 +0000

It's okay to be scared. It's hard not to succumb to the nihilism of the second Trump administration. But that is precisely what he and his administration want you to do. Please don't fall for it. Instead, own your power, make them fear you, and for God's sake, STEP YOUR PUSSY UP!

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Medina v. Planned Parenthood South Atlantic

Tue, 26 Aug 2025 08:00:47 +0000

Federal law says that Medicaid recipients have the right to choose their healthcare provider. One problem, though–what if a Medicaid recipient chooses to go to Planned Parenthood to get healthcare? In that case, federal law doesn’t really say what it means. Federal law is silly like that sometimes!

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

McMahon v. New York

Tue, 12 Aug 2025 08:00:27 +0000

Don't be sad, little Johnny, Trump just took the Department of Education to live on a big farm with so much space to run around and play in, and all the treats the Department of Education could ever dream of. The Department of Education will miss you, too, Johnny, but we promise she's so much happier now.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.]

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Trump Brings the War Home [UNLOCKED]

Fri, 08 Aug 2025 18:41:58 +0000

California has become a testing ground for Trump's police state ambitions. In Los Angeles and across the country, he’s merging the military and the police into one entity, with its guns aimed inward.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

“Experts Question the Legality of Deploying National Guard Officers as Immigration Judges”

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Free Speech Coalition, Inc. v. Paxton

Tue, 29 Jul 2025 08:00:45 +0000

Please have your driver's license, social security card, or any other highly personal private information ready to share if you wish to rub one out to online porn.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Mahmoud v. Taylor

Tue, 22 Jul 2025 08:00:17 +0000

Because the conservatives on the Supreme Court are lowkey homophobic, they have made it easier for parents of kids in public schools to opt out of topics that make them uncomfortable. LGBTQ books, no thank you— evolution, not for my kids.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Portrait of a John Roberts on Fire [TEASER]

Tue, 15 Jul 2025 08:00:05 +0000

These “boys” and in some cases “gals” keep proving us right! The 2024-2025 Supreme Court term was a beautiful illustration of this podcast’s entire thesis: this is an institution untethered by law, beholden only to right-wing ideology, and led by a real dipshit Chief Justice.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Trump v. CASA, Inc.

Tue, 08 Jul 2025 08:00:12 +0000

CTRL+F for “birthright citizenship” in this majority opinion, and you only get two hits. That’s because Amy Coney Barrett spends thousands of words telling you that the President's evisceration of birthright citizenship from the Constitution isn’t really about birthright citizenship, it’s about nationwide injunctions.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

United States v. Skrmetti

Tue, 01 Jul 2025 08:00:14 +0000

The Supreme Court has made life more difficult for trans children, who are already among the most marginalized groups in the country.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

The DOGE Cases

Tue, 17 Jun 2025 08:00:00 +0000

The Supreme Court allowed the 20-somethings at DOGE to access your Social Security information. What's the worst that could happen?

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Trump v. Wilcox

Tue, 10 Jun 2025 08:00:00 +0000

The Supreme Court just made it easier for Trump to fire heads of independent federal agencies. Unitary executive theory, anyone?

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Copaganda with Alec Karakatsanis [TEASER]

Tue, 03 Jun 2025 08:00:00 +0000

Crime rates are at historic lows, yet year after year, people say that they feel unsafe and believe crime is rising. You can thank the news media with help from corporations and law enforcement narratives. We speak with civil rights lawyer Alec Karakatsanis about his new book, Copaganda: How Police and the Media Manipulate Our News.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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Jones v. North Carolina Prisoners' Labor Union

Tue, 27 May 2025 08:00:00 +0000

If the Supreme Court can take away constitutional rights from one minority group, it can do it to any of us. Yes, even podcasters.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

No Due Process, Yes Jumbo Plane [TEASER]

Tue, 20 May 2025 08:15:53 +0000

Since taking office, Trump has moved quickly to implement his authoritarian agenda. Now, he is asking the Supreme Court to limit the judicial branch by preventing individual judges from blocking his orders.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

More on Trump's big beautiful plane - https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/19/politics/trump-adminstration-approached-qatar-jet

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier

Tue, 06 May 2025 08:00:00 +0000

The Supreme Court has been stripping away students' free speech rights for decades. They don't want you to think for yourself or speak your mind. You might end up making podcasts like this.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode and also lame! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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United States v. Zubaydah

Tue, 29 Apr 2025 08:00:00 +0000

Following the 9/11 attacks, both liberal and conservative justices contributed to the rise of some authoritarian powers that the Trump administration is now wielding today.

ERRATA: Henry Blodget is no longer the CEO of Business Insider.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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Movie Review: The Firm [TEASER]

Tue, 22 Apr 2025 08:00:00 +0000

The Firm, the legal thriller starring Tom Cruise, shows us that big law is sometimes worse than the literal mob.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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Introducing... Fiasco: Iran-Contra

Mon, 21 Apr 2025 15:32:57 +0000

New from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries: it's a new edition of Fiasco: Iran-Contra, widely available for the first time ever. New episodes of Fiasco release Mondays, available wherever you get your podcasts. Pushkin+ subscribers can listen to the full season of Iran-Contra, ad-free, now. Find Pushkin+ on the Fiasco show page in Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin.fm/plus.

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Trump v. J.G.G.

Tue, 15 Apr 2025 08:00:00 +0000

The Supreme Court under Trump 2.0 is engaging in their favorite pastime: finding convoluted procedural reasons to rule in his favor.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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Department of State v. Muñoz

Tue, 08 Apr 2025 08:00:00 +0000

Finally, the Supreme Court gets to live its dream: being xenophobic and homophobic at the same time.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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Authoritarian Creep(s) [TEASER]

Tue, 01 Apr 2025 08:00:00 +0000

The Trump administration has moved at breakneck speed to suppress free speech, mass deport hundreds of individuals without due process, and target judges who dare cross him – moves straight out of an authoritarian playbook.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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Mobile v. Bolden

Tue, 25 Mar 2025 08:00:00 +0000

While a law may have discriminatory or racist effects—such as diluting the Black vote in a city and rendering those votes essentially meaningless—this does not necessarily mean it was created with malicious intentions. The Supreme Court says that we should assume good faith and not presume that some laws are enacted with racist motives... Sure...

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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San Francisco v. EPA

Tue, 18 Mar 2025 08:00:00 +0000

How much poop is in our water? The Supreme Court says “not enough.”

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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The Powell Memo [TEASER]

Tue, 11 Mar 2025 08:00:00 +0000

Before he was ever a Supreme Court justice, Lewis Powell was an enterprising corporate attorney representing tobacco companies and calling on CEO’s to get off their asses and flood American politics with money.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

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McCutcheon v. FEC

Tue, 25 Feb 2025 09:00:00 +0000

Presidential candidates raised more than $1.6 billion in the 2024 election cycle, but if you think flooding politics with money is bad then you don’t understand FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Thanks to this Supreme Court decision, that pesky problem of an individual donor not being able to give more than $117,000 to political campaigns because of stupid campaign finance laws has now been solved.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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NIFLA v. Becerra

Tue, 18 Feb 2025 09:00:00 +0000

Crisis pregnancy centers can provide misinformation about healthcare and perform medical procedures without requiring a licensed doctor. Yes, all of that is legal, thanks to the Supreme Court.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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Your Trump 2.0 Questions, Answered [UNLOCKED]

Thu, 13 Feb 2025 09:00:00 +0000

This episode was available early to Premium members. If you'd like that kind of perk, consider joining at fivefourpod.com/support.

What do you do if ICE comes to your door? How will Trump enforce his anti-trans orders? Are there risks to podcasting in the age of Trump? You asked some really dark questions, and we have answers.

To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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Trump’s Opening Salvo

Tue, 11 Feb 2025 09:00:00 +0000

Trump’s blitzkrieg of executive orders has left many of us scrambling. The policies are cruel and reactionary, but do they amount to a constitutional crisis?

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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Your Trump 2.0 Questions, Answered [TEASER]

Tue, 04 Feb 2025 09:00:00 +0000

What do you do if ICE comes to your door? How will Trump enforce his anti-trans orders? Are there risks to podcasting in the age of Trump? You asked some really dark questions, and we have answers.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode, including this one with helpful tips on how to survive Trump 2.0!

To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.]

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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TikTok v. Garland

Tue, 28 Jan 2025 09:00:00 +0000

The Supreme Court says that you don’t have a constitutional right to post short form videos of cute cats. Is it time for a revolution?

You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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Murphy v. NCAA

Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:00:00 +0000

You may have noticed that sports betting apps have taken over the world in just a few short years. Blame the Supreme Court.

You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

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5-4 x Know Your Enemy: Trump 2.0 and the Courts

Tue, 14 Jan 2025 09:00:00 +0000

Peter and Michael join the hosts of the podcast "Know Your Enemy" to discuss how Trump is likely to reshape the federal judiciary during his second term. They talk about some of Trump's judicial appointees as well as outgoing President Biden's successes and failures in the courts.

You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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The 2024 5-4 Giving Guide

Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:00:05 +0000

Every year we like to share some organizations that have a special meaning to us. Given the year ahead, please consider donating or, at the very least, keep listening to 5-4.

https://vocal-tx.org

shutitdown4palestine.org/fundraiser

https://www.detentionwatchnetwork.org

https://www.hechoonline.org

https://runforsomething.net

https://www.marinemammalcenter.org

https://debtcollective.org

https://www.pcrf.net/

https://www.tahirih.org/

https://www.assignedmedia.org/

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Dustin DeSoto is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our Peter song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Holiday Extravaganza: Drake, TikTok, and the Clean Girls [TEASER]

Tue, 17 Dec 2024 09:00:24 +0000

Only subscribers can hear the rest of our conversation about some of pop culture's entertaining legal battles. You could impress your friends at the holiday party by having a fresh take on the Drake and Kendrick beef or knowing the latest regarding the potential TikTok ban. Be smart and sound cool -- become a subscriber!

Here is a link to The Verge influencer lawsuit story by Mia Sato Bad influence

To hear the whole episode, subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Bonus content, access to a vibrant 5-4 Slack community, and occasional denunciations of listeners who disappoint us.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Illinois v. Wardlow

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:00:58 +0000

Imagine losing some of your civil rights based on where you happen to be hanging out. Crazy, we know.

You should walk, not run (unless you want to be detained and searched by police), to fivefourpod.com/support to become a premium member, where you can hear every episode. You can also subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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United States v. 95 Barrels of Vinegar

Tue, 03 Dec 2024 09:00:00 +0000

We should all want accurate food labels and strong regulations. We don't want to consume raw milk or mix dolphin in our canned tuna... well, maybe some do.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get first dibs on live show tickets, dig into our Premium episode catalog, join our Slack community, and more. Join us at fivefourpod.com/support. You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Small Dick Durbin Energy [TEASER]

Tue, 26 Nov 2024 09:00:37 +0000

Only subscribers get to hear the rest of our conversation about how the Democratic party fell short of making judicial appointments and failed to hold Republicans - and specific Supreme Court Justices accountable. A lot of these mistakes stem from one man, Senator Dick Durbin.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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First as Farce, Then as Tragedy

Tue, 12 Nov 2024 09:00:26 +0000

Damn you, Merrick Garland. This all could have been avoided... With the election now over, we digest what happened with our friends Jay Willis from Balls & Strikes and journalist Josie Duffy Rice.

You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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The Year Ahead for Trans Rights [UNLOCKED]

Wed, 06 Nov 2024 21:43:28 +0000

With a second Trump presidency on the horizon, we look ahead to how trans rights will be under attack.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Movie Review: My Cousin Vinny [TEASER]

Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:00:00 +0000

Only subscribers get to hear the rest of our delightful review of My Cousin Vinny, which we consider one of the best courtroom movies ever. It's Joe Pesci and Marisa Tomei. What's not to love?

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Elon Musk’s War on Workers

Tue, 29 Oct 2024 08:00:45 +0000

How America’s morally and physically ugliest billionaires are plotting to destroy labor rights.

You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode. To get first dibs on live show tickets, dig into our Premium episode catalog, join our Slack community, and more, subscribe at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Madeline Kaplan. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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The Coming Battle Over Reproductive Rights

Tue, 22 Oct 2024 08:00:00 +0000

Could a national abortion ban already be in the works? A majority of Americans say no thank you, but as we know, that doesn't matter... *cough* Roe V Wade *cough*

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get first dibs on live show tickets, dig into our Premium episode catalog, membership in our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Mackenzie v. Hare

Tue, 08 Oct 2024 08:00:30 +0000

Think you're an American citizen just because you're born here? Think again.

You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

Donations for the Middle East Children’s Alliance and the people of Gaza here - shutitdown4palestine.org/fundraiser

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2024-2025 Supreme Court Term Preview

Tue, 01 Oct 2024 08:00:03 +0000

Do you love culture war? Then the upcoming Supreme Court term is for you...

You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

Donations for the Middle East Children’s Alliance and the people of Gaza here - shutitdown4palestine.org/fundraiser

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The Roberts One-Step (TEASER)

Tue, 24 Sep 2024 08:00:05 +0000

This is a subscriber-only episode about the Real John Roberts, as rendered in a New York Times exposé about the Chief Justice's role in shaping Trump-related jurisprudence and turning the Court into a tool of the ex-President.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode. To get first dibs on live show tickets, dig into our Premium episode catalog, join our Slack community, and more, subscribe at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Lena Richards. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Securities and Exchange Commission v. Jarkesy

Tue, 17 Sep 2024 07:59:17 +0000

White collar ass crime...

You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Benjamin Frisch. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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United States v. Stanley

Tue, 10 Sep 2024 12:51:54 +0000

Is being dosed against your will with mind-altering drugs just part of being a soldier? You won't believe what the famously prankish Supreme Court says...

You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Now is a good time: We have an exclusive subscriber-only episode coming next week.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Welcome to Law School 2024

Tue, 03 Sep 2024 08:00:51 +0000

You've heard about the law on 5-4… now, what if you went to a school about it? In this annual episode, let Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael tell you what you need to know if you're sticking your foot in the old meat grinder.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Rachel Ward. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Biden, Harris, and the Future of Court Reform (TEASER)

Tue, 27 Aug 2024 05:51:15 +0000

This is a subscriber-only episode about Biden's proposals for reforming the Supreme Court... will the hosts of 5-4 say "we do"?

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Fischer v. United States

Tue, 20 Aug 2024 05:10:06 +0000

Did the January 6th riot "obstruct an official proceeding"? That depends on how you interpret that very straightforward and unambiguous phrase.

You can subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Now is a good time: We have an exclusive subscriber-only episode coming next week.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Grants Pass v. Johnson

Tue, 13 Aug 2024 04:43:43 +0000

It's not about BEING homeless, it's about doing something that's homeless.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo

Tue, 30 Jul 2024 08:00:34 +0000

Barbie doesn't have shit on John Roberts. Now that he's killed off Chevron deference, Roberts can be an aircraft safety inspector, biomedical researcher, highway planner, nutritionist, Atlantic herring fishing boat monitor ... the possibilities are endless!

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Snyder v. United States

Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:00:37 +0000

We once again revisit the idea that a bribe is only a bribe if it's in a pillowcase with a dollar sign on it, or from a check with "in exchange for illegal favors" on the memo line.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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United States v. Rahimi

Tue, 09 Jul 2024 08:00:43 +0000

This case includes descriptions of domestic violence. Please take care while listening.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Trump v. United States

Tue, 02 Jul 2024 22:18:41 +0000

Take a deep breath. John Roberts just handed Donald Trump the keys to the country and said "don't bother bringing it back in one piece."

If you're not a 5-4 Premium subscriber, you won't hear that Rahimi episode that we've got planned for next week. Just sayin!

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Garland v. Cargill

Tue, 25 Jun 2024 08:00:06 +0000

Citing Urban Dictionary and wikiHow*, Clarence Thomas argues that a gun that can kill hundreds of people with a single trigger pull is not a machine gun.

*Not actually true but those are the vibes.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Alexander v. South Carolina NAACP

Tue, 18 Jun 2024 08:00:46 +0000

The Court is back at again, pretending like they don't understand politics, while handing conservatives a victory that cements their power in South Carolina.

To buy tickets for our DC show, head here:

https://www.seetickets.us/event/5-4-live/604614

To buy tickets for our NYC show head here:

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/5-4-live-tickets-912709608007

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear the entire Premium archive, first dibs on live show tickets, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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"The Constitution Includes Everybody" Live at Harvard Law School

Tue, 11 Jun 2024 08:00:54 +0000

Harvard invited us back (so that's on them) to talk about the speciousness of originalism, inclusive constitutionalism, and how to get serious about court reform. Featuring Balls and Strikes' Madiba Dennie, author of The Originalism Trap: How Extremists Stole the Constitution and How We the People Can Take It Back (out now!) and Ryan Doerfler of Harvard Law School.

To get access to this and other Premium-only episodes, membership in our Slack community, first dibs on live show tickets, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Justice Alito's Red Flags

Tue, 04 Jun 2024 08:00:34 +0000

Run a January 6th insurrectionist flag up the pole and see who salutes. Oh look! It's appointed-for-life Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito!

Did you know that the majority of tickets to our DC and NYC shows were sold before the shows were even public? That's because our beloved Premium subscribers got first dibs. Plus they'll get to listen to the full version of this episode! If you're jealous, come on board at fivefourpod.com/support!

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Arizona v. Navajo Nation

Tue, 28 May 2024 08:00:07 +0000

Brett Kavanaugh might have had a better shot at writing a reasonable decision if Arizona v. Navajo Nation revolved around beer rights instead of water rights, but instead the associate justice barfed up a garbled opinion about property rights.

Did you know that our Premium subscribers got first dibs on our live show tickets? One of those shows is already sold out! Does that give you FOMO? If so, you can join at fivefourpod.com/support and also get membership in our Slack, exclusive episodes, invites to events, and more.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Maryland v. King

Tue, 21 May 2024 08:00:14 +0000

In the movies, detectives trail a suspect until he messes up and throws his DNA-soaked paper cup into the trash. In real life, they just pretend like they don't understand the word "identify" in order to abuse the 4th Amendment.

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The 2024 Mailbag Episode [TEASER]

Tue, 14 May 2024 08:00:11 +0000

What to do if you get arrested (not legal advice™), why are the liberal justices just sitting back while conservatives devour the judiciary, and whether or not to vote for Biden - you've got questions, we've got … maybe not "answers," but definitely "responses."

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Free Rhiannon! Campus Protests and the First Amendment

Tue, 07 May 2024 08:00:30 +0000

Rhi got locked up. The food was bad, the comrades were immaculate, and while the friendless centrist pundits on Twitter were wrapping themselves in knots to try to argue protests aren't speech, the kids were keeping the focus where it belongs: On Gaza.

If you don't think laws are real either you can get a sick shirt about it from Shout Your Abortion: https://shout-your-abortion.square.site/shop/apparel/3

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Hans v. Louisiana

Tue, 30 Apr 2024 08:00:17 +0000

E Pluribus Unum, more like E Pluribus Sue Them! In America, if your landlord refuses to do repairs, you sue 'em. If you get food poisoning from a chain restaurant, you sue 'em. But if you're stripped of your bodily autonomy by your state legislature via a bounty hunting scheme, you CAN'T sue your state in federal court, because of Hans v. Louisiana.

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Retire, Sonia [TEASER]

Tue, 23 Apr 2024 08:00:45 +0000

Listen, we're not going to do the whole merch thing again, but it's time to hang up the robe and hit the beach. Or: another episode where we call for Sonia Sotomayor to retire.

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Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project

Tue, 16 Apr 2024 08:00:11 +0000

Santa isn't the only one who keeps a naughty and nice list. And if your organization winds up on the United States' list of bad boys (designated terrorist organizations), you can forget about receiving legal representation or assistance from US-based firms. That's material support, according to this holding, even if that support doesn't contribute to terrorism in any way.

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The (Constitutional) Crisis at the Border

Tue, 02 Apr 2024 08:36:05 +0000

Texas passed a law that allows it to police the US border with Mexico without regard to federal policy. That may seem like a little oopsy but actually it's a big "fuck you."

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United States v. Jones

Tue, 26 Mar 2024 08:00:02 +0000

The Court does not want you to plead not guilty by reason of insanity and to enforce that, they'll happily sign off on you being institutionalized for far longer than the prison sentence that you would have served. You'll need a mental health day after this one for sure.

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Illinois v. Caballes

Tue, 19 Mar 2024 08:00:00 +0000

This is the story of a man with the worst luck in the whole world, and how Jay-Z called the whole thing.

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Trump v. Anderson

Thu, 07 Mar 2024 09:07:32 +0000

We're joined by Balls and Strikes' Jay Willis in this emergency episode to talk about Trump v. Anderson, which challenged Colorado removing Trump from the primary ballot. In a shocking twist, the Court held that Colorado can't do that. JK that's not shocking - the twist is that the dogs you hear barking in this episode are Jay's, not Michael's.

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How to Teach Constitutional Law [TEASER]

Tue, 05 Mar 2024 09:00:00 +0000

The legal academy is losing its mind. Good news for us, the profs are talking about their broken brains in the New York Times. Today on the show, Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael discuss “The Crisis in Teaching Constitutional Law” by Jesse Wegman to snark on the state of legal education.

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5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Benjamin Frisch is our producer for this episode. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

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Nixon v. Fitzgerald

Tue, 27 Feb 2024 09:00:09 +0000

You can't sue the President if they wronged you, as long as what they did was in the course of their official duties. And maybe possibly if they did it out unofficially out of spite, or because they were just feeling crimey that day. Thank goodness we have this fantastic precedent to help us deal with Trump's many cases!

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Maryland v. Shatzer

Tue, 20 Feb 2024 09:00:47 +0000

Groundhog Day but make it interrogation. The Supreme Court says cops are welcome to keep hauling you in for questioning as long as they honor an arbitrary waiting period.

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The Federalist Society, part 4: How to Fight Back [TEASER]

Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:00:40 +0000

Let's burn this motherfucker down metaphorically speaking OF COURSE! Today we're talking about how to counter Fed Soc's influence on campus and in the courts. The game plan isn't to copy their strategy - it's to play to the left's strengths.

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The Federalist Society, part 3: The Spoils

Tue, 06 Feb 2024 09:00:51 +0000

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist. He learned it from the Federalist Society, by watching them steadily shift the terms on which all contemporary legal issues are argued. Now even progressive jurists feel compelled to debate the debate club on its own turf. The Devil is duly impressed.

For more about what Fed Soc hath wrought, check out Amanda Hollis-Brusky's Ideas with Consequences: The Federalist Society and the Conservative Counterrevolution (Oxford University Press, 2019).

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. This episode was fact-checked by Arielle Swedback. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

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The Federalist Society, part 2: The Debate Club

Tue, 30 Jan 2024 09:00:37 +0000

First you get the money, then you get the power. But FIRST first you get the law students. This week we're exploring the tentacles of the Federalist Society, and how a so-called debate club pulls levers across government, the legal profession, and academia, to achieve its conservative ideological goals.

Hear more from this episode's contributors:

Vanessa A. Bee is the author of HOME BOUND: An Uprooted Daughter’s Reflections on Belonging (Astra Publishing, 2022).

Andrea Bernstein's reporting with ProPublica and WNYC, about Leonard Leo, is available on On The Media's "We Don't Talk about Leonard" series.

Nancy Gertner is the author of In Defense of Women: Memoirs of an Unrepentant Advocate (Beacon Press, 2011).

Jon Hanson is the director of Harvard Law School's Systemic Justice Project, a problem-centric alternative to the traditional legal-educational mode.

Amanda Hollis-Brusky is the author of Ideas with Consequences: The Federalist Society and the Conservative Counterrevolution (Oxford University Press, 2014).

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The Federalist Society, part 1: Immodest Origins

Tue, 23 Jan 2024 11:14:01 +0000

There's a powerfully connected right-wing organization operating at every elite law school in the nation. It built itself by leveraging the conservative victim complex, the Reagan revolution, networks of judges and activists, and cold hard psycho millionaire cash. This is the story of the Federalist Society.

If you can't get enough of these monsters, you may want to read The Rise of the Conservative Legal Movement: The Battle for Control of the Law (Princeton, 2008) by Steven Teles, or listen to ProPublica and WNYC's "We Don't Talk About Leonard" series on On the Media.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin and this episode was fact checked by Arielle Swedback. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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The 5-4 Giving Guide 2023

Fri, 22 Dec 2023 09:00:20 +0000

Every year we like to shout out organizations that inspire us or have deeply embarrassing kompromat on us. Good luck guessing which is which!

https://www.icareaboutcoral.org/

https://shoutyourabortion.com/

https://www.assignedmedia.org/

https://www.librariesforthepeople.org/

https://palestinianfeministcollective.org/

https://www.newalternativesnyc.org/

https://www.projectstreetvet.org/

https://fa.urbanjustice.org/donate/

https://secure.actblue.com/donate/eoy2023pl

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How to Lose Your Job by Supporting Palestine [UNLOCKED]

Thu, 21 Dec 2023 20:03:27 +0000

This episode was available early to Premium members. If you'd like that kind of perk, consider joining at fivefourpod.com/support.

Ryna Workman and Jinan Chehade were both knocked off the Big Law course they thought they were on, after expressing solidarity with Palestine. Now they're on a mission to make some good trouble.

Thanks for being a 5-4 Premium member! Your support means the world to us!

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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How to Lose Your Job by Supporting Palestine [TEASER]

Tue, 19 Dec 2023 09:00:19 +0000

Ryna Workman and Jinan Chehade were both knocked off the Big Law course they thought they were on, after expressing solidarity with Palestine. Now they're on a mission to make some good trouble.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

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Epic Fail! Constitutional Amendments That Didn't Make the Grade [TEASER]

Tue, 12 Dec 2023 09:00:07 +0000

It's basically impossible to amend our crummy Constitution, as demonstrated by the litany of proposed amendments that have face planted directly into the dustbin of history.

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Glacier Northwest, Inc. v. International Brotherhood of Teamsters

Tue, 05 Dec 2023 09:00:02 +0000

Our nation has laws, procedures, and courts for settling labor disputes. But what if you're a concrete company and you don't wannnnnnnnnnnnnna go through the system that Congress authorized specifically for this purpose? Then you take it to state court baybeeee - and see if SCOTUS will let you sneak out of the National Labor Relations Board process.

Hey, did you know that if you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode? To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

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Abe Fortas: The Justice Who Walked So Clarence Thomas Could Run [TEASER]

Tue, 28 Nov 2023 09:00:43 +0000

Get a load of this - this guy accepted a SALARY for TEACHING at a SCHOOL. Simply not Supreme Court justice material. Get the guy who sold a house to a billionaire instead.

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Read the book that inspired this episode: Battle for the Marble Palace by Michael Bobelian

Massive thanks to Workers Defense Project in Austin for opening their offices up to us for taping. You can show them some love here! https://workersdefense.org/en/

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Richardson v. Ramirez

Tue, 21 Nov 2023 09:00:15 +0000

We want to dedicate this episode to Vermont and Maine, the only two states in this whole goddamn country that let everyone exercise their Constitutional right to vote. What are they putting in that syrup? Everywhere else, you've got Richardson v. Ramirez to thank for the movement to disenfranchise people who've been caught up in the criminal punishment system.

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Schenck v. United States

Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:00:57 +0000

War! Huh! Yeah! What is it good for? Absolutely suppressing speech!

Read "The Anti-Surveillance Coalition's Highest-Stakes Gamble" by Spencer Ackerman

https://foreverwars.ghost.io/the-anti-surveillance-coalitions-highest-stakes-gamble/

Listen to Know Your Enemy: Elon Musk, the Jews, and the ADL, with Mari Cohen, Alex Kane, and Peter Beinart

https://www.dissentmagazine.org/blog/know-your-enemy-elon-musk-adl/

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A Note From Rhiannon

Tue, 07 Nov 2023 12:00:19 +0000

You are a person with power. Now is the time to use it.

Call your representatives:

https://ceasefiretoday.com/

Join a protest:

https://www.shutitdown4palestine.org/

Follow:

@palestinianyouthmovement

@motaz_azaiza

@byplestia

@wizard_bisan1

@mohammedelkurd

@pal_legal

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Legally Blonde [TEASER]

Tue, 31 Oct 2023 08:00:20 +0000

A conversation about Legally Blonde has to do with the Supreme Court … how? Because we assume in Elle's universe she's now chief justice, and John Roberts teaches PE at a middle school in Buffalo.

5-4 Premium members get this full episode, and our extensive back catalogue of Premium-only episodes. To make sure you can hear every episode we release, and get access to our Slack community, first dibs on live show tickets, invites to monthly events and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Palestine Legal: "The Great Difference a Movement Lawyer Can Make"

Tue, 24 Oct 2023 08:00:02 +0000

We're sharing this episode of Rhiannon's movement lawyering series with all of our listeners. Our Patreon subscribers heard it first, back in March.

In this episode, Rhiannon talks with Palestine Legal's senior staff attorney Radhika Sainath and staff attorney Dylan Saba about their mission to protect Palestinian activists from harassment, and the power of intersectional liberation movements.

You can learn more about Palestine Legal here:

https://palestinelegal.org/

And if you'd like to join the network of attorneys that Palestine Legal works with to defend activists, reach out here:

https://palestinelegal.org/contact

This episode is living proof that if you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

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Geduldig v. Aiello

Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:26:44 +0000

This case about discrimination on the basis of pregnancy might have you thinking that Potter Stewart said "trans rights are human rights." Absolutely not. Mans said "get back in the kitchen, wench."

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

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Berghuis v. Thompkins

Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:00:32 +0000

In a world where the police are charged with protecting your Constitutional rights, they'd be climbing all over themselves to read you your Miranda Rights. We don't live in that world.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

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The Southern Manifesto [TEASER]

Tue, 03 Oct 2023 10:00:59 +0000

Proving once again that the sequel is always worse … we present Brown v. Board of Education II, and the rest of the cases that southern states used to try to delay integration, circumvent the Supreme Court's authority, and develop new legal strategies to preserve de facto segregation.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Hampton v. United States

Tue, 26 Sep 2023 08:00:06 +0000

My life is a movie! A movie where a federal agent sets me up to do a drug deal by providing the buyers and the drugs but somehow that's not entrapment! A horror movie if you will.

Here's the This American Life episode that Michael recommends, "What I Did for Love."

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/457/what-i-did-for-love

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2023-2024 Term Preview with Chris Geidner

Wed, 20 Sep 2023 14:18:35 +0000

Doesn't it feel like we JUST did a term recap episode? What if the Supreme Court just like took a gap year or something, and left us all in peace for once. Wouldn't that be nice? Alas, no such luck. You're losing more rights this year … AGAIN.

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Your Questions: Jury Nullification, Law School Reform, and More [TEASER]

Tue, 12 Sep 2023 08:00:24 +0000

We have the smartest, most curious listeners in the business and in this episode we're answering your burning questions with a fire extinguisher of wisdom and insight straight to the face.

5-4 Premium members get to hear the full episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

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United States v. Sioux Nation with Nick Estes

Tue, 05 Sep 2023 08:00:08 +0000

We're joined by Nick Estes, of The Red Nation podcast to talk about Indigenous sovereignty, land back, and how stupid Mount Rushmore is.

You can find Nick's work at www.therednation.org.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

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Welcome to Law School 2023

Tue, 29 Aug 2023 08:00:22 +0000

Just like clockwork, the Spirit Halloweens are popping up and law students are heading back to campus, which means it's time for our Welcome to Law School episode. Come for the updates, and stay for the milk crate challenge!

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The Twisted Mind of Clarence Thomas [TEASER]

Tue, 22 Aug 2023 08:00:42 +0000

Jump int the RV kids, we're exploring Clarence Thomas' dissents, concurrences, and the mind of the man. Buckle up, because it's a twisted road.

5-4 Premium members get to hear this whole episode, and a whole bunch of other episodes you're not hearing if you don't subscribe. To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard

Tue, 15 Aug 2023 08:00:32 +0000

The Supreme Court has overturned one of our nation's only proactive strategies for addressing its foundational sin. But what's worse, the most annoying guy on the cross country team just lost his last best excuse for why he didn't get into Harvard. Enjoy SUNY Binghamton, Bronckton!

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Harisiades v. Shaughnessy

Tue, 08 Aug 2023 14:26:55 +0000

The lapsed memberships of your youth can be held against you in immigration proceedings. It's only a matter of time until all Neopets users are deported.

Is this a weird time to mention our Premium subscription? If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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2022-2023 Term Reflections [TEASER]

Tue, 01 Aug 2023 16:07:51 +0000

The 2022 Supreme Court term is officially over. Don't you feel relieved? lol us neither.

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DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services

Tue, 18 Jul 2023 08:00:10 +0000

This episode discusses child abuse. We urge you to take care while listening.

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Biden v. Nebraska

Tue, 11 Jul 2023 08:00:54 +0000

Absolutely fuck the major questions doctrine, fuck this Court, and fuck student loan debt. Come get pissed with us.

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303 Creative LLC v. Elenis

Tue, 04 Jul 2023 08:00:01 +0000

In this case from this past Friday, the Court has added a giant loophole to our anti-discrimination laws. How big is the loophole? About the size of a 161’6″ super yacht or a Bombardier Global 5000 private jet.

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Sackett v. EPA (Sackett II)

Tue, 27 Jun 2023 08:00:25 +0000

What has a head and a mouth, but cannot wear a hat? A river! What has its head up its ass, and cannot interpret the Clean Water Act correctly? The Supreme Court!

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Protecting Trans Rights with Erin Reed [UNLOCKED]

Thu, 22 Jun 2023 16:07:19 +0000

This episode was available early to Premium members. If you'd like that kind of perk, consider joining at fivefourpod.com/support.

Journalist Erin Reed monitors assaults to trans rights across the country. We talked to her about the evolution of anti-trans legislation, common conservative strategies, and what cases might end up before the Supreme Court.

You can find Erin's incredible "Anti-Trans Legislative Risk Map'' at erininthemorning.com. It's a map of "two Americas - one where trans people have full legal protections, and one where they are persecuted by the state."

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American Ship Building Company v. National Labor Relations Board

Tue, 13 Jun 2023 08:00:21 +0000

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run

There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun

Unless the highest court in all the land decides that you are done

Then your union job is gone.

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Sierra Club v. Morton

Tue, 06 Jun 2023 08:00:31 +0000

I am Bill Douglas, I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top of my lungs - who does have standing?

Unless … 👉👈

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The Fall and Rise of the Death Penalty [TEASER]

Tue, 30 May 2023 08:00:53 +0000

The death penalty has a long, ugly, racially-motivated history in the United States. Let's dig into the state's monopoly on violence and see what terrible things it reveals about us as a nation, shall we?

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5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our production manager is Percia Verlin. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

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United States v. O'Brien

Tue, 23 May 2023 08:00:44 +0000

War, huh, yeah. What is it good for? Curtailing the First Amendment!

5 to 4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our production manager is Percia Verlin. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

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The Shadow Docket with Steve Vladeck

Tue, 09 May 2023 08:00:19 +0000

As the Court has moved right, it's been using the "shadow docket" to execute on more of its agenda. Previously reserved for emergencies, like stays of executions, the process of hearing cases outside of the Court's ordinary calendar is now frequently used to issue unsigned and unexplained decisions that overturn the status quo. We'll dig into it with University of Texas School of Law professor Steve Vladeck, and author of The Shadow Docket: How the Supreme Court Uses Stealth Rulings to Amass Power and Undermine the Republic.

5 to 4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our production manager is Percia Verlin. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon) and Michael (@_FleerUltra) on Twitter. You can follow the show on Twitter and Instagram @fivefourpod.

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Palmer v. Thompson

Tue, 02 May 2023 08:00:05 +0000

Jackson, Mississippi out here with the supervillian-level attitude towards public goods - "if I have to share, then no one can have it."

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The Thomas/Crow Affair [TEASER]

Tue, 25 Apr 2023 08:00:24 +0000

Just to refresh your memory - bribery is when you write "bribe in exchange for your vote" on the memo line of a check, OR when you sign a contract saying you are doing bribes and then drop a pillowcase full of cash off at someone's office while multiple DOJ officials are watching.

A billionaire ferrying a public official around on his private jet and super yacht, while he sits on the board of multiple organizations that are trying to influence the Court, is NOT bribery. It's just friends bein' friends!

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Ewing v. California

Tue, 18 Apr 2023 08:00:57 +0000

The tension is palpable with the count tied at 3-2 … the defendant steps up to the plate and … OH! Swing and a miss! That's the third strike for our defendant which means the Court is going home with the win and the defendant is going to jail forever! Tax payers will also move down in the standings; they'll be footing the bill for senseless incarceration for 25 years to life. The 8th Amendment also takes a hit with this loss, moving down from "Constitutional law" to "that's just your opinion, man."

If you think this episode description is dumb, wait until you hear the rationale in the decision.

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Noted Segregationist William Rehnquist [TEASER]

Tue, 11 Apr 2023 08:00:51 +0000

Well if intimidating minority voters, issuing memos in support of school segregation, and moving into a neighborhood that bars Jews from owning homes there makes you a segregationist …

…then William Rehnquist was a segregationist. A man who served as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Until 2005. The same year Gorillaz released "Feel Good Inc." The year Wedding Crashers came out. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia premiered BEFORE this man left the bench. Please do not let your takeaway here be "man I feel old."

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Cruzan v. Missouri Department of Health

Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:00:36 +0000

This episode contains discussions about the right to die, end of life matters, and suicide, which may be uncomfortable for some listeners. If you or someone you know is struggling with thoughts of suicide, please seek help immediately. Resources and support for those in need can be found at the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988lifeline.org, or by dialing 988. Please take care while listening.

Thanks to Erin Hawley, who reviewed this episode and helped us make it better. You can find her online at geekygimp.com.

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Palestine Legal: "The Great Difference a Movement Lawyer Can Make" [TEASER]

Fri, 31 Mar 2023 08:00:10 +0000

We're back with another episode of Rhiannon's movement lawyering series! In this episode, Rhiannon talks with Palestine Legal's senior staff attorney Radhika Sainath and staff attorney Dylan Saba about their mission to protect Palestinian activists from harassment, and the power of intersectional liberation movements.

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5-4 x Bloc Party: Michael on How the Dems Flopped on Debt Relief

Tue, 28 Mar 2023 08:00:48 +0000

Breaking news! It's not just the Supreme Court that sucks - it's ALSO the executive and legislative branches! This week we're sharing Michael's appearance on Bloc Party, talking about how oral arguments went down in the SCOTUS cases that could make or break Biden’s student loan cancellation initiative. Eleni Schirmer from the Debt Collective also joins in, to cringe at Roberts’ lawnmower commentary and reflect on the way Biden is (or more notably…is not) exercising his executive authority.

Bloc Party is a show from Justice Democrats about the fight for the soul of the Democratic Party, featuring progressive champions challenging the status quo from inside the halls of power and the organizers transforming the party’s agenda from the outside. You can find it wherever you found this podcast.

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Boyle v. United Technologies Corporation

Tue, 21 Mar 2023 08:00:05 +0000

What does a military contractor have in common with Justice Antonin Scalia? They both manufacture things! The contractor manufactures helicopters with faulty escape hatches. Scalia manufactures, out of whole cloth, new laws about who can be held liable for deaths. Neither of them care if you live or die, as long as the designs are to spec!

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"When I say EMPTY you say SKULL" - Live in Austin [TEASER]

Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:00:19 +0000

Recorded live at Stateside at the Paramount! Join us as we skewer Texas judges (not literally!), teach a robot to argue before the Supreme Court, and answer the question that has haunted this podcast from the very beginning: Who IS Leon Neyfakh?

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5-4 Presents: Unreformed - "The Lucky Ones"

Tue, 07 Mar 2023 09:00:51 +0000

This week, 5-4 invites you to check out an episode of Unreformed: the Story of the Alabama Industrial School for Negro Children, hosted by friend-of-the-pod Josie Duffy Rice.

In 1968, police arrested five Black girls dressed in oversized military fatigues in Montgomery. The girls were runaways, escaping from a state-run reform school called the Alabama Industrial School for Negro Children in Mount Meigs, Alabama. The girls were determined to tell someone about the abuse they’d suffered there: physical and sexual violence, unlivable facilities, and grueling labor in the fields surrounding the school. It was, as several former students called it, a slave camp.

UNREFORMED is the story of how this reform school derailed the lives of thousands of Black children in Alabama for decades and what happened after those five girls found someone willing to blow the whistle. Host Josie Duffy Rice investigates the history of the school at the tail end of the Civil Rights movement in Alabama and speaks to former students who are still haunted by their experience but had the will to survive.

If you like Unreformed, you can find it here: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-unreformed-the-story-of-t-107005437/

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In re Gault with Josie Duffy Rice

Tue, 28 Feb 2023 09:00:09 +0000

It's not easy being a kid. Especially when the state thinks you don't have any constitutional rights. Thank goodness for this week's case, In re Gault, where the Court decides you can have a little rights, as a treat.

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Prosecutorial Immunity, or "FTP" Means Prosecutors Too [TEASER]

Tue, 21 Feb 2023 12:14:43 +0000

You know and hate qualified immunity, which allows cops to get away with murder. Now meet prosecutorial immunity, the judge-made doctrine that allows prosecutors to get away with the death penalty. Prosecutorial immunity shields prosecutors from the consequences of their actions - whether it's putting witnesses they know are lying on the stand, withholding exculpatory evidence, or retaliating against you for refusing a plea. APAB.

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Connick v. Thompson Encore

Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:00:02 +0000

What is the greater crime? Missing a recording and pushing an episode back by a week … or using the full power of the state to prosecute a man for something he did not do, confining him in solitary as he awaits execution, and then appealing the remedy that he is awarded when exculpatory evidence (that the prosecution probably hid from the defense) resurfaces? Anyway, here's an encore of Connick v. Thompson to help you get hype for next week's Premium episode about prosecutorial immunity.

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"Jones Day Made Trump" - Live at Harvard Law with David Enrich

Tue, 07 Feb 2023 09:00:24 +0000

Recorded live at Harvard Law School's Corporate Capture of the Legal System conference, we're talking about Jones Day. The law firm jumps into bed with all manner of villains with the justification that "everyone deserves representation." But as David Enrich, business investigations editor at The New York Times writes in his new book “Servants of the Damned: Giant Law Firms, Donald Trump, and the Corruption of Justice," what Jones Day actually does goes far beyond "representation."

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Korematsu v. United States

Tue, 31 Jan 2023 09:00:07 +0000

In this case from 1944 the Court decides that arresting someone on "suspicion of being Japanese" and putting them in a concentration camp is not racially motivated. And while we're at it, don't call it a "concentration camp," that makes the justices feel icky.

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Our email is fivefourpod@gmail.com

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Your Questions Answered [TEASER]

Tue, 24 Jan 2023 09:00:43 +0000

Here at 5-4 HQ we get a lot of questions. And while we can't answer the ones from our parents, about what we're doing with our lives, we CAN answer your questions about the law.

The full version of this premium episode is available exclusively to our subscribers. To join, visit https://www.fivefourpod.com/support.

5 to 4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our production manager is Percia Verlin, and our assistant producer is Arlene Arevalo. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

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Giles v. Harris

Tue, 17 Jan 2023 09:00:33 +0000

Don't get it twisted: "the point" whizzing high over the heads of Supreme Court justices is a tradition as old as the Court itself. This case, where the Court holds that it cannot declare discriminatory voter registration unconstitutional because that would "legitimize it," proves our case.

Tickets are selling fast for our Austin live show on Friday, February 24th! Get yours here: https://tickets.austintheatre.org/9063/9064

You know who already knew about the live show tickets? 5-4 Premium members. In addition to all the other perks, they get first dibs on event tickets. To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, discounts on merch, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

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McDonnell v. United States

Tue, 10 Jan 2023 10:00:00 +0000

The dictionary defines "quid pro quo" as "when a businessman walks up to a Congressman in the Capitol and hands him a check with the words 'bribe for doing a favor for me' written on the memo line." Nothing else constitutes bribery. It is so ordered.

We've got an upcoming premium episode answering your questions. If you're dying to know something about the Court, this term, the show, cases, or the hosts, submit your question here! https://forms.gle/yaJrQs3cKhYmnVhs6

And to attend our Austin live show on Friday, February 24th, buy tickets here! https://tickets.austintheatre.org/9063/9064

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5-4 Presents: If Books Could Kill - "Outliers"

Tue, 27 Dec 2022 09:00:12 +0000

This week, 5-4 invites you to check out an episode of If Books Could Kill, featuring Michael Hobbes, of Maintenance Phase, and 5-4's own Peter.

If Books Could Kill deconstructs the airport bestsellers that captured our hearts and ruined our minds. FromThe Game to Freakonomics, if an idea is bad enough, someone has written a book about it, and Peter and Michael are here to rip it to shreds. If you like the show, you can find more wherever you get your podcasts.

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The 2022 Five Four Giving Guide: More Ways to Help

Tue, 20 Dec 2022 09:00:57 +0000

We spend the better part of the year bumming you out about the many ways the law fails to actually provide justice. Thankfully, there are organizations that provide mutual aid and support to right some of the wrongs committed by our judiciary. Here are some of our favorite orgs that are offering healing, advocacy and care, to build the future that we want.

https://reprolegaldefensefund.org/

https://bailproject.org/

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

https://ysrp.org/

https://www.raicestexas.org

https://narf.org/

https://www.yasproject.com/

https://freedomreads.org/

https://www.heartsandbonesrescue.com/

https://www.ourchildrenstrust.org/

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The Pelican Brief

Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:00:08 +0000

For some strange reason, there aren't many thrillers about the Supreme Court. The Pelican Brief remedies this obvious oversight by Hollywood. If you'd like to option 5-4 for film and television, we're all ears.

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Sonia Sotomayor [TEASER]

Tue, 06 Dec 2022 09:00:58 +0000

Associate Justice Sonia Sotomayor is undoubtedly one of our faves. But "no robes, no masters" still applies.

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Glossip v. Gross

Tue, 22 Nov 2022 09:00:35 +0000

This episode contains graphic depictions of an execution. Please take care while listening.

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Utah v. Strieff

Tue, 15 Nov 2022 09:00:31 +0000

The Fourth Amendment protects you from unreasonable search and seizure by the government. Unless the government wants to unreasonably search and/or seize. In that case, the Supreme Court says "go for it babes!"

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Public Defenders: "Incarceration Doesn't Make Us Safe" [TEASER]

Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:00:09 +0000

The full version of this episode is available now to our 5-4 Premium supporters. To join, visit www.fivefourpod.com/support

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Samuel Alito [TEASER]

Tue, 08 Nov 2022 09:00:25 +0000

Justice Samuel Alito is deeply contemptuous of those who don't share his worldview, where abortion is murder, and the cops can do whatever they want, and Jesus would have ruled against the FEC in Citizens United. If hell is real, plan to see Alito there.

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Bowers v. Hardwick

Tue, 01 Nov 2022 08:00:27 +0000

This episode quotes outdated language about homosexuality that maybe painful to hear. Please take care while listening.

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Independent State Legislature Theory

Tue, 25 Oct 2022 08:00:10 +0000

The first time the Supreme Court flirted with Independent State Legislature doctrine, George W. Bush wound up in the presidency. Next time, if conservatives on the court get their way in an upcoming case, your vote - depending on where you live - could lose all meaning.

You can now get 5-4 Premium on Spotify by visiting our website fivefourpod.com/support. There, you can sign up to join 5-4 Premium, which allows you to support the show, get access to bonus episodes, membership in our slack channel, discounts on merch, invitations to special events, and more.

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Rhiannon Resigned and Peter Got Fired [TEASER]

Fri, 21 Oct 2022 08:00:45 +0000

The hosts have some ~personal~ news.

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Legal Discourse and Our Discontents [TEASER]

Tue, 18 Oct 2022 08:00:07 +0000

The state of legal discourse is bad. There's an entire ecosystem of talkers that need the Court to exist so they have something to talk about. Which naturally warps the way they talk about the Court. But the Court's blatant political maneuvering over the last term is impossible to ignore - and it looks like there may be a shift happening in the ecosystem.

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Tanner v. United States

Tue, 11 Oct 2022 08:00:38 +0000

Fun party idea: convene 11 strangers, get zooted at lunch, deal some weed, do a little coke in the bathroom of a courthouse, then determine whether or not you're going to put a human in a cage for a substantial chunk of their life.

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2022-2023 Supreme Court Term Preview

Tue, 04 Oct 2022 08:00:42 +0000

Having accomplished their big goals of overturning Roe and giving a praying football coach back a job he never actually lost and apparently does not want to anymore, conservatives are now looking to the next Supreme Court term. This year, as part of their continued campaign to prove that racism does not exist, they'll try to eliminate affirmative action and federal Indian Law.

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Ketanji Brown Jackson [TEASER]

Tue, 27 Sep 2022 08:00:18 +0000

The Supreme Court term begins next week and for the first time in American history, a Black woman will sit among the justices. Here's everything you need to know about Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's background, judicial philosophy, and approach to haters.

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Minor v. Happersett

Tue, 20 Sep 2022 08:00:39 +0000

Welcome to citizenship in the United States of America - you knew that you weren't guaranteed to get health care, housing, economic security, or education … but did you know that you ALSO aren't guaranteed the right to vote?!

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Vega v. Tekoh

Tue, 13 Sep 2022 08:00:02 +0000

Cops have to read you your Miranda rights. If they don't … nothing happens, according to this recent Supreme Court ruling. Probably nothing to worry about here.

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Welcome to Law School (Again)

Tue, 30 Aug 2022 08:00:35 +0000

Oh my god, MORE of you decided to go to law school? Even after we released this episode last year? Welp. We can't stop you. But we can offer you an encore of our Welcome to Law School episode, where we break down why it's not you - it's law school.

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Read Duncan Kennedy's "Legal Education and the Reproduction of Hierarchy" here.

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Harriet Miers Gets Wrecked [TEASER]

Tue, 23 Aug 2022 08:00:14 +0000

Harriet Miers was a lawyer and advisor in the Bush Administration. But what she was NOT was reliably conservative enough to pass Federalist Society muster. Her failed nomination was the first breath of a new era in Court politics: where you toe the line or you gtfo.

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New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen

Tue, 16 Aug 2022 08:00:06 +0000

The United States has a long, complex, and often contradictory history of firearm regulation. Clarence Thomas reached into that history, selected the parts he liked, discarded the parts he didn’t, and used it to overturn New York’s longstanding handgun licensing law.

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Oklahoma v. Castro-Huerta

Tue, 09 Aug 2022 08:00:18 +0000

Continuing its trajectory of abandoning tests that don't pass the vibe check, the Supreme Court ruled that states can prosecute crimes committed by non-Natives on Native land. The holding overturns literally centuries of precedent and clears the way to eliminate tribal sovereignty all together.

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Free Speech, Cancel Culture, and the Court [TEASER]

Tue, 02 Aug 2022 08:00:07 +0000

Live from the People's Parity convening in Washington, DC, we're talking about free speech and the right's obsession with cancel culture. We're digging into what speech the conservative legal movement thinks is worth protecting (such as the heavenbound prayers of a humble junior varsity football coach) and what speech is not (all other speech).

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"We can make Roe the law everywhere" - An Interview with Senator Elizabeth Warren

Thu, 28 Jul 2022 08:00:00 +0000

Senator Elizabeth Warren, we can only assume against the advice of counsel, agreed to come on 5-4. We talked about the filibuster, the Democratic response to Dobbs, and Peter and Michael's beards.

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WTF Are The Dems Doing? with Jamelle Bouie

Tue, 26 Jul 2022 08:00:45 +0000

Imagine you are given a month and a half head start on a race. Do you A) start running, B) wait around until the official start time to run, or C) act surprised when the race starts and chastise any of your teammates who tell you that it's time to start running? If you chose C, congratulations, you are the Democratic Party responding to the Dobb decision!

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West Virginia v. Environmental Protection Agency

Tue, 19 Jul 2022 08:00:48 +0000

John Roberts has decided that the standard for whether or not something is a "major question" is whether or not it "raises an eyebrow." But like, let's not beat around the bush, John - you can just say vibe check.

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Kennedy v. Bremerton School District

Tue, 12 Jul 2022 08:00:27 +0000

In this case from the most recent term, the Court once again says we should look to history and tradition to determine what's appropriate. Which is gonna be a tough one to parse, because the founders didn't really give us a strong sense of how they felt about junior varsity football games at public high schools. Probably because none of those things had been invented yet.

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Shinn v. Ramirez

Tue, 28 Jun 2022 08:00:14 +0000

This episode contains descriptions of violence against a child that may be challenging for some listeners. Please take care while listening.

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Emergency Episode: Roe Is Overturned

Sat, 25 Jun 2022 22:56:00 +0000

The Supreme Court has released the long-awaited Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization decision. The news is bad.

Ruling in favor of Mississippi, the Court allows the state to ban nearly all abortions after 15 weeks. The opinion is written by Justice Samuel Alito, and is largely the same as the opinion that was leaked earlier this year. Alito writes, "The Constitution does not confer a right to abortion; Roe and Casey are overruled; and the authority to regulate abortion is returned to the people and their elected representatives."

Roe v. Wade, precedent that has guaranteed privacy and bodily autonomy for half a century, is dead, imperiling the access to reproductive healthcare for millions of people.

We know this has been a hard week, but what makes it a little lighter for us is knowing that you all are out there. Thanks for being a listener.

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Egbert v. Boule

Tue, 21 Jun 2022 07:01:02 +0000

In this case the Court holds that you have no right to sue a federal official, even if a border agent trespasses on your property, knocks you to the ground, and calls the IRS on you for having the gall to file a complaint about it. So if you're keeping track at home, the Court is saying that First Amendment and Fourth Amendment don't actually mean anything.

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5-4 x Know Your Enemy: "Overturning Roe, Part One"

Tue, 14 Jun 2022 07:01:30 +0000

The hosts were recently guests on Know Your Enemy, talking about the origins of the conservative legal movement, and its decades-long campaign to overturn Roe v. Wade. This episode is part of a series they're calling "How They Did It," about the likely reversal of Roe. If you like this episode, you find Know Your Enemy wherever you get your podcasts.

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Federal Election Commission v. Ted Cruz for Senate

Tue, 07 Jun 2022 08:00:05 +0000

This week, the hosts use a variety of film and television references to try and capture the pure villainy of a recent ruling that allows candidates to "loan" their campaigns unlimited money and be paid back, with donor funds, AFTER they're elected. We're talking tie-a-damsel-to-the-tracks-twirl-your-mustache level.

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Brett Kavanaugh - Unlocked Premium Episode

Tue, 31 May 2022 08:00:18 +0000

The hosts pound some brewskis with Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh.

Normally there would be no episode in the free feed this week, but we decided to do something special for ya. This episode was originally exclusively available to our Patreon members, but we're giving you a peek into the premium feed. If you enjoyed the episode and want to unlock more like it, like our just-released episode about Originalism, join our Patreon at $5 a month, at patreon.com/fivefourpod.

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Whren v. United States

Tue, 24 May 2022 08:00:23 +0000

This unanimous decision holds that cops who don't deal with traffic enforcement are allowed to tail you until you commit a minor offense, and then literally dive head first into your car to nab you on an unrelated drug charge. It's just another case in a long line of Supreme Court jurisprudence that is preferential to the "I Do What I Want" brand of policing … and completely antithetical to the Fourth Amendment.

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United States v. Vaello Madero

Tue, 17 May 2022 08:00:18 +0000

In this ruling from just last month, the Supreme Court ruled that Puerto Ricans are not entitled to equal protection under the Fifth Amendment because … unclear. Citizens who live in DC and the Northern Mariana Islands? Yes - equal citizens under the law. Puerto Ricans and Guamamians? Sorry, no, try again next century.

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5-4 Live in Oakland [TEASER]

Tue, 10 May 2022 08:00:33 +0000

A common criticism of 5-4 is that adjudicating is hard work, and the hosts have no experience. So to prove that no, judging is actually dummy easy and anyone can do it, in this live show, the hosts rule on disputes brought by the audience. They also talk about Oakland v. BP, in honor of their appearance at The New Parish in Oakland, AND make a very special phone call to everyone's favorite beer aficionado.

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Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health: The End of Roe

Wed, 04 May 2022 19:00:56 +0000

In this emergency episode, the hosts are talking about what happens now that a draft of Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization decision has been leaked. Roe v. Wade will almost certainly be overturned, and abortion will likely become illegal in almost half of the country. But other rights predicated on due process, like birth control, marriage equality, and desegregation, are at risk too.

To learn more about joining a network of lawyers for reproductive justice, visit https://www.ifwhenhow.org/. To donate to a coalition of more than 80 abortion funds, or donate to your local fund, visit https://abortionfunds.org/.

If you or someone you know needs abortion access, visit https://www.ineedana.com/. To learn more about self-managed abortion at home, visit https://www.plancpills.org/.

To help Rachel fundraise $5,000 to end HIV/AIDS - but more importantly, to unlock the Snyder cut of this episode - visit http://tofighthiv.org/goto/racheldotbiz.

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Lassiter v. Department of Social Services

Tue, 26 Apr 2022 08:00:14 +0000

In this case, the Supreme Court rules that a mother who is at risk of losing parental rights for her child is not entitled to a lawyer during the proceedings. This episode features discussions of families interacting with social services and the foster system. Please take care while listening.

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Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Elias-Zacarias

Tue, 19 Apr 2022 08:00:26 +0000

A difference of political opinion is when one person wants the coal industry to get tax breaks, but another person wants the oil industry to get tax breaks. Not wanting to be conscripted into an army to fight in a war against your will is NOT a political opinion. Therefore, it is totally fine for the United States - the nation that instigated the war mind you - to deny you an asylum hearing and send you back to face that certain fate.

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How the Biden SCOTUS Commission Radicalized One Law Professor [TEASER]

Tue, 12 Apr 2022 08:00:38 +0000

President Biden thought he could bury his weaksauce Supreme Court commission report by releasing it right before Christmas. Nice try Joey. We talked to commission member Kermit Roosevelt, of University of Pennsylvania Carey Law School, about being radicalized by his fellow liberals on the commission. Not because they're radical too, but because they're so institutionalist he got fed up.

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5-4 Presents: Damages - "Manoomin v. Minnesota"

Tue, 05 Apr 2022 08:00:11 +0000

This week, 5-4 is inviting you to check out an episode of Damages, from the Critical Frequency Podcast Network.

Damages is a courtroom drama podcast that follows the well over 200 climate lawsuits currently active in courtrooms all over the world. Ranging from explanatory episodes to docuseries to narrative seasons, it’s a show about the quest for justice and a crime against humanity: the climate crisis. In this episode: a case on behalf of wild rice, or manoomin in the Ojibwe language. The rights of manoomin case was originally filed in an effort to stop construction of the Line 3 pipeline. That pipeline has been built, but the case is still active, and it could have major implications for other pipeline fights.

If you like Damages, you can find it https://www.drilledpodcast.com/damages/.

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Lorillard Tobacco Co. v. Reilly

Tue, 29 Mar 2022 08:00:00 +0000

To review: If you are an anonymous donor, using your money to drown out the voices of everyone else in an election, that is free speech. If you are a citizen who wants to tell a cop to fuck off, that is NOT free speech. And if you are a tobacco company that wants to tell children about the rich, smooth taste of a product that will addict and kill them, that is free speech.

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Strickland v. Washington

Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:00:04 +0000

In this case, eight Supreme Court justices felt like it was totally fine to let the state kill a man, even though his lawyer prepared exactly NOTHING to present mitigating factors during the sentencing phase of his trial.

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The Civil Rights Cases of 1883 [TEASER]

Tue, 15 Mar 2022 08:00:39 +0000

In this episode, the hosts discuss a series of cases from 1883 about the 13th and 14th Amendments, which ultimately ushered in the Jim Crow era. And what's really fun (fun?), is that these holdings use some of the very same shitty justifications of racial discrimination that you'll find on Fox News to this very day. Time is a flat circle!

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We Need To Talk About Ginni

Tue, 08 Mar 2022 09:00:50 +0000

In this long-anticipated episode we finally get into The Ginni Problem. New Yorker chief Washington correspondent Jane Mayer joins us to talk cults, insurrection, and other super normal Supreme Court stuff.

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Merrill v. Milligan

Tue, 01 Mar 2022 09:00:26 +0000

The Supreme Court says there's simply no time before elections that are months away, to redraw racist Congressional district maps, that took all of one week to make initially. If you're a fan of democracy that probably sounds bad, but listen, nothing in the Constitution explicitly says that fascism is expressly prohibited.

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The Lochner Era [TEASER]

Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:00:11 +0000

Do you like reboots? You're gonna love The Lochner Era 2: Return of the Robber Barons! Featuring all of the union-busting, labor-exploiting, children-working-in-a-coal-mine of the original Gilded Age, but now with 100 percent more campaign spending by corporations!

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Ingraham v. Wright

Tue, 15 Feb 2022 09:00:59 +0000

This episode contains references to physical abuse of children. Take care when listening.

The standing law on corporal punishment - physically punishing children - in schools, is that it's legal because 8th Amendment protections against cruel and unusual punishment only applies to CRIMES. Failure to get your keister in line mister, is not a crime, and therefore, punishable by beating.

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Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1

Tue, 08 Feb 2022 09:00:05 +0000

Racism equals bad so acknowledging race bad too so reverse racism real so white girl go to preferred school, yes?

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The Best Amendment (The Ninth) [TEASER]

Tue, 01 Feb 2022 09:00:54 +0000

This long-lost amendment gives you rights that our founding fathers, even in their wildest dreams, couldn't enumerate. So that's kind of a problem for modern conservatives.

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NFIB v. Department of Labor

Tue, 25 Jan 2022 09:00:16 +0000

In this ongoing case, the Court holds that requirements that employees mask and test weekly, or get vaccinated, cannot be enforced while a challenge makes its way through the judiciary. It's good news for … I don't know, hermits living in caves who never interact with humans, or people who are already dead? For everyone else, it's not so great.

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Florida v. Riley

Tue, 18 Jan 2022 09:00:23 +0000

Go-go-gadget surveillance state! In this case the Court holds that cops can hover a helicopter over your house and peer into it without a warrant. That set a new standard for the Fourth Amendment - namely that it doesn't really exist, and if you wanted privacy then you should have been richer.

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5-4 Presents: Scene on Radio - "Pachamama"

Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:00:17 +0000

This week, 5-4 is inviting you to check out an episode of Scene on Radio, from the Center for Documentary Studies at Duke University. Scene on Radio asks big, hard questions about who we are, and how we got this way. This season, "The Repair," they're focusing on the climate crisis, and in this episode they're looking at the creative ways we can use the law to protect nature and fend off climate change.

If you like Scene on Radio, you can find it wherever you get your podcasts.

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The Return of the Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 1

Tue, 04 Jan 2022 09:00:28 +0000

Welp, 2021 wasn't a banner year for reproductive rights, and 2022 is looking worse.

That's why it's worth revisiting this episode about Roe v. Wade. In this first episode of a two-part series, the hosts look at the legal and factual origins of Roe v. Wade. They also discuss how Roe was weaponized by the conservative legal movement to rally against an interpretation of the Constitution that allows for flexibility in favor of a far more rigid approach.

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The Return of the Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 2

Tue, 04 Jan 2022 08:59:00 +0000

In the second part of this two-episode series on abortion rights, the hosts discuss Planned Parenthood v. Casey, a 1992 case in which the Supreme Court made it easier for states to restrict abortion access so long as abortion regulations don't create an "undue burden." The vague standard set lawmakers on a new path of attacking abortion access, and fueled anti-abortion groups' efforts to spread stigma and misinformation, setting up Roe v. Wade for a death by a thousand cuts.

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The 5-4 Giving Guide: How to Help

Fri, 24 Dec 2021 09:00:26 +0000

We're sorry for bumming you out all year - but the antidote to a crumbling democracy is mutual aid! In this episode we've got some organizations that you can share your resources with, to help take the edge off of 2021's agony. Happy New Year! Better luck next year!

Here are links to the organizations that we talk about in this episode:

The Legal Aid Society of New York City - https://legalaidnyc.org/ (Peter)

International Refugee Assistance Project - https://refugeerights.org/ (Michael)

Texas Harm Reduction Alliance - https://www.harmreductiontx.org/ (Rhiannon)

Housing Justice for All - https://housingjusticeforall.org/ (Peter)

Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service - https://www.lirs.org/ (Michael)

Jane's Due Process - https://janesdueprocess.org/ (Rhiannon)

Louisiana Center for Children's Rights - https://lakidsrights.org/ (Peter)

Advocates for Children of New York - https://www.advocatesforchildren.org/ (Michael)

Texas Fair Defense Project - https://www.fairdefense.org/ (Rhiannon)

Rivers & Birds - http://www.riversandbirds.org/ (Michael, a gunner)

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Learn more about how you can help get the Judiciary Act passed at https://demandjustice.org/podcast.

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5-4 Presents: The Politics of Everything on "the New Right"

Tue, 21 Dec 2021 09:00:46 +0000

This week, 5-4 is inviting you to check out an episode of The Politics of Everything, from The New Republic:

Today’s youth are overwhelmingly left-wing. So who are the young conservatives? On this episode of The Politics of Everything, hosts Laura Marsh and Alex Pareene talk to Sam Adler-Bell, a writer and the host of the podcast Know Your Enemy, about an energetic cohort who call themselves the New Right. They differ in many ways from the median right-wing voter. They hate the Republican establishment. Their heroes are illiberal authoritarians. Are they going to remake conservatism?

If you like The Politics of Everything you can find it wherever you get your podcasts.

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The Warren Court: 5 Out of 5 Stars [TEASER]

Tue, 14 Dec 2021 09:00:03 +0000

On the 12th day of Christmas, the Warren Court gave to us:

Loving Day on June 12th;

11 December 1952 - final day of argument in Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka;

Nationalization of the first ten amendments;

Nine concurring justices;

(8-1 in Reynolds v. Sims);

Seven birth control pills a week;

Sixth Amendment right to counsel;

Five Miranda rights;

Fourth Amendment protections;

Three expansions of due process;

Brown v. Board of Education II;

And one man, one vote.

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Town of Greece v. Galloway

Tue, 07 Dec 2021 09:00:14 +0000

Let us now bow our heads in observance of this episode about why the Supreme Court thinks it's OK for a government to have prayer before public meetings, but NOT OK for the town to manage who gives that prayer or what they pray about. Amen.

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The Failed Nomination of Robert Bork [TEASER]

Tue, 23 Nov 2021 09:00:07 +0000

Robert Bork, a Regan nominee to the Supreme Court, showed the depth of his reactionary views during his confirmation hearings, and as a result, was voted down. That kicked off three decades of conservative whining and moaning and retribution, which continues to haunt us today. This is why we drink.

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Michigan v. Environmental Protection Agency

Tue, 16 Nov 2021 09:00:36 +0000

What's the return on investment on not having an asthma attack? If you can't count it, it doesn't count, according to the majority in this 5-4 ruling, which turned back EPA rules on mercury emissions from power plants. As a result, the power industry won't be burdened by those costly regulations, so you can breathe easy. LOL.

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Learn more about how you can help get the Judiciary Act passed at https://demandjustice.org/podcast.

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"This Is A Captured Institution" - An Interview with Senator Sheldon Whitehouse

Tue, 09 Nov 2021 09:00:57 +0000

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) joins us to talk dark money, judicial nominations, and whether the Democrats have any hope of getting things done without filibuster reform.

Follow Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon) and Michael (@_FleerUltra) on Twitter.

ERRATUM:

At 17:10 Senator Whitehouse refers to a study of 78 Roberts court era decisions. He incorrectly states that 72 of the cases advance Republican and/or corporate interests. The number is 73 cases, or 92 percent.

Hamdi v. Rumsfeld

Tue, 02 Nov 2021 08:00:32 +0000

A foreign "prisoner of war" can communicate with their family. An American "traitor" can argue their case in court. An American "enemy combatant" can do neither, according to the Supreme Court, creating a third category of prisoner with very few legal rights. America immediately post-9/11 was very chill and normal.

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Learn more about Expand the Court Lobby Day at https://demandjustice.org/podcast.

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Younger v. Harris

Tue, 26 Oct 2021 13:34:05 +0000

Oof, this is a tough one: Protect the Constitutional rights of actual people, or clutch the vague concept of "federalism" in my grubby little hands like Gollum with that ring. TBH probably gonna go with my precious.

Follow Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon) and Michael (@_FleerUltra) on Twitter.

Learn more about Expand the Court Lobby Day at https://demandjustice.org/podcast.

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The Justices Are Getting Defensive [TEASER]

Tue, 19 Oct 2021 08:00:42 +0000

When a Supreme Court Justice tells you he's totally legitimate and not part of a secret cabal 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩.

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2021-2022 Supreme Court Term Preview

Tue, 12 Oct 2021 08:00:39 +0000

The 2022 Supreme Court term is shaping up to be pretty gnarly. We brought on The Nation's justice correspondent, Elie Mystal, to walk us through the cases he's watching.

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Follow Elie on Twitter @elieNYC.

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Nieves v. Bartlett

Tue, 05 Oct 2021 08:00:41 +0000

This case originates out of an incident at opposite Burning Man, a ski race in Alaska called Arctic Man. The ruling is about opposite free speech, wherein the justices vote to protect cops' First Amendment right to accidentally say the quiet part out loud when they're doing a retaliatory arrest.

Patreon subscribers get ad-free case episodes, premium episodes, invitations to exclusive events, merch discounts, and more. Jealous? Join at patreon.com/fivefourpod.

Follow Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) on Twitter.

Learn more about Expand the Court Lobby Day here: https://actionnetwork.org/forms/lobby-day-2/?source=djo

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Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl

Tue, 21 Sep 2021 08:00:17 +0000

A treaty or law not honored by the United States? It's more likely than you think! In a rare child custody case, the Supreme Court rules on the Indian Child Welfare Act, and finds that when you squint your eyes and look at the law kinda sideways in the dark, Congress must not have meant for the law to actually keep Native families together. Land back.

Listen to This Land with Rebecca Nagle, so that Rachel can get that $50. And for more about Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl, check out this episode of More Perfect.

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Eviction Moratorium: A Perfect Storm of Conservative Bullshit [TEASER]

Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:00:56 +0000

Liberty and the pursuit of justice for landlords and landlords only. In this episode, the hosts talk about how the Supreme Court contorted its reading of the law to deny the Centers for Disease Control the ability to ban eviction during the pandemic.

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SB8: Whole Woman’s Health v. Jackson

Fri, 03 Sep 2021 22:55:12 +0000

In this emergency episode, the hosts discuss Whole Woman’s Health v. Jackson, the case where the Supreme Court declined to stay SB8.

SB8 is the monstrous Texas law that allows anyone to sue anyone who even intends to help someone get an abortion after 6 weeks of pregnancy. The effect is that while very early term abortions are still legal in Texas, private individuals have been deputized to bounty hunt abortion providers, activists, and even Uber drivers.

To help Texas women receive abortion care you can donate to this ActBlue fund, which splits the resources across several Texas-based abortion funds.
Go to needabortion.org to give funds or get access to care.
To find your local abortion fund, visit abortionfunds.org.
To join the Center for Reproductive Rights Lawyers' Network, contact lawyersnetworkinfo@reprorights.org.

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Welcome to Law School

Tue, 31 Aug 2021 08:00:03 +0000

What, like it's hard? This one goes out to all those incoming, current and former Elle Woodses. You're doing amazing sweetie!

Read Duncan Kennedy's "Legal Education and the Reproduction of Hierarchy" here.

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Nestlé v. Doe

Tue, 24 Aug 2021 08:00:50 +0000

Is it wrong to enslave children on a cocoa plantation? We'll never know! The Supreme Court dismissed the case!

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Stephen Breyer [TEASER]

Tue, 17 Aug 2021 08:00:29 +0000

In this episode, we spend an hour explaining why you should buy our "Stephen Breyer Retire" merch.

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Americans for Prosperity v. Bonta

Tue, 10 Aug 2021 08:00:00 +0000

The First Amendment protects the rights of very rich people to be anonymous, unbothered, moisturized, in their lane, well-hydrated, flourishing, when it comes to their charitable contributions. Not you though. Signing that petition to free Mumia in 11th grade is going on your permanent record.

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Brnovich v. Democratic National Committee

Tue, 03 Aug 2021 08:00:00 +0000

In this voting rights case from Arizona, the Supreme Court says you can DO racism, you just can't MEAN to do racism, deep down in your cold little withered heart.

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Why Supreme Court Media Coverage Sucks [TEASER]

Tue, 27 Jul 2021 08:00:35 +0000

The legal media isn't doing its job. Except for us. We're killing it.

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5-4 Presents: Know Your Enemy on the 1/6 Insurrection

Tue, 20 Jul 2021 19:30:28 +0000

Feed drop alert again! This week, 5-4 is inviting you to check out an episode of Know Your Enemy. If you like what you hear, subscribe to their feed wherever you get your podcasts. 5-4 will be back with new episodes starting next week.

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Prologue Presents FIASCO: BENGHAZI

Thu, 15 Jul 2021 16:06:58 +0000

Feed drop alert! No new episode of 5-4 this week, so instead please consider checking out the new season of FIASCO, the history podcast from Prologue Projects. This season we're tackling the Benghazi scandal, starting with the rise of Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi and ending with the 2016 election. The episode we're sharing today is the fourth one in the series, in which Mitt Romney's presidential campaign pounces on the Benghazi attack as a political issue before the attack itself was even over. To hear the rest of FIASCO: BENGHAZI, subscribe to the Luminary channel on Apple Podcasts by visiting apple.co/fiasco.

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Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid

Tue, 06 Jul 2021 08:00:26 +0000

You know what's exactly the same? When the government kicks you out of your house so it can build a military base, and when a union organizer gives a farm worker a pamphlet. Or at least that's what the majority of justices on the Supreme Court think, based on the ruling in Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid.

We want to know what you think about 5-4 - give us your feedback on this survey!

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Textualism [TEASER]

Tue, 29 Jun 2021 08:00:58 +0000

The hosts discuss Textualism, the legal theory that the dictionary is the real law, God made the dictionary, and what legislators intended is a secondary consideration at best.

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Fulton v. Philadelphia

Tue, 29 Jun 2021 08:00:52 +0000

In this emergency episode, the hosts discuss one of the spiciest cases from this term, Fulton v. Philadelphia. And you know how conservatives hate spice, so suffice it to say, this holding didn't come out great!

Patreon members got this episode a week ago! To get early access to emergency episodes, access to exclusive events, and membership in the 5-4 Slack, sign up for our Patreon at www.patreon.com/fivefourpod.

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Fulton v. Philadelphia [TEASER]

Tue, 22 Jun 2021 08:00:56 +0000

Patreon members can hear the full episode now, instead of waiting a week! To join, visit www.patreon.com/fivefourpod.

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Meet Nick Wallace

Mon, 21 Jun 2021 08:00:28 +0000

Congrats grads! Our gift to you is an interview with Nick Wallace. Nick is the former Stanford law student who was threatened with having his diploma withheld because the snowflakes in his campus' Federalist Society were triggered.

Our Patreon supporters received this episode a week early. You can get early access, exclusive episodes, membership in the 5-4 Slack, and more too, if you become a member.

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Smith v. Maryland

Tue, 15 Jun 2021 08:00:30 +0000

Warrantless police surveillance of your telephone is A-OK, according to the holding in Smith v. Maryland - as long as the cops only look at WHO you call, not WHAT you say.

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5-4 x Even More News - Abortion Rights

Tue, 08 Jun 2021 08:00:20 +0000

Peter and Rhiannon join Katy Stoll and Cody Johnston from Even More News, to talk about what the Supreme Court's decision to hear a Mississippi abortion ban case means.

Follow Even More News (@somemorenews), Katy Stoll (@katystoll) and Cody Johnston (@drmistercody) on Twitter. They're on Patreon, and so is 5-4. To get premium Patreon-only episodes, access to exclusive events, and membership in the 5-4 Slack, sign up at www.patreon.com/fivefourpod.

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Brett Kavanaugh [TEASER]

Tue, 01 Jun 2021 21:10:47 +0000

The hosts pound some brewskis with Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh.

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Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. v. Dukes

Tue, 25 May 2021 08:00:49 +0000

The hosts discuss a case in which the Supreme Court denied "class" status to female Wal-Mart employees in a gender discrimination class action, proving in this 5-4 decision that boys will be boys.

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Prologue Presents: Celebrity Book Club on Johnnie Cochran

Thu, 20 May 2021 08:00:00 +0000

Hey, remember JOHNNIE COCHRAN? While you wait for next week's episode of 5-4, please enjoy this special feed drop from Celebrity Book Club with Steven and Lily, a new podcast from Prologue Projects in which NYC comedians Steven Phillips-Horst and Lily Marotta take on a different celebrity memoir every week and use it as a canvas for exploring pop culture, the sick 'n' twisted lives of the rich 'n' famous, and their own lifelong friendship. The subject of this week's episode was selected with 5-4 listeners in mind: It's Johnnie Cochran's Journey to Justice, in which the world's most famous lawyer — not including Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael — opens up the briefcase on his life in the law. If you like what you hear, subscribe to Celebrity Book Club with Steven and Lily now.

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Jones v. Mississippi

Tue, 18 May 2021 08:00:15 +0000

The hosts discuss the 8th Amendment and juvenile life without parole, and the tension between modern neuroscience, and the conservative impulse to maintain 200-year-old traditions of punishment.

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Roe v. Wade: The Movie [TEASER]

Tue, 11 May 2021 08:00:43 +0000

In this first-ever 5-4 film review, the hosts have looked into the abyss and are ready to render their verdict.

The full version of this premium episode is available exclusively to our Patreon supporters. To join, visit www.patreon.com/fivefourpod.

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Get Us to Seven feat. Rep. Mondaire Jones

Tue, 04 May 2021 08:00:14 +0000

The hosts are joined by Rep. Mondaire Jones to discuss the Judiciary Act of 2021, Supreme Court reform, and the Biden Commission.

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Bowles v. Russell

Tue, 27 Apr 2021 08:00:25 +0000

The hosts are joined by Josie Duffy Rice and Jay Willis of The Appeal, to discuss "Worst Supreme Court Justice of All Time" bracketology, and simple arithmetic. This week's case is Bowles v. Russell, in which the petitioner sought to have his appeal heard because a judge had miscalculated a deadline, and his lawyer had the audacity to adhere to it. The court denied the petitioner, citing "rules are rules, even when they aren't actually rules."

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The Insular Cases [TEASER]

Tue, 20 Apr 2021 08:00:14 +0000

The hosts discuss the Insular Cases, a series of holdings from 1901 that delineated the Constitutional rights afforded to citizens of US territories like Puerto Rico and the Philippines. And by "delineated" we mean "decimated."

In these cases, and since these cases, the Supreme Court has repeatedly used economic justifications to create and reinforce racist policies that disadvantage and disenfranchise people who live in our country's de facto colonies. Do you love live-fire military exercises, half a millennium of genocidal rule, and not getting to vote in federal elections? Visit scenic Guam!

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Hoffman Plastic Compounds, Inc. v. National Labor Relations Board

Tue, 13 Apr 2021 08:00:10 +0000

The hosts discuss Hoffman Plastic Compounds, Inc. v. National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), a 5-4 decision in which the Supreme Court denied a worker back pay that he was owed after being unlawfully terminated for union organizing, citing his lack of authorization to work in the United States. The decision completely rejected the ruling of the NLRB, guidance from the Department of Justice, standing immigration law, and basic human decency.

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5-4 x Even More News

Tue, 06 Apr 2021 08:00:26 +0000

The hosts appear on Even More News, with hosts Katy Stoll and Cody Johnston, to talk about voting rights cases at the Supreme Court, and H.R.1.

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Connick v. Thompson

Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:00:13 +0000

The hosts discuss Connick v. Thompson, a 5-4 decision in which the Supreme Court holds that a conspiracy to convict an innocent man, by systematically withholding evidence that could prove his innocence, does not constitute a "pattern." Where's your dictionary now, Scalia?

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The Worst of the Worst: The Trump Judges [TEASER]

Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:00:27 +0000

The hosts discuss Trump's appointees to the federal bench, and the effects that this rogue's gallery of cronies has had - and will continue to have - on the judiciary.

Follow Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon) and Michael (@_FleerUltra) on Twitter.

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Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky Inc. v. Williams

Tue, 16 Mar 2021 08:00:56 +0000

The hosts discuss Toyota Motor Manufacturing v. Williams,where the Supreme Court unanimously narrowed the definition of disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Thanks to Erin Hawley (@geekygimp) for her help prepping this episode.

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San Antonio ISD v. Rodriguez ft. Alec Karakatsanis

Tue, 09 Mar 2021 09:00:33 +0000

The hosts are joined by Alec Karakatsanis (@equalityAlec), founder and executive director of Civil Rights Corps, and the author of Usual Cruelty: The Complicity of Lawyers in the Criminal Injustice System. They discuss San Antonio ISD v Rodriguez, an equal protection case from 1973, which is widely cited by conservatives as holding that the equal protection clause does not protect impoverished people. The hosts beg to differ.

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Antonin Scalia [TEASER]

Tue, 02 Mar 2021 08:59:13 +0000

Here's a taste of what Patreon supporters get! In this episode, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) discuss former Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia.

To get the full episode, sign up for our Patreon.

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McCleskey v. Kemp ft. Josie Duffy Rice

Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:00:12 +0000

The hosts are joined by Josie Duffy Rice of The Appeal to discuss another death penalty case — McCleskey v. Kemp. In this 1987 decision, the Supreme Court held that statistical evidence of systemic racial disparities is not enough to prove discrimination. Instead, defendants have to show that individual prosecutors, judges or juries pursued them with racist intent. As a result, states were basically let off the hook for perpetuating systemic racism in death penalty cases.

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Atkins v. Virginia

Tue, 16 Feb 2021 09:00:33 +0000

The hosts discuss Atkins v. Virginia, a case in which the Supreme Court held that it is unconstitutional to impose the death penalty on people with intellectual disabilities. But the Court also created a loophole by allowing states to decide the standard for who qualifies as intellectually disabled. As a result of the Court’s lack of clarity, some states have continued to execute people with intellectual disabilities to this day.

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US v. Morrison

Tue, 09 Feb 2021 09:00:32 +0000

The hosts discuss a case in which the Supreme Court struck down a provision of the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) that allowed women to sue abusers in federal court for damages. In the process, the Court constrained the ability of Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not only weakening an important civil rights law, but also making it more difficult for Congress to pass progressive legislation going forward.

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Navarette v. California

Tue, 02 Feb 2021 09:00:03 +0000

Your hosts discuss Navarette v. California, which held that an unverified anonymous tip about reckless driving could be sufficient grounds for the police to pull over a car. The case exemplifies how deferential the Supreme Court is to police power, and has resulted in an increased reliance on anonymous tips by the cops, and a corresponding erosion of citizens’ privacy rights.

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Morse v. Frederick

Tue, 26 Jan 2021 09:00:56 +0000

In 2002, a student held up a banner that said “Bong Hits 4 Jesus” at an Olympic torch relay, in full view of his classmates and teachers. When he was suspended, he claimed his banner was protected free speech under the First Amendment. The Supreme Court disagreed. In this episode, your hosts discuss the contours of student free speech, the Court’s puritanical moralizing on marijuana, and the importance of absurdist speech in creating real change.

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The Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 2

Tue, 19 Jan 2021 09:00:03 +0000

In the second part of a two-episode series on abortion rights, the hosts discuss Planned Parenthood v. Casey, a 1992 case in which the Supreme Court made it easier for states to restrict abortion access so long as abortion regulations don’t create an “undue burden.” The vague standard set lawmakers on a new path of attacking abortion access and fueled anti-abortion groups’ efforts to spread stigma and misinformation, setting up Roe v. Wade for a death by a thousand cuts.

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The Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 1

Tue, 12 Jan 2021 09:00:53 +0000

The hosts take on one of the Supreme Court’s most famous decisions, Roe v. Wade. In this first episode of a two-part series, they look at the legal and factual origins of Roe v. Wade. They also discuss how Roe was weaponized by the conservative legal movement to rally against an interpretation of the Constitution that allows for flexibility in favor of a far more rigid approach.

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5-4 x Know Your Enemy

Tue, 29 Dec 2020 09:00:10 +0000

Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael join the hosts of the podcast Know Your Enemy for a conversation about the conservative legal movement. They discuss the origins of conservative doctrines like originalism and textualism, and the rise of the Federalist Society from a small group of conservative students and academics to an organization whose members constitute the majority of the Supreme Court.

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Herrera v. Collins

Tue, 15 Dec 2020 09:00:25 +0000

The hosts take on a 1993 death penalty case that has been called one of the worst decisions in capital punishment jurisprudence. Herrera v. Collins asks whether someone on death row can have new evidence of their innocence reviewed in federal habeas corpus proceedings, often the last resort for someone who has exhausted their appeals. In a 6-to-3 vote, the Court rejected the claim, barely shying away from holding that the Constitution does not protect against an innocent person being executed.

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Roman Catholic Diocese v. Cuomo

Tue, 08 Dec 2020 09:00:46 +0000

The hosts discuss Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn v. Cuomo, a recent case about COVID-19-related restrictions on religious gatherings. In it, the Supreme Court struck down hard capacity caps on religious gatherings in high-risk areas. The case has already spawned more challenges to pandemic-related restrictions on religious gatherings and likely foreshadows the expansion of legal exemptions for religious groups.

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Ashcroft v. Iqbal

Tue, 01 Dec 2020 09:00:01 +0000

The hosts discuss Ashcroft v. Iqbal, a 2008 case in which the Court created a new pleading standard for legal complaints that made it much harder for plaintiffs to bring their cases. Here, a Pakistani immigrant who claimed he was detained and tortured in the wake of 9/11 had his case dismissed because, according to the Court, his allegations that Bush administration officials were responsible for his treatment were not “plausible.”

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Arizona Free Enterprise v. Bennett

Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:05:00 +0000

The hosts return to examining cases with a little-known campaign finance decision from 2011: Arizona Free Enterprise Club PAC v. Bennett. They discuss the Supreme Court’s ruling, which declared unconstitutional a matching funds program for political candidates who opt out of private fundraising, effectively killing public campaign financing. The hosts also talk about the Trump campaign’s ongoing efforts -- in the courts and otherwise -- to contest the results of the 2020 election, and how likely they are to affect the Biden victory.

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The Courts Can’t Save Him

Tue, 10 Nov 2020 08:00:00 +0000

The hosts look back at the week-long presidential election, which Joe Biden won. They discuss the challenges mounted by the Trump campaign in various states and explain why none of them is likely to change the outcome of the election. They also reflect on some state-level initiatives and put forth their strategy for how President Biden should deal with a split Senate, especially on matters pertaining to the Supreme Court.

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Reliving Bush v. Gore

Tue, 03 Nov 2020 08:05:00 +0000

The hosts reflect on a string of cases pertaining to the coming election, discuss the legacy of Bush v. Gore, and the significance of Justice Kavanaugh recently citing Justice Rehnquist’s infamous concurrence in the case. They then replay their original analysis of the 2000 election case that put George W. Bush in the White House.

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How to Fix the Court feat. Rep. Ro Khanna

Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:00:00 +0000

The hosts discuss options for reforming the court — from court packing, to term limits for judges, to stripping the court of jurisdiction to hear cases pertaining to new laws. They also speak to Congressman Ro Khanna about court reform, and about the bill he has introduced to limit Supreme Court Justices' tenure. But they remain clear on their preferred option: packing the court to include more liberal justices.

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Rucho v. Common Cause

Tue, 20 Oct 2020 07:30:00 +0000

The hosts reflect on the Amy Coney Barrett confirmation hearings, then move on to discussing gerrymandering, the practice of drawing up voting districts to favor a particular political party. Specifically, they talk about Rucho v. Common Cause, a 2019 case in which the Supreme Court not only refused to rule on two states’ gerrymandered maps, they found all partisan gerrymandering to be outside the purview of the Court going forward.

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The Electoral College Coup Is Coming

Tue, 13 Oct 2020 07:05:00 +0000

The hosts discuss the past, present, and future of the Electoral College, and all the ways it could be used to stage a procedural coup in the upcoming election. They also talk about how the Electoral College could be restructured to give greater representation to states with large populations, like California. But if it were up to them, they’d get rid of this undemocratic institution all together, and switch to a system in which the president is chosen by popular vote.

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“What if Trump Dies?” And Other Questions

Tue, 06 Oct 2020 07:00:00 +0000

The hosts discuss the recent news that Donald Trump has contracted COVID-19 and what implications it might have for the upcoming election and the Supreme Court. Then they answer listener questions, covering everything from court reform to how to decide if you should go to law school.

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Amy Coney Barrett is a Right Wing Freak

Tue, 29 Sep 2020 07:00:00 +0000

The hosts talk about Amy Coney Barrett, who has been nominated to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the Supreme Court. They discuss the nominee's judicial record, her faith, and what it means to be nominated by President Trump at this time.

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What RBG Didn't Understand

Mon, 21 Sep 2020 16:05:46 +0000

On this week's episode of 5-4, Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael are discussing the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Specifically, the hosts talk about the consequences of RBG's decision not to step down from the Court during Barack Obama's presidency, what that decision tells us about her, and what lies ahead.

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LA v. Lyons

Tue, 15 Sep 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael are talking about police use of chokeholds. In 1983, the Supreme Court held in City of Los Angeles v. Lyons that a man who had been injured by a brutal police chokehold did not have standing to sue for an injunction—in other words, he could not ask the Court to order the police to stop using chokeholds. The Court’s decision allowed the practice to continue, and chokeholds have been a focus of police reform efforts and protests since then, particularly after the 2014 death of Eric Garner.

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Voting Rights

Tue, 08 Sep 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael are discussing the right to vote. As the 2020 presidential election draws near, the Trump campaign has already started suing states over the use of mail-in ballots. The hosts talk through the basics of election law history and explain how individual citizens' right to vote is only sort of provided for in the Constitution.

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Flood v. Kuhn

Tue, 01 Sep 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy) and Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon) are joined by their friend Adam to discuss the 1972 case that exempted professional baseball from antitrust law.

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Nielsen v. Preap

Tue, 25 Aug 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about the 2019 case that denied immigrants who have committed certain crimes the right to a bond hearing, and illustrated the futility of objectively interpreting the law.

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Boy Scouts of America v. Dale

Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about the 2000 case that allowed Boy Scouts to discriminate against gay scout leaders.

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Milliken v. Bradley

Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and special guest Leon Neyfakh (@Leoncrawl) discuss the 1974 case that effectively ended school desegregation efforts.

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Term Recap: 2019-2020

Tue, 04 Aug 2020 07:30:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) look back at the most recent Supreme Court term.

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Bennis v. Michigan

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about civil forfeiture, the practice that lets police seize private property if it’s suspected of being involved in a crime.

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Epic Systems v. Lewis

Tue, 14 Jul 2020 09:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) discuss a decision that let employers pressure workers into signing away their rights to class action suits.

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Buckley v. Valeo

Tue, 07 Jul 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about campaign finance in Buckley v. Valeo. The decision established that, when it comes to elections, money is speech based on the First Amendment.

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Janus v. AFSCME

Tue, 30 Jun 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) are joined by special guest Sam Bagenstos, professor at the University of Michigan Law School, to discuss a case that made it harder for unions to collect fees.

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Qualified Immunity

Tue, 23 Jun 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) examine the doctrine of qualified immunity, which protects police and other officials from being sued for civil rights and other abuses.

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Exxon Shipping v. Baker

Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) discuss a decision that limited damages in the case of the Exxon Valdez oil spill, one of the worst environmental disasters in US history. The ruling also capped damages that can be sought in all maritime law cases.

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Bostock v. Clayton County, Georgia

Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:30:00 +0000

On this week’s bonus episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about the Court’s surprise decision affirming that the Civil Rights Act prevents employers from discriminating against people on the basis of their gender identity or sexual orientation. The hosts pay special attention to Justice Alito’s special dissent.

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Hernandez v. Mesa

Tue, 09 Jun 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about a case involving a Border Patrol agent who shot a teenager across the U.S.-Mexico border. The hosts are joined by Steven Vladeck, who argued the case before the Supreme Court on behalf of the victim’s family.

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Burwell v. Hobby Lobby

Tue, 02 Jun 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about the religious freedoms enjoyed by corporations.

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Buck v. Bell

Tue, 26 May 2020 07:30:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) go back to a 1927 case that gave rise to eugenics programs throughout the US.

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Tison v. Arizona

Tue, 19 May 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) discuss a 1987 case on felony murder, and whether it’s eligible for the death penalty.

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Clapper v. Amnesty International

Tue, 12 May 2020 07:30:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) discuss a 2013 case that tested the National Security Administration's ability to conduct surveillance on Americans without probable cause.

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The Biden Court

Tue, 05 May 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On this week’s episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) discuss what’s at stake for the Supreme Court in the 2020 election, and what the Court might look like under Joe Biden.

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DC v. Heller

Tue, 28 Apr 2020 07:00:00 +0000

On the eleventh episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) discuss the 2008 ruling that granted individuals the right to own guns, breaking with more than a century of precedent.

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Kelo v. New London

Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:30:00 +0000

On the tenth episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) take aim at the liberals on the Court who ruled that the government can seize people’s land and hand it over to private developers.

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Castle Rock v. Gonzales

Tue, 14 Apr 2020 07:30:00 +0000

On the ninth episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about a domestic violence case in Colorado that led to the death of three children and a Supreme Court ruling that affirmed a broad vision of police discretion.

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Emergency Episode: RNC v. DNC

Wed, 08 Apr 2020 16:45:00 +0000

On a special episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about the Supreme Court’s decision to block the state of Wisconsin from accepting late absentee ballots in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic.

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Trump v. Hawaii

Tue, 07 Apr 2020 07:30:00 +0000

On the seventh episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about the 2018 travel ban case, which tested the Supreme Court’s willingness to serve as a check on Donald Trump.

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NFIB v. Sebelius

Tue, 31 Mar 2020 07:30:00 +0000

On the sixth episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) take on the Obamacare ruling in 2012, which isn’t as great as ACA fans might think.

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Terry v. Ohio

Tue, 24 Mar 2020 07:30:00 +0000

On the fifth episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about the 1968 ruling by the Warren Court that that paved the way for stop-and-frisk laws around the country.

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Shelby County v. Holder

Tue, 17 Mar 2020 13:15:00 +0000

On the fourth episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about the 2013 ruling by the Roberts Court that defanged a key component of the Voting Rights Act.

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Fisher v. University of Texas

Tue, 10 Mar 2020 07:30:00 +0000

On the third episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra) talk about the affirmative action case that flipped the Equal Protection Clause on its head.

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Citizens United v. FEC

Tue, 03 Mar 2020 08:30:00 +0000

On the second episode of 5-4, Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra), talk about the 2010 ruling that used the First Amendment as a basis for unleashing corporate spending in politics.

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Bush v. Gore

Tue, 25 Feb 2020 08:30:00 +0000

The debut episode of 5-4, presented by Leon Neyfakh (@leoncrawl) and hosted by Peter (@The_Law_Boy), Rhiannon (@AywaRhiannon), and Michael (@_FleerUltra), focuses on the ruling that ended the 2000 Florida recount and put George W. Bush in the White House.

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Official Trailer: 5-4

Tue, 04 Feb 2020 20:26:00 +0000

At a moment when the U.S. Supreme Court's influence on American life has never been more obvious, 5-4 offers an irreverent take on the high court's past. Each episode focuses on a pivotal, historical case in which the justices screwed up in some way. 5-4 balances humor with analysis as legal commentators Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael dissect the legal reasoning and practical outcomes of the Court's most questionable and misguided decisions. Slow Burn co-creator Leon Neyfakh narrates the facts and historical context around the case-of-the-week.

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