For the Sentinel, protection isn't just about a life insurance policy; it’s about being the primary influence in your child’s life. It’s about being there for the small conversations that shape a big future. But in today’s economy, how do you come home without losing your edge? How do you build an empire from your kitchen table without the house falling apart around you?

Tony Berardo is a strategist, an entrepreneur, and a father who refused to accept the 'Standard Trade-Off.' He’s leading a movement of men who are reclaiming their Domestic Sovereignty—dads who are building businesses, scaling empires, and staying rooted in their homes. He’s here to show us that the 'Front Line' of leadership isn't in a corner office; it’s right through your own front door.

Learn more about Tony Berardo and find his content here: https://theberardo.com/

Connect personally with Tony here: https://www.instagram.com/theberardo/

To be a guest on The Fatherhood Challenge visit: https://podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

00:03.67

Jonathan Guerrero

We are raised with a single driving mission, provide. We're told that being a man means being the one who goes out, slays the dragon, and brings the meat back to the cave. We sacrifice our sleep, our health, and our best hours to cor to the court to climb the corporate ladder. all in the name of giving our families a better life. But there is the provider paradox. We work so hard to provide for our families that we eventually become strangers to them. We trade our presents for a paycheck and our children grow up without a father who is the provider in the bank.

00:39.37

Jonathan Guerrero

who's the provider in the bank account, but a ghost at the dinner table. For the Sentinel, protection isn't just about a life insurance policy. It's about being the primary influence in your child's life. It's about being there for the small conversations that shape the big future. But in today's economy, how do you provide and how do you come home without losing your edge?

01:00.25

Jonathan Guerrero

How do you build an empire for your kitchen table without those without the house falling apart around you? My guest is going to join the conversation with some answers in just a moment, so don't go anywhere.

01:32.91

Tony Berardo

Thank

01:54.56

Jonathan Guerrero

Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me and my son and co-host Isaac. Thank you everybody. Welcome the Fatherhood Channel. Joining our conversation is Tony Berardo. Tony is a strategist, an entrepreneur, and a father who refused to accept standard the standard trade-off. He's leading a movement of men who are reclaiming their domestic sovereignty, dads who are building businesses, scaling empires, and staying rooted in their homes.

02:20.40

Jonathan Guerrero

He's here to show us that the front line of leadership isn't a corner office. It's right through your own front door. Tony, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.

02:30.43

Tony Berardo

What's up, guys? Thanks for having me on.

02:32.66

Jonathan Guerrero

Okay, so here is my favorite question. What's your favorite dad joke?

02:37.85

Tony Berardo

Well, i don't know if it's a dad joke, but I've been teaching of my daughter, and she's two and a half, and she cracks up every time I do it. ah So it's knock-knock.

02:46.45

Jonathan Guerrero

Who's there?

02:47.50

Tony Berardo

Banana.

02:48.53

Jonathan Guerrero

Banana who?

02:50.12

Tony Berardo

Knock-knock.

02:51.82

Jonathan Guerrero

Who's there?

02:53.00

Tony Berardo

Banana.

02:54.42

Jonathan Guerrero

Banana who?

02:55.92

Tony Berardo

Knock-knock.

02:57.70

Jonathan Guerrero

Who's there?

02:58.84

Tony Berardo

Orange.

03:00.15

Jonathan Guerrero

Orange.

03:01.58

Tony Berardo

Orange, you're glad I didn't say banana.

03:01.69

Jonathan Guerrero

Orange who?

03:06.78

Tony Berardo

It's so stupid, but it's great.

03:09.43

Jonathan Guerrero

You should see Isaac's face.

03:15.00

Tony Berardo

Yeah, I'll think of a better one next time, but that's so what that's what I got for you now.

03:15.18

Jonathan Guerrero

He's got his...

03:18.79

Jonathan Guerrero

He's got his hands buried in his face.

03:21.18

Tony Berardo

So stupid. That's not even a dad joke. I just call it a horrible joke. It's the, a but yeah, yeah.

03:24.82

Jonathan Guerrero

it That is a dad joke.

03:28.29

Tony Berardo

The kid loves it. That's what's important, right?

03:31.99

Jonathan Guerrero

oh Thanks for sharing that. Now, actually have something.

03:34.76

Tony Berardo

No, thanks for moving along with me. i appreciate it. Sorry, I saw you had to hear that, Isaac.

03:38.29

Jonathan Guerrero

What

03:38.90

Tony Berardo

Yeah.

03:41.41

Jonathan Guerrero

were you going to say?

03:41.75

Tony Berardo

Yeah.

03:43.06

Jonathan Guerrero

So... hearing After hearing the intro, like, that was actually, like... I can relate to that, like, very similarly.

03:51.06

Tony Berardo

yeah

03:51.54

Jonathan Guerrero

Because, like... and't even like I didn't even, like, really like get to, like, see my dad every day until i was, like, five or six years old. And that's because he was in... You've heard it said... If you've been with the Fatherhood Challenge for a little bit now, you wouldn you would know for these past three episodes that he literally was driving a truck every single night. So every every night, all night. So he was basically... so he was all He was sleeping all day.

04:18.97

Tony Berardo

Wow.

04:19.48

Jonathan Guerrero

And while every other dad got to out and play with their kids, like, my dad was just sleeping.

04:19.86

Tony Berardo

That's crazy.

04:23.70

Jonathan Guerrero

So, in other words, his his sleeping cycle and the way he slept was basically entirely in reverse. He would drive all night and he'd sleep all day.

04:33.96

Tony Berardo

That's crazy.

04:34.36

Jonathan Guerrero

and he And he loved it, too, but I barely even knew the guy at the time. Because, like, I barely even had a chance to talk to him, see him, or play catch with him or anything.

04:44.90

Tony Berardo

That's how are you now, Isaac, if you don't mind me asking?

04:45.02

Jonathan Guerrero

So, I'm 11. I'm 11.

04:48.41

Tony Berardo

eleven yeah 11. Yeah. Yeah. yeah And those are, I mean, thanks thanks for sharing that, man.

04:49.59

Jonathan Guerrero

So yeah.

04:51.29

Tony Berardo

Those are key. ah Those are key moments, I think, in a kid's life. And, you know, my dad was the same way. I mean, shout out to to Jonathan. I mean, shout out to, you know, he's just being a good father, right? Just trying to provide. And I think it's, ah you know, I'm i'm almost 41.

05:04.12

Tony Berardo

forty one So like my father was the same way. My dad worked his butt off for, man, enough pretty much my entire childhood, three jobs at some point. But, uh, he was working at a place called Piggly Wiggly, which i don't even think they're around anymore, but it's, uh, it's an older grocery store and he was, you know, the night guy.

05:23.03

Tony Berardo

So he'd spend a little bit of time with me and then usually he's out after dinner and then I wouldn't see him until like the next afternoon. Right. Um, and then he would go to like another job.

05:30.49

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah.

05:31.91

Tony Berardo

Sometimes he would come in and, and hang out with me and watch me while my mom worked. So it was a lot of back and forth. And I think it's a cool time in our lives because we can do a lot of things thanks to technology that we're able to either work from home, have a remote job or do some side hustles or figure out ways to be able to spend time with our kids. Because I think we've been fed this pipe dream of like the American dream is work your butt off for 20 hours a day as your dad.

05:59.51

Tony Berardo

You don't spend time with the kid, but it's okay. Mom will take care of her. Right? Mom will take care of the kids. Don't worry about it. You're good. You don't need to be a present father. Kids don't need dads. That's just a silly thing. Right? But that's what we've kind of been told for decades. So.

06:15.48

Jonathan Guerrero

Well, Tony, I know that you have an amazing story and you're you're a full-time successful entrepreneur, you're a content creator, digital marketer, and a podcaster for brands and creators now, but that's not where you started. Take us back to the beginning of your story.

06:33.08

Tony Berardo

Yeah, I mean, the um the short story of it, kind of an origin story, if I was a superhero, would be, you know, I worked at like a ah a movie theater as one of my first gigs.

06:45.34

Tony Berardo

um I was, I think, 15 or 16 at the time.

06:46.09

Jonathan Guerrero

Good start.

06:48.31

Tony Berardo

And I really enjoyed like talking to people, you know, like I was in the back of the counters and I always kind of had like a good personality to talk to people. So um I really enjoyed that aspect of it.

06:59.64

Tony Berardo

And then I realized like as I was getting older, I was there for a couple of years and I got promoted to supervisor, which was like a whole 25 cent raise. So it was very exciting. um And then I was like, well, this is cool and everything, but what can I do for my career? I know I want to do something and like dealing with people, talk with people one-on-one. What can I do? And next to the movie theater where I lived was in LA Fitness, which is a health club.

07:22.14

Tony Berardo

And I was always kind of big into working out at the time I was wrestling in high school. So i was like, maybe i could do something like as a trainer or maybe some sales. So I ended up starting in sales there and then eventually moved um to being a personal trainer where I was coaching people one-on-one.

07:38.84

Tony Berardo

But then you're also marketing yourself, right? Because we would go... door to door around like the businesses and neighborhoods and we would pass out our business cards and flyers trying to get people to come in right to the gym.

07:52.12

Tony Berardo

So it's kind of cool because there was a more interaction. That was my first taste of like marketing. If I had to put it in quotes, it's direct marketing, right? It's face to face. It's boots to the ground, grunt work.

08:02.87

Tony Berardo

And then you fast forward about 10 years later through that time, I really tried a lot of different careers. One of them, I ended up working for some Fortune 500 companies like Coca-Cola and Monster Energy, which was probably one of the greatest gigs ever.

08:15.80

Tony Berardo

ah But that was all sales and marketing. And I ended up, you know, going high level up into Monster Energy, working for the marketing department. And um during this time, I was like, well, this is cool, but I'm not really big into energy drinks or soda. Like I was never into that type of stuff.

08:32.54

Tony Berardo

So on the side during the weekends, I would have this little content side hustle where I would like make videos for brands and what what's called UGC. So user generated content, which is kind of like you can think of it like a brand would ship you you know um I'm just going to use because I'm using this microphone, the microphone Shure which is a company S-H-U-R-E. Let's say they send you the microphone and they're like hey Tony I want you to do like a review for us, a video review and we're going to put on our social media and we'll pay you X amount of dollars. We'll give you a free microphone so on and so forth.

09:07.45

Tony Berardo

So I started doing a lot of that and I really enjoyed it because We all like stuff, right? But why not get free stuff and make a testimonial about it and get paid for it? So I always wanted to kind of do something in like and in that aspect with brands and doing that on ah on a side hustle for about a year.

09:26.20

Tony Berardo

I really started enjoying it. Well, glad I did it because I ended up getting laid off at one of my jobs and I had a couple of health scares that kind of put me in check a little bit.

09:38.29

Tony Berardo

um I won't go too deep into that. People can listen to my podcast if they want to check it out, but I don't want to keep it too depressing here. But I i ended up having a tumor in my lung. Thank goodness it wasn't cancerous, but they had to remove a portion of my right lung.

09:52.18

Tony Berardo

So through a lot of recovery and a long effort, um my wife and I had some mental struggles as you could imagine. And during this time, we're trying to have a baby and conceive and you know we're stressed out and financially and you know all this stuff. So um that's why I was like, you know what?

10:10.12

Tony Berardo

I'm already doing the side hustle thing. Let me go all in on this content business. And fast forward four years later, now here I am. I've been doing the content agency ever since where we specialize in creating content for brands. We also, i have a group of guys and gals that help me manage social media for brands.

10:29.14

Tony Berardo

So like, let's say if you're a business and you need help with your social media, we do everything from coming up with content ideas to generating scripts and filming and editing and posting and literally the whole gambit, Instagram, TikTok, or TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook, we do everything.

10:45.98

Tony Berardo

So I've been doing that for four years and loving every minute of it because now, you know, like I said, my daughter's two and a half and I've been able to spend every single moment with her. I haven't missed her first steps. I haven't missed her first words.

10:57.75

Tony Berardo

I haven't missed anything. And it's the greatest decision I've ever done for sure.

11:02.55

Jonathan Guerrero

And it sounds like a dream job because you're doing things that you're really passionate about. Like you get to work with technology brands like Shure. ah That's really, really cool.

11:12.90

Jonathan Guerrero

From podcaster to podcaster, most most podcasters like us are are what we call gear snobs.

11:13.32

Tony Berardo

Yeah.

11:19.42

Jonathan Guerrero

So we love to

11:21.54

Tony Berardo

That's right.

11:22.39

Jonathan Guerrero

we love to get into the weeds about that.

11:22.62

Tony Berardo

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. but I've had the opportunity to work with some big brands and, you know, over time it, it kind of grew right once you work with a couple of small brands and then you build a portfolio and then you can send these out to specific brands like these bigger companies and show them these, all these brands that you have worked with. So it took years to develop a good portfolio with some big brands, but you know, now i'm very lucky because I've been able to work with even road mic.

11:50.01

Tony Berardo

You know, if you, if you're familiar with road microphones on the road caster.

11:52.60

Jonathan Guerrero

Oh, I love Rode. Yeah, Rode makes really, really good stuff.

11:53.88

Tony Berardo

Yeah. Oh yeah.

11:56.57

Jonathan Guerrero

If I wasn't using what I was using now, I'd probably go to Rode.

11:56.83

Tony Berardo

I've worked with i work with them. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And I've worked with ah Westinghouse and New Tonic, Rise Mushroom Coffee. i mean, I've probably worked with a hundred different brands. So it's it's been great. And it's, you know, it's not something I want to do forever, which is why i actually started my own apparel brand, which, you know, we could talk about if you want. But i ah I decided, hey, with the growth of social media, this is a good gig to have now, but it might not be here forever.

12:25.98

Tony Berardo

um who knows where AI is going to take this thing. So I always am trying to be one step ahead of things and not put all my eggs in one basket and just kind of pivot and figure out what I'm passionate about and stick in the moment, you know?

12:37.78

Jonathan Guerrero

Well, let's talk about that. Let's back up a little bit. So you do have your apparel brand. What I'm really interested in is the fact that you have a you have a diversification strategy, so you're not putting your income in one basket. I think that's really smart.

12:53.95

Tony Berardo

Oh, thanks. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it was a definitely a conscious decision for sure, because I've always been um kind of in these situations where like it was before where I did get laid off, but I already had income coming in from my side hustle. So i'm like, I need to keep that going. And then, you know, even before that I've, I've dipped into real estate and um you know, even working a full-time job, I would have properties and,

13:20.67

Tony Berardo

I would manage them myself. So I would have renters come in and I would manage all that myself. And, you sometimes this was at a state where I would have different renters and stuff. So it was, it's always kind of been like a quest of mine to make sure I'm always one step ahead because nothing's secure, right? Nothing's guaranteed. Even if you work for yourself, you don't know if your business going to make it. You don't know if your podcast is going to make it. You don't know if You're going to be at your job at Kroger or Publix.

13:47.44

Tony Berardo

Like you can get laid off any moment. So I always wanted to have a backup plan and a source of income.

13:50.08

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah.

13:52.20

Tony Berardo

And I knew when I became a father, i always wanted to start my apparel brand. Like we'll start when I had my podcast. When i first did my podcast, I was like, I want to do apparel brand. I just didn't really have like an idea of what I wanted to do.

14:04.12

Tony Berardo

um But then once I became a father, I was like, yeah. wait a minute, what if I do like some cool dad apparel, like something that hasn't been done before? Because there's a lot of dad brands out there and dad hats and all of them are good. I mean, John, you probably got some of them. I got some of myself, but they're not bad, you know, but i there was one thing I noticed, which was they're all the same.

14:28.25

Tony Berardo

You know, like, I don't want to call out any brands in particular, but they all have, like, cursive fonts. And they're all, they all look the same. They're the same colors.

14:39.27

Jonathan Guerrero

That's actually very true.

14:39.66

Tony Berardo

that' It's very true. I mean, there's I could think of four brands right now that they literally have the exact same font. And I'm like... What can I do that's different?

14:51.13

Tony Berardo

And then i really started like putting together a a bunch of ideas with some, some other dads and we were like, what's missing? And we started kind of going down the line and it's like, there's some stuff that is good for dad that work out. And then there's some stuff that are good for dads that like go golfing.

15:09.18

Tony Berardo

Okay. Well, why don't we do something in between? Why don't we just make our hats available to You can go out to brunch with them or you can go on the golf course or you can work out with them. Why don't we make them breathable and they look good within the outfit? Why don't we just do that instead of having these 10 different hats, one good for working out, one good for golf? don't we just make one so that way dads don't have to waste the whole fortune buying a bunch of hats when one them will do, right?

15:35.32

Tony Berardo

And...

15:35.29

Jonathan Guerrero

And that's really true. Like we dads are very busy.

15:36.57

Tony Berardo

Yeah.

15:37.53

Jonathan Guerrero

Like we don't have time to, as they say, accessorize and go you know, we don't have time for that. Yeah. We just want to grab something and hope it looks good and go out the door and, and be fine.

15:44.30

Tony Berardo

That's right.

15:50.03

Tony Berardo

That's it. Yeah. So that was step one. So I think we mastered that with our our polyester cotton blend. It's very breathable and you can wear it in Minnesota and you can wear it in Florida. Like no matter what time of year, it's going to look good and feel good. And, um you know, the other thing for us was like messaging, like how do we want to come across?

16:06.39

Tony Berardo

And, you know, you got to you got your kit on, so I won't go too vulgar. But I will say there's no dad brands out there that curse. which I find fascinating because like if you're a dad, at least me, yeah if I stub my toe in a Lego, I'm cursing.

16:23.42

Tony Berardo

Like that's real life, right? So ah we want to instill that in our messaging and in our brand. So that's when we came up with human dad. And the whole idea is you're only human.

16:34.70

Tony Berardo

You're not going to be the perfect dad. You're not going to be perfect mom. You're not the perfect parent. You're never going to figure this dad thing out. Just like as a kid, you ain't going to figure this thing out. You're going learn as you go. And that's where we kind of came up with the idea of,

16:47.90

Tony Berardo

You're human first, you're dad always. So as long as you continue to think to yourself that you are human and you're going to make mistakes, hopefully that relieves a little pressure from yourself.

16:58.68

Tony Berardo

And that's why we call it a human dad because when you put on the hat, now you're part of a community of dads that we know were imperfect. And that's the beauty of being a father is we embrace the imperfections.

17:12.34

Tony Berardo

So that's our messaging. That's our core. And we're just striving to kind of be the the liquid death of dad apparel. We want to break the dad apparel market and and just get out that way. And I think we're doing i think we're doing pretty well so far. i mean, we've only been going for about seven months.

17:28.38

Tony Berardo

um We just got our first international sale last week. So that was exciting. But we we continue to grow and expand and we're just hoping that we build this community of dads that um come to our site for knowledge, for tips, ah for relatability. And then of course having some really cool swag in the process.

17:47.45

Jonathan Guerrero

For the dad sitting in the cubicle today who feels the pull to be present, what is the sovereignty strategy? how does he How does he practically build that bridge from a nine to five to being home and building an empire without putting his family's security at risk?

18:04.34

Tony Berardo

good question. Well, I think you got to you got to live by this motto, which this is what I live by, which is the hustle culture is cool until your kids stop asking to play with you.

18:19.58

Tony Berardo

So that's the eye opener for me. It's like, you yeah, I mean, you can keep doing your thing, man, and keep hustling and work your butt off and

18:21.55

Jonathan Guerrero

I got to let that one sink in.

18:29.69

Tony Berardo

you know, work till 530, even though you clock out at five, you could do all that. But eventually your kid's going to say, dad, and it's okay. I'll play by myself. That one's going to hurt, bro. So, I mean, ah I don't know. I mean, our job's important. Of course, I'm not saying to quit your job and be unemployed and hang out with your kid.

18:48.34

Tony Berardo

But at the same time, like i think as dads and parents in general, we need a reevaluate how we spend our time. And at least for me, just speaking from experience is,

18:59.09

Tony Berardo

I was spending a lot of money on stupid stuff, right? So if you look at your monthly bills and you're, don't know, going to Starbucks every other day and you have 15 streaming services, right? And you have two cars, but you really could get away with having one vehicle in the household.

19:17.11

Tony Berardo

Like all these little things, we're talking hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month you could save if you eliminate that stuff. Well, what does that mean? Well, you eliminate it So you don't have any more. No big deal. It might suck for a little bit. But here's the good news. Now you don't have to work a lot because you're not spending as much.

19:36.73

Tony Berardo

See, everyone wants to blame their job not paying you enough, but you have the new iPhone.

19:39.88

Jonathan Guerrero

yep

19:43.22

Tony Berardo

Your fault.

19:44.89

Jonathan Guerrero

yep

19:45.77

Tony Berardo

It's all your fault. So fix that crap. don't Don't live in the big house that you spent $300,000 on and then now your mortgage is whatever, $2,500 and then your AC bill is $400 a month and all. Downsize. Get an apartment. Who cares?

20:02.87

Tony Berardo

A lot of people don't realize like even if you work out of your house, you're only going there to have dinner and sleep. Let's pump the brakes. Let's not think so materialistically. Let's, you know, nothing's guaranteed in this planet. Like the next day you might not wake up.

20:19.26

Tony Berardo

Right? So who cares about your house? Why don't we worry about the time that we spend with our family? And I think that's the big misnomer from people is you're working so hard to get all this cool stuff.

20:30.17

Tony Berardo

But if you ask anybody on their deathbed what they regret the most, it is by anonymous, unanimous, excuse me. It is unanimous that every single person on their deathbed says, I wish that I hung out with my family more.

20:45.94

Tony Berardo

Every person. So what does that tell you?

20:47.96

Jonathan Guerrero

Okay.

20:50.58

Jonathan Guerrero

Okay, so here's the next question that a dad who's on the fence might be thinking, how do you maintain a professional edge when your workspace is like 10 feet from the playroom? And what are your tactical rules for switching from CEO to dad without carrying the stress of a deadline into the game of catch?

21:08.28

Tony Berardo

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, we're lucky in my household because we made a point when my wife got pregnant that we ensured that her job was able to be remote full time.

21:19.29

Tony Berardo

So luckily we both work from home. um Now, the good news here, though, is to answer your question, we do it in shifts. So, for example, like this morning, watched my kid. We're on East Coast.

21:30.01

Tony Berardo

So I got her up. I gave her breakfast. I cooked her i cooked her breakfast. um We played. We did all that. We went for a walk with my dog, like all that stuff until she takes a nap. And she takes nap around 1231.

21:41.78

Tony Berardo

So then from that time when our kid wakes up, now my wife takes her. So during the time that we each have our kid, we're in our office. The door's locked.

21:53.98

Tony Berardo

We have everything we need. We have our breakfast. We have our snack. I don't pop out and say, hey, guys, how are you? You guys having fun this afternoon? No, none of that. It's like it's almost like I'm not in the house. And that to me is the discipline is I only have a short amount of time, right? Like I don't have a lot of time.

22:10.90

Tony Berardo

that I'm actually working. I'm only working probably four hours a day. So I'm like hunkering down. I got my headset on. I'm listening to music. I'm doing emails. I'm on conference calls. We're doing this podcast. Like I'm doing whatever I can to really focus on the time that I do have.

22:25.14

Tony Berardo

But then when I'm not working, my phone and laptop is in a different room and I'm hanging out with my kid. So that to me is the present part about being there is you got to treat it like it is you going to a job, clocking in and clocking out because your kid, they don't know the difference.

22:44.50

Tony Berardo

They just want you to be there. So if I'm half there and half at work, that's not good enough. So I make a point to do. And if that means I got to work on the weekend when she's napping to make up for it, then I do that.

22:55.90

Tony Berardo

But I don't work on the weekends to try to hit my deadlines when my kid's awake. No, sir. That's not how I roll.

23:08.31

Tony Berardo

That was a long answer to that question.

23:10.41

Jonathan Guerrero

it's what Yeah. How do we teach our kids to respect the home office? Is there a way to set boundaries that doesn't make them feel like they are an interruption to our real work?

23:24.01

Tony Berardo

That's question, man. um I know for for at least my you know daughter, she's obviously a two and a half, so she doesn't necessarily understand the concept of those boundaries.

23:34.52

Tony Berardo

But I think we're we're doing a good job so far instilling it early. And how we did it from the get-go, I mean, I'm talking like day one, is this routine that I'm talking about. She knows. you know she She doesn't come and knock on my office unless she knows it's time that I'm ready to get out. So like, you know, at 5 PM today, she's going to come and knock on my office, says, daddy, it's time to cook dinner.

23:58.94

Tony Berardo

So she knows that that took like every day of, you know, mommy outside the door saying, nope, daddy's working, daddy's working. So I think it starts early to answer your question. um But if, if they continue to do that, I think it's important that again, as dads,

24:15.74

Tony Berardo

you know, whatever, open the door, let them in, you know, like just that's happened a few times. And I, I have to catch myself. I'm like, Oh, I got to do this email. I got to do this.

24:27.90

Tony Berardo

Do you though? Do you have to do the email? Is it really important? The answer is no. So that I think is kind of the one thing that dads, again, we have to go back to is it's all good.

24:41.98

Tony Berardo

Like everything's going to work out. It's fine. If you're, If your job lays you off because you didn't answer an email or you didn't hop on a conference call and the reason you didn't do that was because you were with your kid, because your kid said, hey, daddy, come look at this dress.

24:57.46

Tony Berardo

I will happily not be at that chum at that company to look at that dress.

25:01.06

Jonathan Guerrero

They're a company that doesn't get it. And you probably don't want to be there anyway.

25:02.85

Tony Berardo

Right, dude. Yeah. So, and ah again, this is, it's a hard to pill to swallow, man. It's a hard pill to swallow. It took me... a lot of soul searching. And I think that, that scare I was talking about with my lung, I think maybe I have a different perspective that's a little bit more stoic and to some maybe unrealistic. um But that's just how I look at things now. i't I don't, I didn't look at things like this five years ago.

25:27.22

Tony Berardo

So I just think we have to hold ourself accountable and and really understand what's important in life.

25:34.01

Jonathan Guerrero

One of the perks of working from home is that our kids actually get to see us work. So every day is bring your kid to work day. How does a dad use his home-based business to teach his children about entrepreneurship, failure, and the value of a dollar?

25:50.74

Tony Berardo

Yeah, I think all that's relevant. And I try to do my part when I do explain work to her. And, you know, whether I'm working and, you know, she hops on my lap for a second and I'm doing a couple things and I say, okay, I got to go back to work. And, you know, she, again, doesn't understand the concept, but I think it's important early to let them know, you know, hey, when I work, the good news is every time we work, we earn what's called money.

26:13.66

Tony Berardo

And she knows what money is because we have a reward system in place. So I always kind of relate everything to that. So when I talk about money, I always follow up with, You know that smiley face that's in your jar? Well, every time you do a good...

26:25.43

Tony Berardo

Good thing we put a smiley face in the jar, right? Yeah. Well, that's kind of like money. Every time daddy does work, you know, we're able to put something in the jar and then we could buy nice things and do things. So again, instilling these type of values early on, I think is important because as they get older, hopefully they'll understand, hey, work is work.

26:43.22

Tony Berardo

We don't just get a bunch of free stuff. We have to, you know, earn our keep and sometimes we fail and don't get there and we're going to have to learn from that and learn from our mistakes. so it's all It's all instilling early and explaining everything because you one thing I realized that I'm just not very... You realize as a parent, as you know, Jonathan, you're not a very good human.

27:06.90

Tony Berardo

like here

27:08.02

Jonathan Guerrero

That's a fact.

27:08.82

Tony Berardo

You kind of get checked a little bit, right? Because like i I realized like I didn't say please and thank you.

27:11.03

Jonathan Guerrero

Yep.

27:15.74

Tony Berardo

To strangers. i Right?

27:17.82

Jonathan Guerrero

Yep.

27:18.10

Tony Berardo

I like I, I wasn't really explaining things properly. I would just kind of be like, oh, you do this because of this. And then you start realizing, oh, wait a minute. Do I really know how this works?

27:28.93

Tony Berardo

Let me look it up to see if I look. You become kind of a student again when you become a parent because you realize that, yeah, like all this stuff you're just, you take for granted.

27:34.07

Jonathan Guerrero

True story.

27:38.19

Tony Berardo

You know, like my, my daughter asked me the other day, she goes, She goes, ah hey, there's there's an ant. I see an ant. And I go, like go oh yeah, he's he's right down there. She goes, well, where's his eyes?

27:50.55

Tony Berardo

And I go, that's a great question. as And at first it kind of struck me. I'm like, what am I supposed to say? And I go, oh, well, he has eyes, sweetie, but they're too small. Well, well, how come I can't see them?

28:02.21

Tony Berardo

I go, well, you know, and then Jonathan, as you know, you get stuck in this like five minute conversation of trying to explain to you again.

28:08.17

Jonathan Guerrero

Uh-huh.

28:09.34

Tony Berardo

But again, i could easily dismiss that and be upset and be like, oh, but we got to get ready and go out to dinner. I'm not going to explain this to you. You'll figure it out later, kiddo. You know, like, no, you sit there and you explain these things because they don't know anything.

28:23.75

Tony Berardo

They're learning everything from scratch. So I think that's that's a big takeaway is just kind of explaining everything and and taking your time and not rushing. Everything is key.

28:32.41

Jonathan Guerrero

And that's just it. Like we homeschool our kids and we encourage our kids to be curious because that's how they learn.

28:35.95

Tony Berardo

Nice.

28:39.33

Jonathan Guerrero

That's naturally where they are. And so when you have those moments where their attention is on something and yeah, you want to go out to eat or select a restaurant or whatever, but their their interest is on learning something right now, you have to change your priorities and on the moment.

28:54.21

Tony Berardo

That's right.

28:58.15

Tony Berardo

For sure. Nailed it. Yeah, exactly. Which is hard to do, right, at first.

29:03.12

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah.

29:03.99

Tony Berardo

yeah You got used to it.

29:07.34

Jonathan Guerrero

Coming home changes the dynamic with your wife. How does a home front empire strengthen the marriage rather than create friction over over rules and household responsibilities?

29:20.63

Tony Berardo

Another good question. Crushing it. um Yeah, I mean, at least for us and every couple is different. um A lot of people that I talk to say I can't handle hanging with my husband for that long in a day.

29:33.85

Tony Berardo

And i could I could relate to that, which is why those boundaries are are so important. You know, like ah separating those time and kind of making it like a schedule.

29:38.94

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah.

29:43.26

Tony Berardo

um where like i when not When I talk like I'm in the, you know what is it, 2 o'clock my time? So like I've been up here for 1 a. Since 1 p.m. doing work. I haven't talked to my wife. I talked to her beforehand.

29:54.10

Tony Berardo

So from 1 to 5, I'm not going to text her. I'm not going to talk to her. I'm not going to poke my head in. And I think that's the separation because when I get down at 5.01 p.m., I miss her. You know?

30:06.07

Tony Berardo

Like I ah haven't seen her.

30:06.04

Jonathan Guerrero

Interesting.

30:08.28

Tony Berardo

So I'm excited to see her. I'm excited to be see my kid. I'm excited to see my dog. Like everyone's so happy. And then, you know, we go down and we cook dinner together and we we make up for lost time. So I think those boundaries are very important because if you're with your spouse 24-7, whether you work from home or not,

30:26.24

Tony Berardo

eventually you're going to get sick of each other because that's just how it is. you know um and you're going to have to deal with this thing for the rest of your life. you know If you're in a marriage, you're in until death to you part. right So hey you you might be stuck in this marriage for 50, 60 years.

30:38.30

Jonathan Guerrero

Yep.

30:41.54

Tony Berardo

So you better you better get some distance, get comfortable getting a little distance you know because you that way you can miss each other.

30:49.11

Jonathan Guerrero

And it's not really difficult to do. If you practice disciplines with your time, which you need to do any way to be successful if you're an entrepreneur.

30:58.16

Tony Berardo

That's That's right. Yeah, it's good practice. No doubt.

31:06.78

Jonathan Guerrero

How can dads listening find your work, your podcast podcast, or get advice on coming home and starting their empire?

31:15.80

Tony Berardo

Yeah. Well, um the easiest way is probably Instagram. That's where I'm the most active. And my Instagram is at theberardo. So it's my last name, T-H-E-B-E-R-A-R-D-O.

31:27.58

Tony Berardo

um But in terms of like long form educational stuff and maybe how to be a stay at home dad that makes money. I actually have a YouTube channel where I have my podcast. I have um a whole series that's dedicated to stay at home dads.

31:42.42

Tony Berardo

So if you're a dad out there and you want to maybe start a side hustle or you want to eventually get point where you're running your own business and you're working from home, that way you can hang out with your kid. I teach all that type of stuff on my YouTube amongst other things, but mostly that's my, that's my focus now. Sometimes I'll do like,

31:59.32

Tony Berardo

video reviews on my YouTube and or excuse me product reviews on my YouTube and things like that but mostly it's dedicated to trying to make dads understand that you can be a great father and also run a business.

32:11.61

Jonathan Guerrero

And your apparel can also be found on your website as well, right?

32:15.34

Tony Berardo

That's right humandad.com and we're also on social media as well but

32:21.02

Jonathan Guerrero

And then just to make things easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com. If you go to this episode and you are looking for the episode title called The Homefront Empire,

32:35.42

Jonathan Guerrero

The Homefront Empire. Go to that episode, look right below the episode description, and I will have the links that Tony mentioned posted right there for your convenience. As we close, what is your challenge for guys listening now?

32:49.66

Tony Berardo

um My challenge is simple. My challenge is

32:56.06

Tony Berardo

when you look into yourself in the mirror, just know that you are not a bad dad. You're just an exhausted employee.

33:06.87

Tony Berardo

So understand that the reason why you're exhausted is because you probably don't like what you do. So if that's the case, if you don't like what you do, stop doing it. Focus on your kid and focus on your wife, your spouse, and just figure out a way to make money from home.

33:24.15

Tony Berardo

Because there's never been a situation in the history of this world where someone said, you know what? I wish my dad wasn't in the picture.

33:36.12

Tony Berardo

Because if you're a good dad, being there for your kid, it's all upside. There's no downside to that. So just be there for your kid. That's my challenge to you.

33:48.75

Jonathan Guerrero

We spent this hour with Tony Berardo and the message is clear. The most important work you will ever do within your four walls is within the four walls of your home. Don't let the provider paradox trick you into thinking that a bigger paycheck is worth a smaller presence. You are the architect, the CEO, and the sentinel of your family.

34:08.79

Jonathan Guerrero

If you're called to build an empire, start by building it where it matters most. Tonight, look at your schedule. Are you giving your best energy to a company that could replace you in a week or to a family that can never replace you?

34:23.29

Jonathan Guerrero

It might be time to start planning your great return. A big thanks to Tony Berardo for leading the charge for dads everywhere. You can find his strategies for building your own home front empire at theberardo.com or go to this episode description, look right below, and then the link will be also posted there. Until next time, stay durable, stay sovereign, and remember that your greatest office is your own living room.

34:49.17

Jonathan Guerrero

We'll see you in the next episode.

But what if the antidote to the foster care crisis isn't more government funding, but more open front doors? What if the 'Durable Dad' isn't just a protector of his own children, but a sentinel for the family down the street? What if, just what if, we can heal dads and families in crisis WITHOUT tearing families apart?

Jenna Stout is the Chapter Director for Safe Families for Children in Kansas. Jenna and her team are leading a movement of 'Radical Hospitality.' They aren't a foster care agency; they are a community of volunteers who step in before the crisis becomes a catastrophe. They build a 'Circle of Support' around parents, offering a safe place for children and a path toward stability for the whole family.

To learn more about Safe Families or find a chapter near you, visit: https://safe-families.org/

To be a guest on The Fatherhood Challenge visit: https://podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

00:02.65

Jonathan Guerrero

We live in the most connected era in human history, yet we are the most isolated we've ever been.

00:08.20

Jenna Stout

Thank you.

00:08.92

Jonathan Guerrero

For a lot of us, the modern neighborhood has become a collection of fortresses. we have We wave at the neighbor, we hit the garage door opener, and we disappear behind our own walls. We've traded the village for privacy at the cost of that trade, is being paid and the cost of that trade is being paid by families in crisis. When a father loses his job,

00:29.78

Jonathan Guerrero

When a mother faces a medical emergency or when the weight of life simply becomes too heavy to carry loan, the lack of a support system often leads to the unthinkable, the state stepping in and the family being torn apart.

00:43.77

Jonathan Guerrero

But what if the antidote to the foster care crisis isn't more government funding? But what but more open front doors? What if the durable dad isn't a protector of his own children, but a sentinel for the family down the street?

00:59.38

Jonathan Guerrero

What if, just what if, we can heal dads and families in crisis without tearing families apart? We'll find out in just a moment, so don't go anywhere.

01:52.67

Jonathan Guerrero

Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me in this episode called Safe Families for Children. Today we are joined by Jenna Stout, the chapter director for Safe Families for Children in Kansas. Jenna and her team are leading a movement of radical hospitality. They aren't a foster care agency. They are a community of volunteers who step in before the crisis becomes a catastrophe. They built a circle of support around parents, offering a safe place for children and a path towards stability for the whole family. Jenna, welcome to the front to the Fatherhood Challenge.

02:26.07

Jenna Stout

Thank you so much. It's an honor to be invited into this space.

02:30.97

Jonathan Guerrero

Jenna, most dads are wired to protect their own inner circle. How does a father shift his mindset to see a stranger's child not as an intrusion, but as a mission-critical assignment for his family?

02:44.09

Jenna Stout

Wow, that's a powerful question to start out with. And honestly, it is one that at the most, hold some families back from being volunteers, but at the least, it it does make them pause before going through the steps to be a host family and stepping into these crisis situations. So a helpful way to frame this is to start by affirming the instinct that dads are wired to protect their inner circle.

03:14.07

Jenna Stout

I don't see that as a flaw, but as a strength. The shift we're asking isn't about abandoning or lessening that instinct, but asking them to expand it. So our Save Families founder, Dr. Dave Anderson, encourages us with God doesn't call the equipped, but equips the called.

03:36.95

Jenna Stout

So then it turns to how do we equip these dads to expand their inner circle. We encourage fathers to recognize that protecting his family and caring for another child isn't, they aren't competing missions, but they're connected. When you step in for a child in crisis through, say, families, you're not replacing their parents' It's not disrupting your home, but you're modeling for your own kids what courage, compassion, and responsibility can look like in real life. um

04:16.09

Jenna Stout

The second, I think, point that we try to encourage these dads with is what protection means. We don't see it as building a fence around your family, but stepping into gaps when someone is broken in the community. So an example of a strong father isn't just guarding what's inside their home, but helping to stabilize what's outside of it too. The really incredible thing is to see dads who do work through this mindset and a lot of times this immediate response to inviting

04:54.01

Jenna Stout

crisis into their home. um But once they work through that and expand their definition of family, it becomes a sense of mission when they buy in and they realize they're uniquely equipped for it, that God has equipped them, that their presence, consistency, and calm strength as a guy, as a dad, can be life-changing for these children in crisis.

05:17.12

Jenna Stout

So that's

05:19.19

Jonathan Guerrero

So let's get a little bit more personal, if that's okay. So Jenna, what is your own what is your own personal story of how and why you got involved with Safe Families?

05:23.26

Jenna Stout

Absolutely.

05:29.71

Jonathan Guerrero

You could be doing anything else that you want career-wise, but something tells me this is not a career, but something personal.

05:39.48

Jenna Stout

Absolutely. i am by education, a nurse with a bachelor's in nursing. But my husband and I, we have been foster parents. We have adopted internationally and locally. And as our children have grown up, we clearly wouldn't change that story for the world, but we have seen how important their birth families are to them. And so we are inviting those families personally back into our lives, but we also are seeing the importance of that connection early on and keeping that connection for not only our boys, but those in the community and for their parents. um

06:29.34

Jenna Stout

So many of the parents that we work with in in Kansas, in our little area of Southeast Kansas, 97% of the parents that we work with were in foster care. And so knowing that, knowing that they didn't have the example of a family or the support of a family and how important it is to raise their children, us personally seeing the effects of of children, not with their birth families, the effects of what it does to these birth parents who lose their children, We feel so strongly to keep those connections strong. And the best way to do that is through the model of the church. And so it it really is personal and something we we feel strongly benefits all the families in our community, both those volunteering and those who are needing the assistance.

07:31.96

Jonathan Guerrero

A lot of people confuse safe families with foster care. Can you explain the circle of support model and why it's actually a proactive prevention against the break the breakdown of the family unit?

07:44.79

Jenna Stout

Absolutely. Foster care is typically reactive. So it steps in after a situation has already reached a crisis point, often involving abuse, neglect, or legal intervention. And by that point, the family unit has already been disrupted.

08:03.19

Jenna Stout

The Safe Family Circle of Support model, on the other hand, is proactive and relational. So it's designed to come alongside a family before things fall apart. So instead of one system stepping in and taking over, you have a team or a circle of people surrounding a family in crisis. This circle within Safe Families includes a host family who temporarily cares for a child in their home, a family coach who walks closely with the parent to meet the goals that they have set. It might be housing, a job, child care, a medical crisis. um And then also our resource friends who help with practical needs like meals, transportation, encouraging texts. So rather than removing a child because a parent is struggling, the goal is to stabilize the parent and preserve the family. And so I would say that's the key difference. It it isn't about replacement, but about reinforcement.

09:10.35

Jonathan Guerrero

In your work in Kansas, what is the most common factor that leads a family to a crisis point? Is it lack of money, a lack of a tribe, or is it something else?

09:21.99

Jenna Stout

Our most common factor is lack of community. So I heard the question once, what is the op what is the opposite of substance of abuse? And immediately I thought sobriety, obviously, but that isn't the answer. It's community support and connection. So ah like I said, a lot of our families in Kansas, the majority of them who we serve grew up in foster care without that example, without that support. And so We want to offer that support and keep that family together.

10:10.46

Jonathan Guerrero

If a dad wants to become a host family, how does he lead his own children through that translation this transition? How do we teach our kids to share space, their toys, and their parents for the sake of another child?

10:25.57

Jenna Stout

That's a great question. We encourage all of our families to make it a conversation, not an announcement. No matter the age of the kids or anyone else in the home, include them in the conversation about opening their home. Be honest about what might be hard. Anticipate what could be hard, sharing toys, adjusting routines, or not having maybe mom or dad's full attention all the time.

10:54.65

Jenna Stout

We know that when kids feel heard, they're much more likely to feel ownership instead of resentment. And that goes along also with anticipating hardships that come up and having those conversations ahead of time. But also we encourage dads to give their children a role in the mission. Kids thrive when they know that they matter. Maybe they help pick out toys to share, set up a space, or think of ways to make their own children feel equipped to invite more children into their space. So you're teaching them this isn't just mom and dad helping, but this is a whole family ministry. um Another thing that dads can certainly do is to set clear boundaries and rhythms. Teaching generosity doesn't mean removing all structure. It's okay for kids to have a few special things or an area in the house that's just theirs or certain routines that stay consistent. That actually creates the security they need to be generous in the first place. um But I think the most important thing that dads can do is to model it. Our kids will take cues from how their parents respond. So if they show

12:09.62

Jenna Stout

their parents showing patience, making room, treating the child with dignity and calm and strength, then that will shape them more than any talk ever will. So um while you're really while really teaching your kids isn't just about how to share toys, you're teaching them how to share their lives. you're forming empathy, resilience, and a sense of responsibility that will likely stick with them long after the children leave your home.

12:42.58

Jonathan Guerrero

Every protector dad is going to ask about the risk. How does safe families vet the situations to ensure that while while we are being radical neighbors, we are still being vigilant sentinel protectors for our own kids?

12:57.82

Jenna Stout

Absolutely, and that's important to emphasize too All the dads listening. um When Safe Families requires parents to call in with a referral. And so during that time, we ask them.

13:17.24

Jenna Stout

um The call is being screened by our intake coordinator and we ask them important questions such as, you know, if there have been homicidal or suicidal or.

13:31.06

Jenna Stout

very aggressive behaviors. And we also, at least here in Kansas, we get release of information from schools. We have the parents sign those. um And we are very diligent about gathering all the information that we can to set up our volunteers, our host families for success. We are open and honest with the information that we get. we know that In order to set the family up for success, they need all the information, but even these kids coming into host homes, it's not it's not fair to them if they are placed in a home that isn't equipped with their unique behaviors and challenges as well. It can lead to a crisis within our host homes. And so That's really important for us to get all the information we can on behaviors, be honest with our host families. But also our mission with Safe Families is children safe and families together. And we emphasize to all of our staff and all of our volunteers that that does include our volunteer families. We don't want to put them in situations that make them physically unsafe. or even emotionally unsafe. This is a time for your family to serve together and grow together. And so that's that's our mission too, is that we are vigilant for our families being safe, both our referrals, our volunteers, and just as we also emphasize, just as these referral families, um when they place their child within safe families,

15:15.32

Jenna Stout

they can request the child to come back to them at any time. And it's a two-way street. if If it is not working out for the safety of the family, of the volunteer family, they can request that a child be moved from their family as well. So we it is it is near and dear to our heart to make sure that our volunteer families are safe and together as well.

15:45.05

Jonathan Guerrero

While most host moms often take the lead on the daily care, what is the specific spiritual and emotional role of the host dad in providing a sense of stability and masculine strength to a child who may have never seen it?

16:00.54

Jenna Stout

That's a great question. In many homes, the host mom does carry out more of the day-to-day caregiving, but the host dad often is the anchor of the family, both spiritually and in leadership and authority. And so a host dad models healthy authority, not dominance, not distance, but a strength that is under control. Many kids in crisis have either experienced harshness or miscarriage,

16:29.34

Jenna Stout

a lot of them absence from male figures. So when they encounter a man who is both firm and kind, who sets boundaries and listens, it can reshape their understanding of what masculinity can be. There's also a relational invitation. So our host dads don't force connections, but makes it available.

16:52.41

Jenna Stout

You know, just what dads do, tossing a ball, working on something side by side, sitting in the same room. Sometimes for kids, especially those who come in guarded, connections happen shoulder to shoulder before it happens heart to heart. so And then, of course, the spiritual layer. A host dad often sets the tone for what it looks like to live out faith in a grounded, everyday way. Not just in what he says, not in how just how he treats people, um but in how he handles stress, in how he treats emotional situations in how he extends grace. So it's less about formal moments and more about embodying something that's consistent and real. Like I said, many of these children haven't experienced this strong father figure. um or seeing a healthy marriage. But even this very short window of healthy, grounded, masculine presence can become a reference point that they carry for the rest of their life.

18:07.18

Jonathan Guerrero

Safe Families doesn't just host the kids. You support the parents. How does a host dad move from being a babysitter to being a resource or a matt or a mentor for a father who is struggling to get back on his feet?

18:26.54

Jenna Stout

I would say ah a babysitter operates from a place of distance and transaction, such as, you know, I've got your kid while you're at work um and and specific roles like that. But a mentor or a resource that we strive to be through Safe Families operates from proximity and partnership. You know, I'm in your corner while you get while you fight to get back on your feet. So this is...

18:54.65

Jenna Stout

First and foremost, choosing respect over judgment, no matter the situation that it's recognizing that child's dad is still their dad. There's still that connection of their dad. So when a host family recognizes that, when a host dad recognizes that and honors that, speaks well of him, speaks him up, speaks this bio dad up, avoids tearing him down, treats him with dignity. It builds trust instead of defensiveness. um We are where a lot of places are transactional. Safe Families tries to be relational. So it might not be an immediate fix, but it is a relationship that lasts beyond that. So many struggling fathers, they don't need a lecture. They don't need a quick fix. They need someone who will listen

19:49.72

Jenna Stout

Ask good questions, be consistent so that these dads can attempt to find these answers alongside them. It can be as simple as a text, a check-in, grabbing a coffee, just to communicate that they're not alone. it Again, it goes back to having that community. um And a host dad can also model what he might never say directly, how he talks about responsibility, how he handles stress, how he prioritizes his family. Those are things that these

20:24.70

Jenna Stout

biological dads are witnessing and watching. So we believe mentorship is often caught and not taught. um And finally, when the door opens, he can offer practical guidance um after trust is built. That might look like sharing how he handles work-life balance or a budget decision-making, or even how to handle failure. um Not from a place of superiority, but from a shared humanity, what I've sharing what the dads have learned along the way.

20:58.84

Jonathan Guerrero

I'm a huge fan of this idea of the host dads really talking up the other dads, building them up, edifying them before their own children.

21:10.04

Jonathan Guerrero

I think that is that is the coolest thing. That would never happen in foster care.

21:16.76

Jenna Stout

Right. i That definitely hits on the relational point of, say, families and that our goal is always reintegration.

21:27.09

Jenna Stout

From the second we get a referral and we accept a referral, reintegration is the goal. And so in order to to make that reintegration successful, we need the child to believe in their parent. We need the parent to believe in themselves. And so building them up through actions and words and practical learning side by side, we believe that that That is what these dads need.

21:56.60

Jonathan Guerrero

Wow. My mind's blown by by that part. um

22:05.66

Jonathan Guerrero

So what are some examples of family crisis situations where safe families for children would be an ideal resource?

22:15.29

Jenna Stout

Yeah, we have. We have kind of, you know, our top eight or 10, but here in Kansas, our our biggest ones are, we're connected with hospitals. So when a single parent comes in there with a medical crisis, their children can't stay the night at the hospital.

22:34.83

Jenna Stout

They're a good parent. They just need someone during this medical crisis to to watch their children. they They don't need to go into state's custody because mom or dad's having a medical crisis. So that's a a beautiful picture. And after the children have been in a host home for a night or a week or something, that family now has a phone number in their phone for future short-term crisis like that week. Our prayer is that that relationship continues beyond that that short-term medical crisis, but a relationship and a phone number that's available to them. Another one is, and a lot of these situations, eighteen just one of them doesn't occur. You know, when one thing happens, it kind of snowballs. So if someone, um their child is sick and they,

23:32.09

Jenna Stout

they miss a few days of work, they lose their job. If they lose their job, they lose their childcare.

23:35.36

Jonathan Guerrero

wait, you're gonna do nine.

23:38.41

Jenna Stout

They lose their housing. It just kind of snowballs from there. And so a lot of our situations are homelessness mixed with job loss, mixed with not a community of support.

23:51.46

Jenna Stout

And all of those are excellent safe families referrals because we can Our coaches, our family coaches walk alongside these parents meeting those goals while our family friends and host families make sure that the family can stay together, stay connected and get through this short term crisis with a community at the end of it.

24:17.46

Jonathan Guerrero

Something tells me that these families become bonded together. Like the dad, the dad gains a brother, both dads. And this goes way beyond that one interaction.

24:26.52

Jenna Stout

Absolutely.

24:31.03

Jenna Stout

that is That is our goal of safe families. it It doesn't happen every time. You know, sometimes we just hear from parents when the next crisis occurs, but that is definitely our prayer and our goal that we are a phone number in their phone from here on out, but that we will see them at church on Sunday and that they will be in our homes for Christmas dinner and that our kids do go to each other's ballgames, you know, and support each other. And so that is definitely our our prayer behind Save Families.

25:13.65

Jonathan Guerrero

It's story time.

25:17.91

Jonathan Guerrero

Time to brag about safe families for children. Please share some success stories from your Kansas chapters.

25:26.43

Jenna Stout

I would love to. We are so proud of our parents and our our volunteers. We have a an incredible mom that reached out to us needing to go. She was choosing to go to a 30-day inpatient rehab for a substance abuse problem. She had a teenage daughter in her home. And so at that point, when someone has a teenager, we...

25:54.07

Jenna Stout

We need the mom to choose safe families, but also the teenager. it's it's a It's a decision for both of them. And so we were able to find a volunteer host family in our community that was excited to welcome this teenager and keep her in her school district.

26:15.29

Jenna Stout

and provide her needs during that time. She had a birthday. She turned 15 during the hosting. They took her out for a sushi dinner, her choice, and and did a cake.

26:25.45

Jenna Stout

We were able to send pictures to mom. And so after that 30 days, mom and teen were reunited and they are still at home together.

26:29.09

Jonathan Guerrero

Mm-hmm.

26:34.82

Jenna Stout

um it was It was a sacrifice for mom, for daughter, for our host family. It's a sacrifice, but the benefits were incredible. We also, my husband and i hosted for a mom. Similarly, she needs to go for 30-day treatment. She chose to voluntarily. And so we hosted her two girls during that 30 days and she got out. They were reunited. It was it was so amazing. um A few months later, maybe six or nine months later, mom called and said, Jenna, I've relapsed. Can you keep my girls again? And so of course, like that's, that to me is incredible. The strength she had only relapsed within 48 hours. She knew she had a family to call who her girls were already familiar with, who we had seen in between these hostings. Um, that time mom went for a 10 day rehab. Um, and I,

27:38.71

Jenna Stout

About a year later, mom called again and needed to go for 10 days. At this point, it's like cousin camp, you know, when her kids come over. And so we we are so proud of these parents that continue fighting for their family. And we want to be alongside them as as long as they're fighting and they are wanting to keep their family together.

28:01.30

Jenna Stout

We are there alongside them to make sure that happens also.

28:05.18

Jonathan Guerrero

All right. All right. I got to ask this. Where do you think Jesus is in all of this?

28:13.30

Jenna Stout

He is everywhere in all of it. He is in every connection, just the the strength of the parents to call in.

28:24.57

Jenna Stout

He is there in the host families who volunteer to open their homes to these dads we've talked about. the courage that it takes to invite crisis into your home is just incredible. So he is within their hearts. Um, we offer to pray with every family throughout the process. And we have had families who we ask their religious affiliation, upon intake. We have had those that declare that they're pagans, that, um,

28:58.46

Jenna Stout

Muslim, we have had all different religions call in and never once have I had anyone decline a prayer for their family. Um, some of them say, i don't feel comfortable praying, but absolutely I would love a prayer or, you know, they might be a little more hesitant, but no one has ever declined a prayer. And so that alone, I know that he has weaved throughout every connection. um On both sides, the referral, the volunteer, the safety of the children in the home, the safety of the parents as they are working through these short term crisis.

29:39.93

Jenna Stout

We couldn't have safe families without him.

29:46.32

Jonathan Guerrero

How can dads listening learn more or connect with his with a Safe Families for Children chapter four for help?

29:56.66

Jenna Stout

We would love if any dads listening went to the Safe Families website. If you just Google Safe Families for Children, it will pull up our national website, and then you can see our different chapters in there as well and see if there's a Safe Families near you and see how you can get involved.

30:16.78

Jenna Stout

Thank

30:18.81

Jonathan Guerrero

Just to make things easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

30:20.50

Jenna Stout

you.

30:26.02

Jonathan Guerrero

If you go to this episode and you're looking for the episode title, Safe Families for Children, Safe Families for Children, go to that episode, look right below the episode description.

30:37.76

Jonathan Guerrero

I'm going to have the link that Jenna mentioned posted right there for your for your convenience. What an amazing conversation with Jenna Stout. She has challenged all of us to rethink what a safe home really looks like.

30:51.22

Jonathan Guerrero

A home is safe when its walls are strong, but a home is powerful when its doors are open. Being a durable dad isn't just about keeping the world shut out. It's about having a foundation so solid that you can invite the world in to find healing.

31:08.12

Jonathan Guerrero

Tonight, look at your dinner table. Look at who's around your dinner table. and your spare bedroom. Are they just amenities for your comfort or are they assets for the mission?

31:21.08

Jonathan Guerrero

You might be the circle of support that keeps a family from falling apart. A huge thank you to Jenna Stout for the incredible work she's doing with Safe Families for Children.

31:26.50

Jenna Stout

Thank

31:30.55

Jonathan Guerrero

You can find out how to join the movement or support a local chapter at safefamilies.org. And I'll have the link posted in the episode description. Until next time, stay durable, stay hospitable, and remember that your greatest protection might just be your willingness to serve.

31:49.52

Jonathan Guerrero

We'll see you in the next episode.

32:08.70

Jenna Stout

Two has recently become critical.

Dr. Gloria Vanderhorst. Dr. Vanderhorst is a psychologist and an expert in the science of human connection. She understands the 'Wiring of the Heart' and how a father’s ability to manage his own emotions is the single greatest predictor of his child’s future resilience.

To connect with Dr. Vanderhorst, get her free resource or her book visit: https://drvanderhorst.com/

To purchase The Body Keeps the Score, visit: https://a.co/d/0aJEazo1

To be a guest on The Fatherhood Challenge visit: https://podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

00:04.18

Jonathan Guerrero

Every father knows the sound of a household losing its grip. It's the door slam, the high-pitched scream of a toddler, or the heavy, suffocating silence of a teenager who's checked out. In those moments, your biology is designed to respond. Your heart rate climbs, your jaw tightens, and your protector instinct flares up.

00:22.74

Jonathan Guerrero

But here's the hard truth. In a crisis, you aren't just a witness. You are the thermostat.

00:28.75

Gloria Vanderhorst

Mm-hmm.

00:29.11

Jonathan Guerrero

If you match the child's chaos with your own anger, you've just turned the heat up in the house that's already burning. But you can master the neurobiology of your own calm, and you can provide the external regulator that your child's developing brain desperately needs. Emotional intelligence isn't about being soft. It's about having a tactical restraint to lead your family out of the fire instead of into it. And my guest is going to give us some language and strategy some strategy to do just that in just a moment. So don't go anywhere.

01:01.78

Jonathan Guerrero

you.

01:34.89

Jonathan Guerrero

What you find in their role? And it's how society will understand how important the mother's arms, the ability and culture of their family is fired.

01:44.88

Jonathan Guerrero

Greetings everyone! Thank you so much for joining me. My co-host Isaac has the day off today. We are joined by Dr. Gloria Vanderhorst. Dr. Vanderhorst is a psychologist and an expert in the science of human connection. She understands the wiring of the heart and how a father's ability to manage his own emotions is the single greatest predictor of his child's future's resilience.

02:07.10

Jonathan Guerrero

Dr. Vanderhorst, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.

02:10.58

Gloria Vanderhorst

Thank you very much. I'm excited about being here and having this conversation.

02:17.16

Jonathan Guerrero

Dr. Vanderhorse, how in the world did you get interested in the science of human connection and working with boys and helping boys and dads learn emotional language? What's your story?

02:28.18

Gloria Vanderhorst

Oh, it's a fascinating story. I was a professor. With tenure, I could have stayed at the college level and kind of coasted, but I decided i wanted to do more hands-on work.

02:46.87

Gloria Vanderhorst

And so I started doing evaluations for another psychologist in private practice. And she went on a sabbatical. I took over her practice completely.

02:59.13

Gloria Vanderhorst

and then decided that I would leave academics and start my own private practice. I had a friend who ran a preschool. And so when I started my private practice, she naturally referred preschool students to me for evaluations as necessary.

03:20.63

Gloria Vanderhorst

And all of those were boys. Amazing. Boys in preschool stand out to preschool teachers because the preschool teachers are female and they really don't understand what is happening with preschool boys. And so they label their energy as perhaps a sign of attention deficit.

03:47.19

Gloria Vanderhorst

And so I got to evaluate lots of preschool boys. And then the preschool boys' fathers decided to put themselves on my calendar.

04:00.44

Gloria Vanderhorst

And I got pickled in understanding what life is like for boys and men in this society. And it was a great lesson.

04:12.98

Jonathan Guerrero

Oh, what a powerful story. Well, let's dive right in. When a kid starts screaming or a teenager rolls their eyes, a dad's fight or flight response often kicks in instantly.

04:25.05

Jonathan Guerrero

What is actually happening in his brain in those seconds? And how does a dad, how does he retake the command center before he speaks?

04:33.35

Gloria Vanderhorst

I think what's really happening is fear because we rob boys and men of access to the full range of feeling states.

04:47.29

Gloria Vanderhorst

So when their middle schooler, goes on a rampage, when their teenager, uh, confronts them and talks back, the immediate reaction is to be shocked and not know what to do.

05:07.10

Gloria Vanderhorst

So when I'm shocked, I'm either going to increase my energy and try to take control, or I'm going to decrease my energy and disappear.

05:21.33

Gloria Vanderhorst

So most dads do number one, they increase their energy and make an effort to take control over the situation. But they're doing that on impulse rather than taking a breath, counting a beat or two and reflecting on. So what's happening with this teenage boy here in front of me, who's just gone ballistic.

05:48.82

Gloria Vanderhorst

If you can give yourself an opportunity to do the analysis first, before you jump into responding, Then you have an opportunity to connect with your teenager.

06:02.39

Gloria Vanderhorst

If you just respond, you will distance that teenager. And that's not healthy for either one of you because the teenager is acting out because he wants connection.

06:16.60

Gloria Vanderhorst

He wants to be able to be understood and to get help from you.

06:26.32

Jonathan Guerrero

So it sounds like what's really going on is that teenager has a desperate need to empty and they're just looking for somebody, specifically you, I guess they chose you to empty themselves to.

06:39.86

Jonathan Guerrero

And that's really what they're wanting. Does that sound correct?

06:43.77

Gloria Vanderhorst

Oh, that's a great description. All right. That here's your teenage son just filled with something. All right. It could be filled with irritation about something that happened with a peer.

06:58.58

Gloria Vanderhorst

It could be filled with fear about what's going to happen in the next stage of his life, but he is full of something needs to empty it. And you have to be a safe receptacle to receive whatever is happening with that teenager. And too often, fathers respond on impulse to take power over the teenager rather than to invite the teenager to disclose more and make a safe container for that teenager to dump.

07:37.69

Gloria Vanderhorst

whatever he's wrestling with. And he's certainly wrestling with something.

07:43.26

Jonathan Guerrero

I can relate to this, I think, because in the times when my kids have had to dump, I've always, not always, but a lot of times I've taken it personally, especially if I'm any way related to what they're talking about.

07:58.71

Jonathan Guerrero

It gets taken personally. And so my response ends up being a defensive response, which is the very thing they're scared of.

08:07.74

Gloria Vanderhorst

okay It makes perfect sense, right? Because typically what your teenager is going to dump is something that you experienced when you were a teenager.

08:20.70

Gloria Vanderhorst

You had the same fear base, right? You had the same reactions as a teenager. And typically, right, as adults, we don't want to go back and visit those times, right?

08:35.61

Jonathan Guerrero

Nope.

08:36.47

Gloria Vanderhorst

our Our teen years were naturally right full of angst, ups, downs. It's the time in our lives that we experiment with different parts of our personality.

08:50.07

Gloria Vanderhorst

And so we don't really like being reminded. or pulled back into that stage of life, but your teenager needs you to connect, to be reminded, to go back to that stage of life and have empathy and curiosity. Often we miss having curiosity with our teenagers, particularly with our teenage boys, because we have this expectation that a boy should be able to solve the problem, move forward and not need assistance of any kind. We do our boys a real disservice.

09:37.31

Jonathan Guerrero

And when they need us to go back to, say, our teenage years, are they just wanting us to go back internally ourselves just for the sake of being able to empathize?

09:42.34

Gloria Vanderhorst

Mm-hmm.

09:49.18

Jonathan Guerrero

Or are they wanting us to share those experiences with them?

09:54.08

Gloria Vanderhorst

I think both things are possible, but I would tell you they are not wanting to hear your story before you hear their story.

10:04.79

Gloria Vanderhorst

So empathy trumps sharing. And empathy is sometimes very hard for fathers to generate. If you really look at the development of boys in this culture, we don't offer empathy to our boys as easily as we offer it to our girls.

10:29.94

Gloria Vanderhorst

So frequently they have just been shut down or given directions on how to manage their feeling states, but no one has really been curious and interested in sitting down and hearing more of what's happening with their feelings because culturally we train our boys really not to have feelings.

10:59.45

Gloria Vanderhorst

They're allowed to be angry, irritated, anything that falls into that bucket, but they're not allowed the full range of emotions. They can't be sad. They can't be tender.

11:14.01

Gloria Vanderhorst

They can't be needy. They should be brave. They should be strong so they can be angry or frustrated, but not other emotions.

11:24.80

Jonathan Guerrero

Oh, wow, you hitting on some truth because that plays itself out well into adulthood. And it's probably why so many men are messed up.

11:39.38

Gloria Vanderhorst

It's right on target. Our jails are full of men. And not women. Why do you suppose that is?

11:48.37

Jonathan Guerrero

Unresolved issues from the history that nobody wants to go back and visit.

11:53.05

Gloria Vanderhorst

Yes, that's absolutely right. We do not give men the opportunity to process their emotional experiences when they have them.

12:05.02

Gloria Vanderhorst

or when they reflect on them, we are not interested in helping our boys and men process feeling states.

12:16.02

Gloria Vanderhorst

So they swallow them, they hold them in their bodies. They also die younger because of that. They develop lots of physical problems because of that. We train our boys very early on to deny their feelings.

12:34.71

Jonathan Guerrero

Interesting you said that some of that is stored in the body.

12:39.05

Gloria Vanderhorst

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

12:39.35

Jonathan Guerrero

For example, i in my own experience, like I remember as a kid, part of my discipline or whatever, if I got out of line or got rambunctious or anything, is i would they would grab me were around the back of my neck, around the shoulders really hard and squeeze.

12:57.02

Gloria Vanderhorst

okay

12:57.30

Jonathan Guerrero

And so to this day, I have a lot of tension that will flare up in that exact spot. Is that what we're talking about?

13:05.82

Gloria Vanderhorst

That's exactly what we're talking about. That makes perfect sense, right? Your body holds so much information about the interactions that we've had with everyone. And when we train our boys not to cry, right, they still are human beings. So they have experience of sadness. But if those tears cannot come out my eyes and run down my cheeks, they have to go someplace.

13:38.14

Gloria Vanderhorst

I have a great story to tell you. One kindergarten age boy that I worked with was in a situation where his parents were divorced. He moved back and forth between these two houses and he was constantly acting out in each house. He just had no comfort in either place.

14:00.57

Gloria Vanderhorst

So working with him through several sessions, we came to the point that he started to talk about this anger that he had. And I asked him, you know, you're, why don't you ever cry about all of this?

14:19.32

Gloria Vanderhorst

And he gave me the most elaborate description. He said, i have tears. But my tears go down my throat into my tummy.

14:31.03

Gloria Vanderhorst

They turn into rocks and then they come back out and they come into my hands and I just throw them around the room. Well, that was a perfect description of what happens when you suppress an emotion.

14:48.89

Gloria Vanderhorst

It's going to go somewhere, right? It's either going to come out as rocks you throw around the room, anger at everyone else, or it's going to affect your body. So a tummy full of rocks is not comfortable at all.

15:09.27

Gloria Vanderhorst

So you end up with bodily symptoms as a male because you hold on. to these feelings states rather than sharing them.

15:21.43

Jonathan Guerrero

Thank you for sharing that story. I think that child is really emotionally bright.

15:26.90

Gloria Vanderhorst

Truly.

15:28.81

Jonathan Guerrero

you know how hard it would be for most people to describe that in language?

15:32.89

Gloria Vanderhorst

i know it was fascinating. I was thrilled to get his description.

15:39.54

Jonathan Guerrero

You mentioned that a child's brain isn't fully wired to calm itself down yet. How does a dad's calm presence literally act as an external hard drive for this child for his child's developing nervous system?

15:52.11

Gloria Vanderhorst

That's a great question. And it's so hard for a father to be that external calming influence.

16:03.09

Gloria Vanderhorst

They've been trained. the same way that their little boy or teenager has been trained to suppress emotion. And when you pack something in tight and push it down and push it down and push it down, it's gonna have a natural resistance to that.

16:25.11

Gloria Vanderhorst

So it's not surprising that boys and men end up with explosives acting out forms. of anger. They have not been allowed to develop any other process for managing their feeling states.

16:44.44

Gloria Vanderhorst

So when your son dysregulated and you meet that with dysregulation, there's going to be a huge conflict.

16:56.86

Gloria Vanderhorst

The task for fathers is to understand how they have been trained and make a significant turnaround.

17:09.56

Gloria Vanderhorst

Be able to identify their feelings, put words to them so they can help their sons increase their own emotional vocabulary. And then you can problem solve.

17:26.74

Gloria Vanderhorst

If I can identify what I'm feeling and share it with someone else, there's first immediate relief because I've identified it. If I can label it, I can own it.

17:39.96

Gloria Vanderhorst

So there's immediate relief in identifying it. And then when I share it with someone else, I can problem solve because we're born connected to another human being.

17:53.40

Gloria Vanderhorst

We seek connection all throughout our lives and we are stronger and healthier when we are connected to another human being. So we problem solve in tandem, not in isolation.

18:09.55

Jonathan Guerrero

I think a lot of dads worry that if they validate a child's big emotions that they're actually being soft or they're agreeing with the bad behavior, if that's what the whole discussion is about.

18:21.18

Jonathan Guerrero

But when you validate that feeling, then what you're really communicating to the child is that, or the teenager, is that they are respected. And then when they feel respected and they're emptied,

18:36.28

Jonathan Guerrero

all of a sudden they become more open to whatever it is that you have to say does that sound correct

18:42.59

Gloria Vanderhorst

Oh, that's right on target. And the ridiculous piece about this is that we treat boys and girls very differently. Father interacting with daughter gives her much more permission to be emotional and to express a range of emotions.

19:03.64

Gloria Vanderhorst

But father interacting with son will shut him down pretty quickly. either with his own language or with his body posture and facial expression.

19:18.58

Gloria Vanderhorst

So we train boys very early to avoid the full range of emotion. So as an adult male, you're uncomfortable with that full range. You want to shut it down as fast as possible. And that's the absolute opposite of what your teenage son needs.

19:41.66

Gloria Vanderhorst

He needs to be able to explore his feelings. He needs you to be a safe container for that. And not to get agitated or try to shut him down. You want to invite more of his feeling state, not diminish it.

20:02.63

Jonathan Guerrero

I think one of the most effective verbiage or languages that I use or phrasing that I use is, well, no wonder you said or you did that.

20:14.65

Jonathan Guerrero

You actually make a lot of sense. And then there's this look of shock on their face when I say that.

20:21.41

Gloria Vanderhorst

Mm-hmm that's fabulous, right? That's a great invitation for safety. You've just made it really safe, right? Even the simple, you know, I can understand why you did that is safety and your child needs safety in order to explore themselves. And you have to be the safe container.

20:46.87

Jonathan Guerrero

So we all lose it once in a while. When a dad loses his cool and he breaks that connection, what is the neurobiological moral biological importance of the repair or the apology? Does it actually make the bondn the bond stronger?

21:01.69

Gloria Vanderhorst

It does. It's very important that we offer repair. We're in relationship. We thrive in relationship. If we are isolated, we actually get sick.

21:17.72

Gloria Vanderhorst

We actually have difficulty.

21:18.86

Jonathan Guerrero

Okay.

21:21.18

Gloria Vanderhorst

And if we're completely isolated, it's really difficult for a human being to survive in isolation. So it's very important to validate your son's feelings, to be accessible and set aside the time, right? That message from father is, you know, I'm here as long as you need. All right. So if you want to be silent for a while, that'll be fine for me too.

21:51.58

Gloria Vanderhorst

But we're eventually going to be able to process what you're experiencing.

21:59.56

Jonathan Guerrero

How do the same emotional intelligence skills, excuse me, how are the same emotional intelligence skills used to de-escalate a crying child to translate? how does that How does that translate into leading a high pressure team or negotiating a business deal?

22:18.03

Gloria Vanderhorst

There's a strong parallel. If you think about it, right? Your toddler is melting down. All right. Do you run from the room?

22:29.56

Gloria Vanderhorst

No. Do you send the toddler from the room? no You stay present. You provide yourself as a sense of safety. Nobody's running away.

22:44.57

Gloria Vanderhorst

right. And nobody's invading you when you're dysregulated, but there's a safe container that is presented because I am present.

22:58.78

Gloria Vanderhorst

And if you can stay present, I talked with a father just a few days ago about a special needs child who would melt down in the grocery store.

23:11.35

Gloria Vanderhorst

And of course that's embarrassing, right? But my recommendation was, okay, when your child begins to melt down in the grocery store, all right, set your cart aside, sit down on the floor.

23:25.72

Gloria Vanderhorst

Get down to the level of that child. So the same thing is true with your teenager. Be in eye contact with that person.

23:40.55

Gloria Vanderhorst

Don't tower over them. Don't send them away. But be present at the same level with them. And then breathe.

23:52.89

Gloria Vanderhorst

Take your time. Your physical presence has power. It sends a message of safety. You want to be a safe container for your teenager's distress.

24:08.06

Gloria Vanderhorst

And you you do that with your body by being present and being at their level. You're not standing over. You're not sending them away. You're physically present creates the safety that they need to start to describe what their experience has been and why they're dysregulated.

24:34.19

Jonathan Guerrero

I think in my experience working in the corporate environment, I don't remember seeing anyone do that.

24:41.30

Gloria Vanderhorst

ah Probably not. But it.

24:45.46

Jonathan Guerrero

Imagine you what an impact it would do in your environment if you were the first to do that.

24:50.01

Gloria Vanderhorst

Right. And it's so powerful, right? When we are on the same level as our child, we have offered connection to them. We've offered safety to them.

25:06.04

Gloria Vanderhorst

And how many times have you kind of seen in films or in real life, right? The father towering over the child in order to communicate or to deliver discipline rather than being on their level as a means of saying, all right, I'm curious, I'm interested, you're obviously in distress and there's a story here.

25:34.20

Gloria Vanderhorst

i need the whole story. And that may take time. That may take more than one interaction with that child to create safety so that they can tell the full story of what's been happening for them that has them so dysregulated.

25:55.23

Jonathan Guerrero

So if a dad treats this as an emotional investment and a legacy, and if a father commits to being the emotional anchor today, what does that do for his child's mental health and relationship success 20 years from now?

26:03.84

Gloria Vanderhorst

Mm-hmm.

26:09.89

Gloria Vanderhorst

Long term, it is a healthier child and they are healthier as an adult. They will be able to facilitate similar experiences for their children.

26:25.34

Gloria Vanderhorst

And it gives men and boys in particular permission to explore the full range of feeling states.

26:36.63

Gloria Vanderhorst

You have said to that child, whatever you're feeling, I'm in attention. I want to know, i want to understand, i want to come alongside of you and walk through this process with you so that I have similar view of what happened for you and I really know what you're feeling.

26:53.56

Jonathan Guerrero

Do

27:05.17

Jonathan Guerrero

you mind if I go off the rails a little bit on this?

27:07.83

Gloria Vanderhorst

Sure, go.

27:09.40

Jonathan Guerrero

So what is the connection between a dad who, let's say, practices these skills early in the child's life? How would that be linked to the child's physiological health? Like, for example, would that have any connection to a reduction in the child's risk of developing high blood pressure or some autoimmune disease?

27:33.53

Gloria Vanderhorst

All right. so you're not off the charts at all. You're right on target. The body keeps the score. Bessel van der Cox famous book describes in great detail how important.

27:49.02

Gloria Vanderhorst

It is to understand the connection between emotion and physiology. If I hold feelings in my body, parts of my body are going to start to break down.

28:04.06

Gloria Vanderhorst

All right. The classic heart attack, right? Because I never disclose any feeling of stomach problems that develop arthritis that develops. There's a great study done by a group of therapists in internal family systems where they took a group of women that had arthritis symptoms.

28:32.76

Gloria Vanderhorst

Um, and they put them through a process of therapy where they had the opportunity to disclose and process the stressors in their lives and the arthritis began to heal.

28:53.85

Gloria Vanderhorst

So we know that emotion and body are really interconnected. And if we hold emotion in our bodies, we are going to get sick.

29:10.18

Gloria Vanderhorst

It's just classic. And men hold emotion in their bodies all the time. They die younger than women because they hold emotion in their bodies and it leads to the breakdown of systems internally.

29:34.49

Jonathan Guerrero

So now you've saved the best for last. Your recent book, Read, Reflect, Respond, The Three R's of Growth and Change, was written specifically to help adults examine their histories and grow into the present.

29:46.87

Jonathan Guerrero

Why do dads have to know their parts and to get to know every version of themselves through their life's history?

29:54.92

Gloria Vanderhorst

It's powerful to understand the history that you have experienced emotionally because emotions either will get talked about or they will get held in your body and your brain stores every experience you have ever had.

30:22.62

Gloria Vanderhorst

Now people think, well, that's kind of maybe ridiculous or that's hard to believe, but I know that your brain holds every experience. So there's evidence that we even have memories in utero from the last trimester because your brain is working.

30:47.70

Gloria Vanderhorst

and storing information in the last trimester, but definitely from birth forward, your brain holds on to every experience that you have ever had.

31:00.79

Gloria Vanderhorst

And if you can tap into that, then you can heal and educate yourself. But the early memories are not stored in terms of language and most journal books have lines for you to write responses to the stimulating questions or essays that are in the book.

31:27.51

Gloria Vanderhorst

This journal book has blank pages. It has a couple of stimulating questions at the top of the blank page, but intentionally the page blank.

31:39.16

Gloria Vanderhorst

so that you can tap into the earliest memories that are stored in your brain by either drawing, scribbling. i mean You can write words, of course. I'm not going restrict you from writing language, but you can tap into early storage, and that's really the beginning stage of the types of reactions that you engage in as an adult.

32:13.23

Gloria Vanderhorst

There's tons of information stored from infancy, toddler, before you start to talk. You've had a history of interactions with other people, and you have learned what the culture expects of you.

32:33.18

Gloria Vanderhorst

and you need to be able to access that information. So this journal book lets you access that early information and heal from the things that you've been told or treated in ways that have restricted you.

32:52.63

Jonathan Guerrero

How can dads get your free therapy guide, find your resources, or connect with you for help?

32:58.39

Gloria Vanderhorst

They can go to my website. And the website is So it's www.drvanderhorst.com. And the first thing that I would love everyone to do Is to download the feeling sheet. There's a feelings sheet on my website that you can download and print out. It's three or four pages, three or four columns on each page. It has hundreds of feeling words.

33:34.52

Gloria Vanderhorst

And that lovely thing about our brain. is that our brains can recognize the feeling that we're experiencing in a situation. So if you scan through that list of feelings, the experience that you're having will just leap off the page.

33:53.50

Gloria Vanderhorst

But you could not have generated that feeling word on your own. You need help because we've shut off your access to feelings, but you still have the capability of finding and labeling that feeling. So download the feeling sheet for sure.

34:14.65

Gloria Vanderhorst

And you can also use the website to book time. And there are tons of resources on my website.

34:22.55

Jonathan Guerrero

And just to make things easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com. If you go to this episode and you're looking for the episode called Beyond the Outburst, Beyond the Outburst, go to that episode, look right below the episode description, and I will have the link that Dr. Vanderhorst just mentioned posted right there for your convenience.

34:47.00

Jonathan Guerrero

Dr. Vanderhorst, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

34:52.50

Gloria Vanderhorst

My challenge is to be curious about yourself. Every male out there has been shut off from their feeling states.

35:06.81

Gloria Vanderhorst

You are limited and that limitation can easily be removed. Start with a journal book.

35:17.46

Gloria Vanderhorst

Engage yourself in reading, engage yourself in therapy and discover the person that you were designed to be.

35:28.71

Jonathan Guerrero

We have had an amazing and insightful conversation with Dr. Gloria Vanderhorst, and the lesson is clear. You cannot lead a family. You cannot regulate. Being a durable dad isn't about being a man of stone.

35:41.45

Jonathan Guerrero

It's about being a man of stability.

35:43.54

Gloria Vanderhorst

but

35:43.45

Jonathan Guerrero

When the world your living room gets loud, Your family needs you to look needs to look at you and see an anchor, not another wave. Your calm is the greatest gift you can give your children because it teaches them that they are safe even when their emotions are big.

35:59.80

Jonathan Guerrero

Tonight, when the temperature rises in your home, remember that you are thermostat. Take the tactical pause. lead your heart Lead your own heart first and your family will follow.

36:11.61

Jonathan Guerrero

A huge thank you to Dr. Gloria Vanderhorst for providing the parental prescription that we all need. You can find more of her work and resources at drvanderhorst.com or just go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com and look right below the episode description.

36:26.30

Jonathan Guerrero

Until next time, stay durable, stay regulated, and remember that your greatest strength is your ability to remain unshakable. We will see you in the next episode.

If a child knows who they are and why they are here, they don't need to fear the world. They can walk into the wind with courage because their identity is an anchor, not a sail. Courage isn't the absence of fear; it’s the presence of a purpose that is bigger than the fear, and much bigger than them. In this episode we’re going to explore how dads apply this for their kids.

I'm joined by David Ask, the creator of Guardians of Grit. David didn't just write a book; he started a movement to help fathers become the intentional architects of their children’s character. He’s here to share his own story of discovery and to show us how we can help our kids build a 'Grit' that is rooted in a deep sense of identity and mission.

To learn more about David's work including his book visit: https://theaskexperience.com/

To be a guest on The Fatherhood Challenge visit: https://podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

00:07.19

Jonathan Guerrero

The world our kids are walking into is louder and more confusing than ever. Everywhere they turn, someone is trying to sell them a different identity, a different truth, and a different purpose. For many children, the result is a paralyzing anxiety because they don't have a solid ground to stand on. They are like ships without a rudder, tossing around by every cultural wave.

00:30.39

Jonathan Guerrero

As fathers, we often think it's our job to protect them from this storm. But a sentinel knows that the greatest protection you can give your child isn't a wall on the outside. It's a compass on the inside.

00:43.74

Jonathan Guerrero

If a child knows who they are and why they are here, They don't need to fear the world. They can walk into the wind with courage because their identity is an anchor, not a sail.

00:56.34

Jonathan Guerrero

Courage isn't the absence of fear. It's the presence of a purpose that is bigger than the fear and much bigger than them. In just a moment, we're going to explore how dads can apply this for their kids. So don't go anywhere.

01:55.03

Jonathan Guerrero

Greetings, everyone.

01:55.29

David Ask

Please.

01:55.75

Jonathan Guerrero

Thank you so much for joining me in this episode called Guardians of Grit. Today, we are joined by David Ask, the creator of Guardians of Grit. David didn't just write a book.

02:06.13

Jonathan Guerrero

He started a movement to help fathers become the intentional architects of their children's character. He's here to share his own story of discovery and to show us how we can help our kids build a grit that is rooted in deep in a deep sense of identity and mission.

02:22.16

Jonathan Guerrero

David, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.

02:24.90

David Ask

Hey, I'm absolutely thrilled to be here with you today. Thanks for having me.

02:28.95

Jonathan Guerrero

So here's my favorite question of all. What is your favorite dad joke?

02:34.74

David Ask

Oh my gosh. Now you put put me on the spot. It was funny. My my wife, it's funny. She's the one who actually loves the dad jokes. And I'm the one who remembers all the tacky ones. I shouldn't tell.

02:48.25

Jonathan Guerrero

okay

02:48.28

David Ask

But you the other day she said, what did the zero say to the eight? nice belt.

02:55.64

Jonathan Guerrero

i

02:57.30

David Ask

And of course she laughs with a really big smile and I'm like, no, sweetheart, come on. So that's the first thing that I thought of anyway.

03:05.62

Jonathan Guerrero

I love that one.

03:08.76

Jonathan Guerrero

you have any other favorites?

03:12.25

David Ask

You know, I'll be honest. I feel like my life where, you know, like life is, is better than, you know, fiction. It's, we, we, we, we are a family that is just,

03:22.81

David Ask

so you know full of nonsense and horsing around. I feel like you know our whole family super jokey and you know teasing and laughing and and goofing around. So I yeah i can't think of ah a good dad joke offhand, but man, we have a lot of fun.

03:38.06

Jonathan Guerrero

That's awesome. All right. Well, David, your work is titled Guardians of Grit. Why did you choose the word guardian? What exactly are we guarding in our children and how does that differ from being a protector?

03:52.20

David Ask

Oh, man. ah Great question. And I, you know, it's interesting on face value. I was describing this, uh, this book and this mission probably two years ago to a business partner of mine.

04:03.93

David Ask

And he's actually the one who came up with the the title of the book and, you know, kind of just threw it out there and it, you know, hit me like a ton of bricks. And i so i I'll, I'll,

04:15.37

David Ask

I'll say it this way. my My dear friend, Dr. Andy Garrett, who I work with quite a bit, he said, i asked him one day when I was writing the book early on, I said, well, what do you think the number one job of a father is? And he said, without hesitation, it's to remove as much uncertainty as possible.

04:31.19

David Ask

And I thought, what in the world? And the more I thought about that, though, is what does that look like in our, you know, the hearts of our kids, right? It's does my dad, you know, first and foremost, does he protect me?

04:44.09

David Ask

Right. Am I safe with my father? Does my father, you know, love me? You know, does he delight in me? Does he know me? Does he does he, you know, see the the the the wonderful uniqueness that God made in me? And does he, you know, does he love that? and Does he call it out?

05:01.75

David Ask

And I feel like this idea of guardian. you're, you know, na safety is kind of front and center there. But I think that the the the most

05:08.81

Jonathan Guerrero

Thank you.

05:11.26

David Ask

the what's the what's the way to make someone the most, I'll say it this way, impotent in life? What's the way to take somebody out the quickest? It's to deny or how about this, to allow the attack of those things that are most true about us.

05:34.58

David Ask

And I'm talking that beautiful thing uniqueness that God wove into you know us, those things that light us up, the desired impact that we want to have on others, our our strengths and how we want to apply those things.

05:47.48

David Ask

And if the ifs the the world, if the enemy, if my own brokenness or or even the pain from someone else can tell me that the most beautiful, powerful, and precious things about me are stupid, are invalid, are not needed, guess what?

06:04.28

David Ask

you know were taken out really early in life. And I think a guardian is so much more than just a kind of a physical protector. A guardian is one who is wise and who sees those things in others that not only need to be named but but to be cultivated.

06:21.66

David Ask

And if they're ah if they're under attack or assault, he takes action.

06:28.02

Jonathan Guerrero

Okay, well, that makes a lot of sense to me. And as you were explaining that to me, my mind was also going to, well, I didn't expect to go there, but baptism. And baptism, I know that sounds weird.

06:38.78

David Ask

You said is it baptism? Oh. Yeah.

06:44.15

Jonathan Guerrero

um The reason why is because

06:45.04

David Ask

Keep going.

06:48.66

Jonathan Guerrero

Many people associate, many Christians associate baptism with, oh, it's it's cleansing us and washing us washing is completely clean, as if the main purpose of baptism is to deal with sin.

07:02.97

Jonathan Guerrero

And that's not it at all. I'm thoroughly convinced of that, because if that's the case, then Jesus didn't need to be baptized. Why was he baptized then? Makes absolutely no sense at all.

07:12.14

David Ask

Hmm.

07:13.37

Jonathan Guerrero

So that goes out the window. Baptism has nothing to do with sin. It has everything thing to do with identity. Baptism is all about, it would be in human terms, the closest thing we can associate to baptism would be like a a Marine Corps recruit on his graduation day when his new identity is now Marine.

07:40.66

Jonathan Guerrero

And you've seen those pictures, I'm sure those videos of grown men hardened men on their graduation day a mess, crying as their drill instructor is calling a Marine and they're getting pinned and they're getting acknowledged.

07:57.98

Jonathan Guerrero

That's about as close as that gets to baptism. Baptism is everything to do with identity. More proof. What does the Father say to Jesus after he comes out of the water?

08:11.86

Jonathan Guerrero

There's your identity, my beloved son, and whom I'm pleased.

08:14.57

David Ask

And whom I'm well pleased. Yeah.

08:17.27

Jonathan Guerrero

And then what happens after that? The Holy Spirit sends him to go to war. He goes straight to war because he was baptized in the middle of a war.

08:31.99

Jonathan Guerrero

And he's ready to fight because everything, the existence of humanity, depends on him winning that battle first.

08:42.94

Jonathan Guerrero

And that first battle had everything to do with identity. So when he went to war, he went to war very clear in his identity.

08:56.35

David Ask

And I'll be honest, i beautifully well said. I've not really thought of it like that. I think it's fascinating on a very practical level, right? When someone, you know, I guess, you know, is what goes up front, right? and And whether it's the lake or whatever else, they're identifying publicly, you know, item I am taking on the promise of God, you know, to to to save me. And so I think there's a, and of course we could ride the sunbeam to the sun there,

09:25.25

David Ask

in multiple ways, but I think it's a beautiful, beautiful beautiful the way that you put that there. i'm I'm not sure quite how to say that.

09:36.89

David Ask

It's great.

09:37.24

Jonathan Guerrero

yeah The other thing that's really interesting about that is when you think about it before baptism, There's this, you know the Holy Spirit is around you. So it's not like the Holy Spirit isn't there. And then all of a sudden you're baptized and the Holy Spirit is there. And that's not true at all. The Holy Spirit's always around you, but that's just it. He's around you.

09:57.24

Jonathan Guerrero

But what's different about baptism is when you come out of the water, the Holy Spirit is literally, physically, physiologically dwelling inside of you.

10:08.98

Jonathan Guerrero

And there's a reason and purpose for that because you are going to war. You just enlisted. You just signed on the dotted line. You declared an allegiance. And don't think that the other side doesn't know it because if you were attacked before that, now you're really going to get attacked.

10:25.34

Jonathan Guerrero

The other side has been put on high notice that you are publicly opposed to them. And that you've decided you are also joining the masses, declaring war on them. So don't think you're going to, I mean, you're going get attacked worse.

10:40.98

Jonathan Guerrero

And you're going to want the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. when that attack begins and that's the difference you need the holy spirit in you you don't want the holy spirit just being around you you want him dwelling in you you want him influence your thoughts influencing your thoughts you want the mind of jesus you want all of that because you're gonna need it just like jesus needed it so that's what i find really interesting about that and on this program i've talked about it more in the context of fathers needing all of this

11:12.98

Jonathan Guerrero

But you're the first that I've known that talks about this in the context of kids, of children. Why children need need this identity and purpose.

11:25.46

David Ask

Yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, it's what's interesting is, is I think that we often look at, you know, as kids, depending on, you know, age, age appropriate, you know, type paradigms and conversations, I think we'd be surprised at how young, you know, children start really, truly understanding, you know, the difference between identity and authenticity and, you know, their role and all that kind of stuff. I think it it happens way earlier.

11:53.14

David Ask

you know, they start taking on you know, of course, all kinds of things from their parents rather quickly, whether they can, you know, put a vocabulary on it or not. But then, you know, they also start thinking, you know, those maybe nine or 10 years old even, you know, about where do I start and stop and where does the person next to me start and stop and why are we different and why is this person nice and this person is mean and you know, why does this person like basketball when this person only likes sports?

12:21.85

David Ask

you know, golfer, you know, it's like they they start to identify all these different characteristics in themselves and other people and and how we're, you know very authentically wired differently. So, yeah, I think that raising, you know, children, as it were, you know, we talk, we use that phrase all the time, but what does that mean?

12:40.22

David Ask

you know, it means causing them to rise. And by the way, I love, you know, your, your intro is rather, rather inspiring. I was taking notes as you were you know talking there with regards to if you know, a rudder and a compass and an anchor and purpose and so on. And I think it's it's really fascinating that, you know, when we get, how about this? When we when we get clear on you know, the things that define art define us, meaning, you know, how about this? We define our identity, right? We start to identify, like literally write these things down, all of the things that, you know, we find valuable

13:21.18

David Ask

in this life. I mean, from spiritual you know paradigms to you know um just kind of hierarchy of core values and convictions and you know how the strength that God gave us and how we want to apply those things and you know what gives us goosebumps and what lights us up and what drains our energy and what breaks our heart and all those. you know It's a wide variety of things that you know kind of describe the human soul and mind and so on, let alone our physical characteristics.

13:46.52

David Ask

And Here's the interesting thing, though. When we get really, really clear on that stuff and then we help our children, again, age appropriate, do the same thing, you know, it really is more more akin to GPS coordinates, you know, really specifics as opposed to a compass.

14:05.27

David Ask

You know, I get what you're saying there, too, and I like that that language, but the more specific that we get, you know, the more confidence we have, you know, on saying yes and no to things and Clarity is just just very just just vital. It's very empowering.

14:24.18

Jonathan Guerrero

Absolutely. Now, before we go too much further, there has to be a why why. Why are you doing all this? Why did you start Guardians of Grit? Why did you start writing it? So that there has to be the story behind it.

14:39.26

Jonathan Guerrero

What is your story?

14:41.53

David Ask

Yeah, so, you know, it's funny. I remember, you know, back when ah about seven years ago when I met Dr. Andy, he was asking me about, you know, why, you know, your why, like start with why, like sim Simon Sinek wrote the book, Start With Why, and it's a great book, a lot of good stuff in there.

14:55.99

David Ask

And, but here's the interesting thing. if If we start to, you know, spell out our why, like why am I doing this before we have identified the who, you know, sometimes that why looks a little bit squirrely.

15:10.81

David Ask

and so one thing that really helps me was i just started you know getting a lot more clear on i'll say it this way on whose i am right we're made in the image of god the one who made you know hurricanes and lightning and tornadoes and koala bears and everything else we're made in his image and and everyone and every all these species and everything is so different and unique and there's of course patterns and things like that but I got to get, I started to get really clear, you know, on what made me unique and what lit me up. And therefore my why started, you know, to take on a much more deeper meaning to me personally. And so with that said, i grew up in a family where, you know, I mean, Minnesota, upper Midwest, mom and dad were, you know, just wonderful people working hard, you know, standing on the shoulders of their parents, just figuring it out. And, you know, they loved us well. they've been married, think, 60 years now. and

16:07.77

David Ask

And at the same time, of course, you know, they they had to learn stuff just like I'm learning stuff and raising, you know, my kids. And it's fascinating, you know, the that the seeds that was that were planted in me growing up was I i went home to a family who, know, said, I love you.

16:25.88

David Ask

And we prayed together. And I mean, like every day, i don't remember a day that, you know, my dad or mom didn't wrap their arms around me or grab my face even till I was 18 years old.

16:36.98

David Ask

and look me in the eyes and say, I love you, David, and and kiss me on my cheek. And, you know, like we were, there was no um question that we knew we were seen and and valued.

16:51.03

David Ask

And at the same time, of course, I experienced a lot of other friends who didn't get that. And even if they're, you know, I'll just say for dads, even if their dad was present, either he, you know, was not really there, kind of checked out, or angry or abusive even.

17:07.03

David Ask

And I witnessed all of that. And so as I you know started navigating life, you know I'm 52 now, but I mean, even in my 20s and so on, I knew full well that so many people struggled you know with the with problems because they just, they didn't have a, they didn't know their worth.

17:28.46

David Ask

They didn't know who they were. They didn't have a support system of any kind. And I'm realizing that, you know, I'll get really precise here. I believe that every single thing in this world that's going wrong can be laid at the feet of men.

17:44.57

David Ask

When men lead and love with nobility and clarity and conviction and kindness, everybody wins. When men become takers, when they are insecure, you know, when they're violent, when they don't lead with love and clarity and kindness and conviction, everybody loses.

18:03.54

David Ask

And I think everything rises and falls on male leadership. And I'm on a mission to introduce men to the larger story in whose image they are made in so that they understand Dave, my buddy, David Ash says they're made of awesome.

18:20.57

David Ask

And that they begin to, you know, identify all of the things that make them, you know, noble and good and kind and unique. And when they start operating in that capacity,

18:32.12

David Ask

guess what? They're going to start feeling you know resilient and gritty and authentic. and And they're going to you know have a deeper sense of fulfillment in this life. So I think that um you know in all reality, it sounds kind of like Braveheart as I say that, but my heart is way more, i think, Narnia and C.S. Lewis and Knights in Shining Armors and you know kings and kingdoms and princesses. And I think those paradigms are the most true thing about the masculine soul than anything else. And I think if we can grab a hold of that kind of metaphor and picture, everything starts to make sense.

19:14.36

Jonathan Guerrero

Interesting because we associate those paradigms that you just mentioned as fiction when in fact we are actually living them. they They are real.

19:24.81

David Ask

Yeah.

19:26.30

Jonathan Guerrero

That is our reality that we are living in today. And so I want to back up a little further. You talked about how most of the problems in the world originate with men.

19:38.07

Jonathan Guerrero

So let's take that a step further and let's go a little deeper.

19:38.10

David Ask

Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

19:41.82

Jonathan Guerrero

I want to one-up that a little bit and and say that they originate with fathers because fathers ultimately are tasked with reflecting the image of God and modeling all of this. So somewhere there has to be a breakdown and a failure that's going on.

20:00.28

Jonathan Guerrero

And I want to go even deeper than that. and try to explore what exactly was the original intention? What is the plan? What's going on here behind the scenes?

20:14.14

Jonathan Guerrero

And i know before we started talking, in fact, before we did this episode, you and I just talked briefly off the air about that explored a little bit, where there's actually two places in scripture that uncover that for us.

20:28.73

Jonathan Guerrero

Would you mind going there a little bit?

20:28.77

David Ask

Yep.

20:31.40

David Ask

Sure. No, I mean, yeah, I love that you had mentioned the, you know, like the the Jeremiah verse where it's talking about the, you know, before I formed you, you know, and in the womb, I knew you. And what I think is just fascinating, of course, that that almost hurts the human brain to think about, right?

20:48.79

Jonathan Guerrero

For sure.

20:49.05

David Ask

But at the same time, who is saying this through the prophet Jeremiah? It's God. and And of course he can do that, right? Of course he can do that.

20:59.96

David Ask

And I love that, you know, he says that you're, you know, we're set apart. And I and just feel like the most people, you know, i would say get up in the morning and they have such a, not only a low view of themselves, right?

21:13.98

David Ask

Well, you know, that narrative that's going on inside of all of us, right? we're Let alone literally people that have been told that they're worthless or abused or something like that, right? And therefore, we then we start looking at other people like they're useless and worthless. And, you know, we start marginalizing even large people groups when when when God, you know, when he says, hold on a minute.

21:35.22

David Ask

I knew you before you were in your mother's womb and I named you. I, you know, like he knows us. And, you know, even in think it was Psalm 13. you know, 130 something where, you know, wass talking about being, you know, created it in the inmost being. And, you know, we were knit together in our mother's womb. I think that 139.

21:55.99

Jonathan Guerrero

I think it's on 139 16 and 17.

21:56.09

David Ask

Okay. Yeah. And then it goes on to say like, you're fearfully and wonderfully made. Like, mean, for heaven's sakes, can you imagine if we believed that not only for ourselves, but for those around us, you know, like Jonathan,

22:11.29

David Ask

You are fearfully and wonderfully made. What does that mean? And I, it's like, well, on face value, it is something magnificent. You know, it's, it's, so I think that that for the the creator to tell the created, whether that's, you know, of course creation and everything else, you know, that, that you're, you're wonderful. Like you're, you know, this is a good thing, right? He created all things and called them good.

22:36.70

David Ask

But what does he say about us? He says, not only did I know you in your mother's womb and I created you, guess what? I'm going to write myself into the story, come and take a seat on the floor so that you would have a seat at the table, even more so that I would become sin so that you would become righteousness.

22:55.06

David Ask

And how about this? That you would be my inheritance and that I would be yours. There is something happening here between humanity, between us humans, you know, and and God.

23:09.37

David Ask

that he has preordained, that he has said thus saith the Lord, this is the way it is. And we can't change it. our Our job is to recognize it and to start operating in alignment you know with what he said what he has said. And I tell you what, again, back to the chaos piece, right?

23:30.49

David Ask

When people think that they're worthless, when when they look at their neighbor like they're worthless, well, I mean, you know, it's like literally it's like trash. We start treating ourselves and others like trash.

23:42.55

David Ask

And when just the opposite is true, when we see magnificence in our children, when we see magnificence in the mirror, right? Love your neighbor as you love yourself. When I'm like, holy cow, you know, I'm i' am fearfully and wonderfully made.

23:56.50

David Ask

You know, we start taking upon that identity, right? We identify with that. about that? You know, the the great author who made our authenticity, who now gives us the authority to live life and to have dominion over the earth and subdue it.

24:12.41

David Ask

And I'm speaking to the men here. Like you you have been made provisioned with all of the, you know, the ability to do it and commanded to lead and to love well.

24:24.74

David Ask

Subdue the earth, right? Treat creation and the created in a dignified and beautiful way. But when we don't know that that's even a thing and we, or we have forgotten,

24:36.28

David Ask

We treat ourselves and everybody else like trash.

24:41.62

Jonathan Guerrero

i really appreciate what you're saying there yeah because if dads can't figure out their identity And they can't figure out that piece. How are they supposed to model something that they aren't experiencing and understanding?

24:55.45

David Ask

Yeah.

24:55.51

Jonathan Guerrero

And just for context, when we go back to those scripture verses, the one you mentioned in Jeremiah and also the Psalm 139, 16 and 17, both of those were written well well after the fall of man

25:09.42

David Ask

Yeah.

25:10.42

Jonathan Guerrero

This was not written when the world was perfect, when everything was perfect and before man sinned and before man fell. This was written well after.

25:21.34

Jonathan Guerrero

These are the thoughts of God towards a fallen man. towards men that are broken, men that are steeped in shame, steeped in confusion, steeped in an identity crisis.

25:34.07

David Ask

yeah

25:36.89

Jonathan Guerrero

This is what the God Almighty of the universe thinks about you and has to say about you.

25:45.86

David Ask

Yeah.

25:45.91

Jonathan Guerrero

So again, what are you afraid of? What are we confused about again?

25:50.68

David Ask

Yeah, it's a, and i think I think part of it, right, is is we're almost afraid to believe that.

25:58.86

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah.

25:58.90

David Ask

You know, it's it's like, what if it's not true?

25:58.96

Jonathan Guerrero

Yep.

26:01.91

Jonathan Guerrero

yep

26:01.98

David Ask

You know, so it takes faith. It takes faith. But here's the weird thing. There's a clue here. the deepest, I love how Tim Keller says, the deepest longing of the human soul is to be fully known and fully loved.

26:17.08

David Ask

And the deepest fear of the human soul soul is to be fully known and rejected. So, so part of, you know, us identifying with, you know, a God who is magnificent, you know, and, and made us in his image. i mean, it's by the way, i don't know about you, but i I didn't ask this, but you know, i don't know what your, if you have children and how many, I'm assuming you're a dad, right?

26:42.02

David Ask

You're doing this podcast, but I,

26:42.47

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah. yeah

26:44.26

David Ask

I've got a daughter. i mean, my son Parker is 20 years old. He's um he's a mini-me, and you know i see i see such royal beauty in that guy. And my daughter, though, right? i see I see Narnia in her. like i see I mean, she's not only a violinist.

27:01.87

David Ask

She's beautiful. She has character. i mean, she's kind. I'm just You know, she just melts my heart. So it's so easy for me to see, of course, God made you.

27:14.65

David Ask

Of course, the one who made Neptune and and lightning and, you know, seahorses. mean, like, of course, he made you. And yet it's hard to believe that about myself some days or most days.

27:30.17

Jonathan Guerrero

How do we help our children discover their unique purpose without putting pressure on them to have their whole life figured out by the age of 12, for example?

27:39.86

David Ask

yeah Yeah, that's a great question. And, you know, I think that obviously the call to, you know, to us is to be not to be famous, but to be faithful. You know, it's it's to it's to not be, you know, let the American dream, as it were, which I'm grateful for in a lot of ways, you know, become, you know, something that it shouldn't be, right? It's just a context.

28:01.21

David Ask

You know, this life is kind of a context to experience God and and relationships in. So I think that for you know age appropriate, it's amazing you know when you just start asking your children you know questions as they grow, they start to begin to identify those things in them that you know cause their energy to rise and they get excited about, there's clues here.

28:21.62

David Ask

you know And what problem do you wanna solve if you could stamp something out? and you know And again, they might be thinking second grade or 10th grade for that matter, but you know as they get into their late teens and early 20s and so on,

28:34.49

David Ask

you know, some of those things start to get way more clear way, you know, way quicker.

28:41.30

Jonathan Guerrero

Most dads say good job. What are the identity first phrases that a father should be using to reinforce who a child is rather than just what they did?

28:52.54

David Ask

Yeah, I think that like stuff, like if you if you validate someone's character over, you know, just a compliment, like for instance, if you just said, hey, you know, my son's Parker, like,

29:03.74

David Ask

Hey, Parker, I noticed how you showed up yesterday you know with your friend. i love that you – and be really specific. I love that you saw that he was kind of hurting and you know you entered into those waters with him.

29:16.44

David Ask

want you to know that's a good thing. like So to see something and say something where you know they are exercising a deeper part of their heart.

29:26.24

Jonathan Guerrero

How does a dad, how does guardian of grit coach a child through a major failure so that it builds their identity instead of shattering it?

29:35.80

David Ask

I would say that the the the first first and foremost is is that it's presupposing that our children have a safe place to launch from and swing for the fence.

29:47.99

David Ask

and and And it's understood that the outcomes do not belong to us. Meaning you can try out for the basketball team and you can do all these things and there there might be a ah whole host of reasons why you didn't make it on the team or you didn't get that job or, you know, whatever that might be. And that paradigm, as we know, does not change even throughout adulthood. There's so many things that I've strived for that i didn't get.

30:14.14

David Ask

and but guess what? the the The fact of the matter is, is that, um oh how about this? This is a very practical, but poignant paradigm during COVID. Look at all the people that just launched a business or a restaurant or,

30:28.79

David Ask

you know they They applied for whatever college it was and you know i mean were supposed to play D1 basketball or whatever it might have been, and now college was canceled. And their whole life took a different know trajectory. Well, there's not much difference between those types of events that we cannot control and the fact that there's so much more going behind on behind the scenes.

30:51.03

David Ask

you know, with getting on a team or whatever it might be. It might not be that you're, you know, that you're not good enough. It might be that, hey, these other players already had, you know, were given a yes. So there could be some kind of shenanigans behind why something didn't work out.

31:04.89

David Ask

And I think the larger paradigm there is that, you know, we trust, again, I love love Tim Keller. If we knew what God knew, we would want what he wants.

31:15.96

David Ask

So we we we coach our children and our own hearts for that matter, and the fact that we believe God is sovereign, he's providential, and he is really good. All

31:28.51

Jonathan Guerrero

All right, so this is the frustrating part.

31:29.05

David Ask

right.

31:30.75

Jonathan Guerrero

We're always against the clock, so there's no way we were going to be able to scratch the surface. So we try to just get some of the bits and pieces of Guardians of the Grit that can that you can just hit the ground with and and start.

31:44.50

Jonathan Guerrero

seeing some results from that now, but there's no way it's going to be enough. You're, you're going to have to get guardians of grit to be able to get everything. And I can promise you, you are are not going to be disappointed. So speaking of which, how can dads find your book and learn more about what you're doing?

32:01.53

David Ask

Yeah, well, thank you. And by the way, the book is not quite launched yet. I would encourage them to go to theaskexperience.com. So my last name is Ask, A-S-K, I'm having a little fun with my last name.

32:17.11

David Ask

And we're we're launching the Ask Experience podcast and so on. And if you go to theaskexperience.com, you'll find more information there. And I And by the way, the reason that we're we're calling it the ask experience and not the ask experience is because what are we doing? We're asking the right questions in order to remove question marks.

32:38.23

David Ask

Because if you walk into a room and you've got a bunch of question marks inside of you, you feel it and so does everybody around you. And it's not a recipe for a beautiful life.

32:48.95

Jonathan Guerrero

Just to make things easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

32:53.51

David Ask

Yeah.

32:55.57

Jonathan Guerrero

And if you go to this episode and you're looking for the episode called Guardians of Grit, Guardians of Grit, go to that episode, look right below the episode description, and I will have the links that David just mentioned posted right there for your convenience.

33:11.64

Jonathan Guerrero

David, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

33:16.66

David Ask

You know, I would say have the courage to see the the deeper places in your children. Ask them a lot of great questions and and just to let them know, hey, I see you and I love what I see.

33:31.35

David Ask

do not hold back on bushshy gushy, gushy, know, lavish, meaningful love for your children that that looks like something that's very touchable.

33:47.94

Jonathan Guerrero

We've spent this hour with David Aske and the takeaway is clear. You are the mirror in which your children see their potential. If you want your kids to be courageous, you have to give them a reason to be.

33:59.80

Jonathan Guerrero

You have to help them build an identity that is more stable than the culture and a purpose that is bigger than their fear. Being a durable dad means being a guardian of grit, someone who stands watch over the heart of the child so they can eventually stand on their own.

34:16.64

Jonathan Guerrero

Tonight, don't just ask your child how their day was. Ask them who they want to be in the face of a challenge. Help them find their why and the how it will take care of itself.

34:30.10

Jonathan Guerrero

A huge thank you to David Aske for his vision and his work with Guardians of Grit. You can find his book and the resources to help the kids live courageously at davidoske.com or at the link that's mentioned at the bottom of the episode description. Until next time, stay durable, stay intentional, and remember that the greatest gift that you can give your child is the knowledge of who they truly are.

34:54.99

Jonathan Guerrero

We'll see you in the next episode.

You can email Ed Dickerson at: edickers@netins.net and write "homeschool inquiry" in the subject line and ask for his free guide book resource that has helped so many families.

To be a guest on The Fatherhood Challenge visit: https://podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

Ed Dickerson didn't just lobby; he mastered the art of the 'Unlikely Alliance.' He understood that to win, you have to speak the language of both sides of the aisle. He navigated the halls of the Iowa Statehouse, building a bipartisan coalition that put parental rights above party lines. He used the tools of diplomacy, persistence, and razor-sharp strategy to rewrite the future of Iowa education that many today take for granted. You will hear part of his story in this episode. Part 2 will be continued in the next episode.

You can email Ed Dickerson at: edickers@netins.net and write "homeschool inquiry" in the subject line and ask for his free guide book resource that has helped so many families.

To be a guest on The Fatherhood Challenge visit: https://podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

If our faith doesn't have 'boots on the ground' in the mundane moments of fatherhood, it won't have any weight when our kids hit the storms of their own lives. We have to move from being 'church day Believers' to 'Everyday Priests' of our own households.

James Moffitt is the founder of Father’s Refuge. James has dedicated his life to helping men build a spiritual sanctuary within their own four walls. He’s here to talk about the 'Practical Priesthood'—how to model a faith that is durable, relatable, and, most importantly, worth following.

You can visit Father's Refuge, listen to his podcast and connect with James here: https://www.fathersrefuge.com/

To be a guest on The Fatherhood Challenge visit: https://podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

00:03.35

Jonathan Guerrero

We often talk about faith as if it's we talk about faith as if it's a church morning event. A set of beliefs we pull out of the drawer once a week. But for a father, faith isn't a ceremony.

00:16.12

Jonathan Guerrero

It's the invisible infrastructure of the home. It's the framework that determines how you handle a lost job, how you respond to disrespectful teenagers, and how you treat your wife when you're both exhausted at 6 p.m. on a Tuesday.

00:30.58

Jonathan Guerrero

The reality is that our kids aren't listening to our lectures. They are watching our lives. They are looking to see if the God we talk about in the car is the same one who influences our patients in the kitchen.

00:44.18

Jonathan Guerrero

If our faith doesn't have boots on the ground in the mundane moments of fatherhood, it won't have any weight when our kids hit the storms of their own lives. We have to move from being church day believers to everyday priests of our own households. My guest is going to take us to school on how we can do that in just a moment. So don't go anywhere.

01:48.50

Jonathan Guerrero

Greetings, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. My co-host Isaac has the day off. He gets the day off all the time. I think it's part of the perks of the organization while I got to go to work. Just kidding. This doesn't feel like work to me. I really enjoy being here or i wouldn't waste my time and yours. Today, we are joined by James Moffitt, the founder of Father's Refuge. James has dedicated his life to helping men build a spiritual sanctuary within their own four walls. He's here to talk about the practical priesthood, how to model a faith that is durable, reliable, and most importantly, worth following.

02:26.23

Jonathan Guerrero

James, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.

02:30.17

James Moffitt

Jonathan, thank you for having me on your show.

02:34.01

Jonathan Guerrero

So here's my favorite question. What is your favorite dad joke?

02:39.29

James Moffitt

Oh my, I have a whole bunch. Let's see.

02:43.06

Jonathan Guerrero

Awesome. The more the better.

02:45.43

James Moffitt

Okay. How many do you want?

02:48.65

Jonathan Guerrero

Let's start with two.

02:50.23

James Moffitt

Okay. So, so why did the, why did the coach go to the bank?

02:55.45

Jonathan Guerrero

Why did the coach go to the bank? I'm not really sure.

03:00.18

James Moffitt

To get his quarterback.

03:05.75

Jonathan Guerrero

I love that one. What's the next one?

03:10.01

James Moffitt

so So why are football stadiums always hot after the game?

03:16.41

Jonathan Guerrero

have no idea.

03:18.55

James Moffitt

All the fans leave.

03:19.93

Jonathan Guerrero

for it. I have no idea.

03:23.90

James Moffitt

ah got I got one more good one.

03:25.50

Jonathan Guerrero

go for it

03:27.99

James Moffitt

Why did the Scarecrow win an award?

03:32.38

Jonathan Guerrero

have no idea

03:34.46

James Moffitt

He was outstanding in his field.

03:39.80

Jonathan Guerrero

You are on a roll, James.

03:42.87

James Moffitt

Yeah, I have about 30 of them.

03:44.70

Jonathan Guerrero

That's awesome.

03:46.17

James Moffitt

Yeah.

03:48.57

Jonathan Guerrero

Well, James, when men hear the word priest or spiritual leader, they often think of a pulpit or a robe. How do you define a father's practical priesthood in the context of changing oil or disciplining a toddler or managing a household budget?

04:07.70

James Moffitt

um I think that ah think that our faith is made up of, um I guess I would say that it's where the rubber meets the road. i mean, we we read the Bible, we go to church, we go to Bible study.

04:27.95

James Moffitt

You know, I've been saved since I was... uh, 17 years old and now I'm 64 and, and I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior by chopping block out in the woods.

04:40.92

James Moffitt

And a friend of mine's father was a, he was a, um, voluntary, voluntary firefighter and chaplain for the fire department in Quinlan, Texas.

04:53.05

James Moffitt

And, uh, I had a, I had a pretty rough childhood and the Lord put some Christian believers, uh, in my, uh, class, you know, I was in high school and, you know, middle school class, you know, high school. And, and anyway, I had a rough, a rough in my teenage years were kind of rough and, uh, God saw fit to put some, uh, believers in my path. And, uh,

05:23.51

James Moffitt

I was always hanging out with him. I was like a, you know, i was like ah a moth drawn to a flame. And I didn't know. i didn't i didn't know anything about it. you know I just knew that I was attracted to those those kids. and And now looking back, I know it was the Holy Spirit that was drawing me to them.

05:43.48

James Moffitt

And they spoke life into me, and they encouraged me, and they told me about Jesus. And they told me that you know my life was worth something and that God had a plan for my life.

05:56.82

James Moffitt

and that all culminated in that moment when I was, you know, out in the woods with, I guess, Ida Colombrito's dad. I don't remember what his name is or was. He's no longer with us. But he led me in the sinner's prayer, and and I didn't understand the theology of all of that.

06:18.52

James Moffitt

But I knew that a weight was lifted off my shoulders and that, you know, I knew that Jesus was the Lord of my life and that my sins were forgiven And my parents, who were secular parents, did not appreciate that. And they didn't, they were like, I told them I was saved. And they were like, saved what from drowning?

06:36.57

James Moffitt

And I actually was forbidden to associate myself with them because my parents thought that they were quacks, you know, religious zealots, whatever you want to say.

06:47.45

James Moffitt

so anyway, um... I got saved and um got out of high school, moved to Houston, Texas when I was 18, 19 years old. And I went through a period of time where i had a ah saved in heaven card or or admit one to heaven, right? It was a little, just a little salvation card I had in my wallet that I would pull out. And, and I had a situation where

07:20.22

James Moffitt

I lost my job, lost my place to live, didn't have a car. I wound up under a bridge ah with three plastic bags to my name, wound up at the Star of Hope Mission, and i had to listen to the salvation message before I could go eat and before they would let us out to go look for work.

07:39.64

James Moffitt

And i kept asking i kept kept asking god I'm like, why me Lord? What have what have i done to deserve this? And in 45 days, you know, you you you listen to the, you know, you did, the churches would come in and they do the singing, they bring the gospel message. You could talk to counselors.

07:59.54

James Moffitt

So anyway, one day i got the message and the still quiet voice in my heart said, James, it's not what you have done. It's what you haven't done. And i was like, well, what do you mean? I've accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. i understand the gospel.

08:15.06

James Moffitt

i read the Bible all the time. i understand all of this. And so basically I was told it's not what you haven't done. It's not what you've done. It's what you haven't done.

08:25.75

James Moffitt

And what I hadn't done was was that my my name was written in the Lamb's Book of Life and that God had a purpose for my life. And his purpose was for me to follow him and to to live his will, to let his will become alive in my life. And that was an epiphany.

08:42.94

James Moffitt

Now, I guess I was about 22, 23 years old when I had that, a I guess you could call it a Damascus Road experience. and And so I was able to get off the streets. I was able to get a job as a security officer way back when, went on to get into law enforcement,

09:02.62

James Moffitt

And so my wife and I got married in May the 21st of 1990. Now, this was my second wife.

09:14.59

James Moffitt

My first wife and I were married for about a year and a half to two years. We were really young. We should have never gotten married. But we had a son named Jeremy. from that marriage who passed away in January of 2025.

09:29.82

James Moffitt

And so anyway, that, that relationship just kind of burned on the side of the road. And, um, it was, ah it was basically a dump dumpster fire.

09:42.17

James Moffitt

But anyway, my current wife and I, we've been married almost 36 years. We've had four children. And when I got married to Katie, of Our first daughter, Jessica, who also has passed away in 2001, she was a premature child, and she was like, i don't know,

10:07.06

James Moffitt

I want to say three months and two days or something like that. She was a little tiny thing. And she was at the women's hospital in Houston, Texas. My wife and I met, we met in a first Baptist church, Katie freeway.

10:20.41

James Moffitt

This is like the second largest Baptist church in Houston. And when when you become a father, you don't get a manual. you know, they pat you on the head, they wrap the baby in the, you know, in the blanket and they, you know, they kind of look for danger signs or whatever to make sure you're not going to do anything stupid. And, and, you know, they give you the kid and send you on your way. There's no manual. And as you know, uh, uh, you can forget sleep for a while.

10:51.70

James Moffitt

You know, you have a crying baby on your hands or colicky. They're, know, they're, all sorts of things happen, you know, with children and with babies, especially. And so you just kind of wing You, unless you're fortunate to have grandparents that can, that you can go to, to talk to and say, Hey, what am I supposed to do about this or whatever?

11:12.02

James Moffitt

And I chase rabbits a lot. So you you may have to drag me back out onto the, onto the road. But ah anyway, um i really forgot your question. What was your question?

11:26.74

Jonathan Guerrero

How do you define a father's practical priesthood in the context of changing the oil and disciplining a child or managing a household budget? So basically the everyday mundane things.

11:39.83

James Moffitt

Well, like I told you, like I told you earlier, um hindsight's 20-20, and I can, I'm an expert at telling fathers what not to do.

11:51.99

James Moffitt

Not necessarily an expert on what to do, you know, and I've kind of, I kind of learned as I went, and, um, you wind up, you wind up raising your children like you were raised because that's, what's kind of baked into our psyche. Right.

12:09.85

James Moffitt

And, uh, because I was raised by secular parents, uh, I have still had a lot of that in me and I, luckily I had the Holy spirit in me that was able to give me guidance when I would run off the road, you know, and turn into a raging dumpster fire.

12:28.86

James Moffitt

and um, I guess I would say that that all of your all of the knowledge that you have in your head about the Bible, it's really kind of worthless unless you can put it into action.

12:46.46

James Moffitt

and And so I knew, you know, when we started having children, on you that ah knew that I had the propensity to properly act In other words, my father didn't my father didn't demonstrate love towards us as kids. We were adopted from an orphanage in Germany.

13:06.84

James Moffitt

My adoptive parents provided a roof over our heads. They provided food, new school clothes, school books, all everything that we needed physically, they provided. But they didn't provide the love. They didn't demonstrate love towards us as children. Does that make sense?

13:23.32

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah. Yeah, it does.

13:24.89

James Moffitt

So...

13:25.40

Jonathan Guerrero

It does make a lot of sense. So you're just reacting in your parenting journey to your own experience of of how you grew up.

13:35.03

James Moffitt

Right.

13:34.97

Jonathan Guerrero

But so when you look back retroactively, were there are moments where you think the Holy Spirit was teaching you as you were parenting and then helping you really correct some things and make some different decisions?

13:51.13

James Moffitt

Well, what I did as as a young father is I learned, i I knew that I knew that I knew that I didn't want to, I didn't want to be heavy handed and I didn't want to be yelling or screaming at my children.

14:04.06

James Moffitt

I didn't want to be reacting in in anger. And so I started listening to James Dobson. And he's a Christian psychologist, and he has a lot of great material on parenting. And I started listening to that on a regular basis. And so I i sort of learned how to be a good father to my children through the things I was learning through James Dobson. And also, you know, at the same time, I'm going to church, reading my Bible, listening to Bible studies, ah and all of that sort of thing. And and so so that that helped me tremendously when it came to to demonstrating love towards my children. Now, was I a perfect father? No.

14:46.81

James Moffitt

by no stretch of the imagination. Did I make mistakes? Absolutely. Did I, did I react in anger sometimes when the kids did something silly or stupid? Yes, I did. and there were there were, there were times that I had to ask for forgiveness.

15:05.56

James Moffitt

I had to go to my kids. I had to go to my wife and go, you know, I didn't react correctly in that in that situation. I should have reacted differently. And i should have I should have had more patience and I should have shown a little more mercy and grace towards my children that I did.

15:23.93

James Moffitt

you know and and so and i I also my children. i also exercised a lot of transparency with my children And I sat them down and I let them know, hey, you know, when I was 21 years old, I was a dumpster fire. Or or when I was 16 or 17 years old, I was a dumpster fire. And this is what I did. These are the mistakes that I made.

15:45.24

James Moffitt

and And these are things that I want you to know about me so that hopefully you don't make those mistakes.

15:54.10

Jonathan Guerrero

I love that you were so open with your kids, so vulnerable with them about your own past. A lot of dads are really ashamed to talk about their mistakes to their kids.

16:05.56

Jonathan Guerrero

And I think that a lot of kids really respect their dads for being able to be so open because I think there's an unspoken understanding that the intention behind that vulnerability is because the dads really love them and want them to avoid those same mistakes and to live long and have a successful life. So I think that's really awesome that you are willing to do that.

16:32.70

James Moffitt

Well, we we what do we want what do fathers want for their children? they want they want our they We want our children to have it better than we had it. We don't want them to make the same mistakes.

16:43.10

Jonathan Guerrero

eggs Exactly. i heard it once said, that a father is the only person in a man's life the only person in a man's life who wants his son to be better than him than he was no other male in your life wants you better than them only your father

17:11.99

James Moffitt

Right. I agree.

17:16.02

Jonathan Guerrero

You said that a father's actions are his child's first Bible. If your kids only had your reactions to stress and failure to judge God by, what kind of God would they believe in? How do you make a durable reflection from that experience?

17:34.71

James Moffitt

Well, I mean, how do we how do we oh How do we teach children grace? How do we teach them mercy? How do we teach them compassion?

17:46.84

James Moffitt

How do we teach them the importance of truth? How do we teach them what it means to be a good husband? How do we, especially for boys or young men, how do we teach them how important it is to respect our wives and to treat them the way that the Bible says that we should treat them?

18:09.11

James Moffitt

And the only way to do that is not lip service. Yeah, we can we can preach to our children. We can teach them. We can say, oh don't do as I do. Do as I say. But, you know, kids are like sponges, and they watch every single thing that you say and do.

18:27.80

James Moffitt

And I believe that... we should be cognizant of that fact and that we should, we should model those characteristics in front of our children so that they, they will see what the truth is.

18:45.02

James Moffitt

Right. Because if we, if we have the motto or if we say, don't do as I do, do as I say, then we're, then we're, we're teaching them,

18:58.03

James Moffitt

a duality. We're teaching them something wrong. You know, it's, it's, it's not right. You know, especially for, especially if we're in Christ and if we're, we're believers in Christ and we're followers of Jesus, then, then we should be, you know, exhibiting the fruits of the spirit that it talks about in Corinthians, love, joy, peace, gentleness.

19:21.72

James Moffitt

I don't have them all memorized anymore, but you know what I'm talking about.

19:26.23

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And when I look at that text, I've had to reread it a few times. And there's one detail in that text that all the times I've read it, I've missed.

19:39.64

Jonathan Guerrero

And it's the fact that nowhere in that scripture text does it say that you produce the fruits. It's not you.

19:49.33

James Moffitt

Right, exactly.

19:49.93

Jonathan Guerrero

It's the Holy Spirit that produces that fruit in you.

19:50.78

James Moffitt

Right.

19:54.36

Jonathan Guerrero

So you have one job and one job alone. And your job is to ask for the Holy Spirit, to renew your mind with the Holy Spirit every single day. And then just let go, just trust and have faith that the Holy Spirit will do what was promised and produce that fruit in you. And then you look back on your day and not everything will be perfect because you're a human being, a sinful human being still, but you'll still be able to look back and see elements in your day where there was grace,

20:23.45

Jonathan Guerrero

where you were gentle when normally that's not your nature, where you had self-control when normally you're impulsive. So you'll be able to see all of those fruits. And then little by little each day, as you develop that as a habit, you really begin to grow.

20:40.28

Jonathan Guerrero

And then as a father, as you're exercising that, like your kids going to be watching that too. So when you're open about your own journey in trying to have that fruit produced in you,

20:52.22

Jonathan Guerrero

and you're And the kids see, they see you taking those steps. They're going to feel more confident that they can do the same thing. So I think that's a really big part of that silent sermon that you preach, where you model it for them instead of just teaching them verbally.

21:14.39

Jonathan Guerrero

Your organization is called Father's Refuge. In a culture that is increasingly chaotic and often hostile to faith, how does a dad practically turn his four walls into that refuge where his kids feel spiritually safe?

21:32.12

James Moffitt

Well, I created, ah created father's refuge because of our loss of our daughter to cancer back in 2001. And i wanted a safe place for fathers to be able to talk about the loss and the grief and the emotions and, how their households are flipped upside down and all of that.

21:57.66

James Moffitt

um

22:00.59

James Moffitt

And I as I think about that mission and that vision and to try to answer your question, i think that i think that fathers, and I think the home, the home itself, the father's the head of the the household, right? And so i think that I think fathers should be creating a safe haven or a refuge for their families, for the wife, for the children,

22:28.12

James Moffitt

And there's this there's a something something that I learned early on in ministry, and it's this thing called compassion. And I have it written in all of my Bibles, and are most of them anyway. And it says, people don't care how much you know and until they know how much how much you care.

22:45.89

Jonathan Guerrero

I love that quote.

22:47.29

James Moffitt

Yeah, people don't people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. So so what that means is is that we can't beat people up with with the Bible. The Bible is not an offensive weapon that we can use to to badger people or judge people or frighten people into the kingdom.

23:09.11

James Moffitt

And so I learned that we're supposed to be the feet the hands and feet of Jesus, not only not only to our families, but to our coworkers, to the people we go to church with. We go to the gym, to the grocery store.

23:22.62

James Moffitt

God places us in a community, and we are to be the hands and feet of Jesus to everybody. And what does what does Paul say? He says we should be all things to all people. And, and had a pastor, a friend of mine, we went to, it was Grace Fellowship Church in Goose Creek. And we went there for 15 or 16 years. And he was the pastor there when we lost our daughter to cancer. And um during one of our men's breakfast meetings, he asked me if I understood what the, what the, what was it called?

23:57.24

James Moffitt

Oh, psychology of need. And I was like, no, I don't think I really understand that. And he said, the psychology of need is is if somebody comes to you and they have a need and you don't meet that need and all you do is you preach at them or preach to them.

24:14.07

James Moffitt

He says, they if they're hungry, you need to feed them. if they need If they need clothes if they need to clothes washed, wash their clothes, give them clothes. You know, if you if they need if they need somebody to love on them, then you love on them.

24:27.80

James Moffitt

And he says, until you do those things, those people are not going to hear anything you have to say. And that's that all that all wraps back around to we're supposed to be the the hands and feet of Jesus to our wives, our children, to all the people in our community.

24:35.63

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah.

24:47.83

James Moffitt

And and will we get it right all the time, every day? No, because we're human and we make mistakes. But we learn from those mistakes and we go to God we say, God, please forgive me of my sin.

24:59.26

James Moffitt

Help me to turn away from that sin and help me to to do your will. Help me to be who you want me to be be today.

25:08.63

Jonathan Guerrero

What should a father do when his child asks a hard question about faith that he doesn't know the answer to? Is it weaker to admit you don't know? or is it actually a form of spirit of spiritual leadership?

25:22.58

James Moffitt

I think it's okay for a father to be honest, but you can't, you you can't say, i don't know. without working with the child and say, and just say, i don't know, son or daughter or whatever.

25:37.46

James Moffitt

i don't know, but I know who does know, you know, and you can get your Bible out. You know, we've got access to artificial intelligence. We have, you know, we've got, you know, all sorts of literature and Bible study aids and all of that. And we can use that as a teaching moment, not only for ourselves, but but for our children. we can we can We can show them the importance of finding out what the truth is.

26:04.18

Jonathan Guerrero

I love that because then that moment actually turns into a Bible study that you both do together.

26:11.21

James Moffitt

Right.

26:14.46

Jonathan Guerrero

How does a dad model a prayer life that isn't just a wish list to God, but a tactical conversation about guidance and strength? Should kids see us on our knees or is that too private?

26:28.36

James Moffitt

I think it's twofold. I think... I think, you know, either we're either going to be a glass half empty or half half full, or, or you know, the best situation would be you want our glass to be full. And what I'm talking about is is that we can't teach the importance of prayer to our children if we don't have a prayer life.

26:55.90

James Moffitt

But if we have a if we have a good prayer life and and we work at ah consistency in our own prayer life, then we'll be able to teach our our children the importance of that consistency and of of that being consistent in prayer and talking to God every day and asking asking God for protection or whatever that

27:22.58

James Moffitt

you know, whatever the need is in our lie in their lives or whatever. ah And I also want to say that, you know, God is not a grocery store. We can't always just go to him because we want things, you know, blab it, grab it sort of mentality.

27:38.36

James Moffitt

You know, ah we have to teach them that sometimes when we ask God for things or ask him to open doors and situations in our life, His timing is not our timing.

27:51.06

James Moffitt

You know, we have to be we have to be patient and reverent and ah wait on on God to teach us what we need to learn in that moment and be able to walk turn the doorknob and open it when he opens doors for us.

28:11.37

Jonathan Guerrero

At Father's Refuge, you focus on the journey of manhood. What are some spiritual milestones a dad should be looking to mark his children's lives as they grow towards independence? I think one that personally comes to mind would be baptism.

28:28.82

James Moffitt

Yeah, think I think baptism is important in that it it tells the world that, hey, at one point in my life I was dead to sin, but now I'm reborn.

28:42.81

James Moffitt

ah You know, the act of going under the water and coming back up is is a a manifestation of God's rejuvenating us and filling us with the Holy Spirit and and making a new creature out of us.

28:57.72

James Moffitt

And i think that that is an important milestone in a child's life. And i think that, I think it's important that children um grow in grace and grow in maturity and they're, you know,

29:18.30

James Moffitt

What does the Bible says say? It says that we're we are we're no longer children, that we should stop acting like children and we start should start acting like you know godly men and godly women. and And I think that's, again, something that mom and dad need to model in the and the the household so that kids can see that.

29:41.21

Jonathan Guerrero

James, how can dads listening find father's refuge and what resources will they find there?

29:48.54

James Moffitt

ah They go to the website, fathersrefuge.com, and it's got all the information there. All the episodes are there. And what will they find there? They will find stories of fathers who have walked through um the loss ah of their children or their wives, you know, loss and grief, basically. And they'll find, prayer is they'll find hope.

30:18.01

James Moffitt

And they will understand that life is not over for them and that they can move on and, you know, they can um lean on their faith.

30:29.46

James Moffitt

if If they are the type of people, if they're born again, if they're if they're Christians and obviously they they have ah their faith in God and And ah we also encourage them to, you know, dial 211 and get a hold of um um United Way and find out what programs are out there that can help them. And and there's in the South, there's a church on every corner. So you can always start going, you know, to church and see what kind of pastoral care programs that they might have to help them.

31:00.89

Jonathan Guerrero

One of the things I'm really passionate about is making resources available to fathers. So if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

31:12.22

Jonathan Guerrero

If you go to this episode and you are

31:19.66

Jonathan Guerrero

are looking for the episode called James Moffitt on Modeling Faith, James Moffitt on Modeling Faith. Look for that episode. Go right below the episode description. And I'm going to have the link to Father's Refuge posted right there for your convenience.

31:36.09

Jonathan Guerrero

So James, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

31:42.94

James Moffitt

Well, it's funny you would ask that because I put some thought into that recently. And so i would just tell fathers to love your children, to be the hands and feet of Jesus to them, love them, demonstrate love to them, hug them, let them sit in your lap.

32:02.68

James Moffitt

You know, fathers, fathers are, we're kind of geared towards preparing our children for real life. for entering out into the world and getting jobs and going to college and do all, doing all of these things and helping them to mature and do all of this stuff and learn all of these skills.

32:22.10

James Moffitt

But I think, I think the important thing is, is that, you know, i our children are human and they're, they're not perfect and they're going to make mistakes. So, you know, don't do what I did.

32:35.96

James Moffitt

You know, d do whatever you can to love them and support them and help them to ah move into, you know, being a young adult, you know, 16, 17, 18, into their 20s. And fathers, we're always going to be a father. Even though our kids may move out of our house, they may go to college, they may get a job, they may may move across the country. or whatever, always be available to them, whether it's an email, a phone call, whatever. just

33:07.13

James Moffitt

Just always be there for your kids and love them, no matter what.

33:14.11

Jonathan Guerrero

I've had a great conversation with James Moffitt and the message is clear. Your family's faith isn't built in the sanctuary. It's built in the living room. You are the priest of your home, the architect of your family's spiritual infrastructure. Whether you feel qualified or not, your kids are looking to you to see if the faith you claim is a durable foundation or just a decorative addition.

33:39.16

Jonathan Guerrero

Tonight, Don't worry about having the perfect theological answer. Just show up. Lead the prayer. Share the struggles and let your kids see a man who follows a king.

33:52.98

Jonathan Guerrero

Your presence is the first sermon that they will ever believe. A massive, massive thank you to James Moffitt for his work at Father's Refuge. You can find his resources at thefatherhoodchallenge.com right below this episode description.

34:07.93

Jonathan Guerrero

And join the mission at fathersrefuge.com. Until next time, stay durable, stay faithful, and remember that you are building a legacy that will echo for generations.

34:20.34

Jonathan Guerrero

We will see you in the next episode.



When we talk about Emotional Intelligence, or EQ, we aren't talking about being 'soft.' We’re talking about being an Emotional Anchor. Your kids are looking at you to see how a man handles frustration, how he navigates disappointment, and how he reconciles after a mistake. If you can’t lead your own heart, you can’t expect to lead theirs. My guest will explain why and how every dad can learn to be a soothing presence in his house and how this helps teach emotional language to their kids so they act out less.

Dr. David Marcus, the founder of ParentRx is a seasoned professional in clinical psychology with a strong background in research, therapy, and community engagement. He earned his Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology from the University of Louisville. Dr. Marcus is a veteran in the field of family dynamics who helps parents move from 'Reactive' to 'Intentional.

You can visit Parent RX at: http://parentrx.org/

Email Dr. Marcus at dsmarcusphd@parentrx.org

To be a guest on The Fatherhood Challenge visit: https://podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge





Jody Hill is a confidence coach and an expert in child development who helps parents move from 'The Rescuer' to 'The Resource.' She’s here to show us how to pivot our fatherhood strategy, moving from fixing the problem to forming the child.

Get the free Confidence Boosters & Busters Guide here: https://podcast.itsjodyhill.com/

To learn more about Jody's work and get her book visit: https://www.itsjodyhill.com/

Follow Jody on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/jodyhillparenting/

To be a guest on The Fatherhood Challenge visit: https://podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

00:02.62

Jonathan Guerrero

As fathers, our biological our biological hardwiring is set to fix. When we see our children struggle we see our child struggling with a math problem, fumbling with their shoelaces, or facing a social conflict in the playground, every instinct in our body screams at us to step in.

00:20.98

Jonathan Guerrero

We want to be the hero. We want to be the protector who soothes the path and smooths out the path and removes the pain. We think we're being good dads. We think we're showing them love.

00:33.34

Jonathan Guerrero

But what our help is actually But what if our help is actually an act of sabotage? Every time we step in too early, we steal the wind from our children. We take away the moment where they realize they are capable, resilient, and resourceful.

00:49.62

Jonathan Guerrero

When we remove the obstacle, we inadvertently send a message, I don't think you can handle this without me. Over time, that well-intentioned protection builds a foundation of self-doubt rather than self-confidence.

01:03.22

Jonathan Guerrero

So how are we supposed to just bypass our fixing nature and how are we supposed to know when it's appropriate for us to do so? Our guest is going to bring some answers in just a moment, so don't go anywhere.

01:58.50

Jonathan Guerrero

Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me and my son and co-host Isaac. Hello everyone. Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge. Today we are also joined by our guest Jody Hill. Jody is a confidence coach and an expert in child development who helps parents move from the rescuer to the resource.

02:16.21

Jonathan Guerrero

She's here to show us how to pivot our fatherhood strategy, moving from fixing the problem to forming the child to forming the child. Jody, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.

02:26.84

Jody

Hey guys, thank you so much for having me. i absolutely love what you guys are doing on this podcast and I'm so glad to be here.

02:35.00

Jonathan Guerrero

Jody, the first question burning on my mind and probably the minds of listeners is how in the world did you get the passion to become a confidence coach? There has to be a story. What is that story?

02:48.38

Jody

So it really began when i was going through a really tough challenge when my kids were young. So i was going through a divorce and my youngest was two and I had three-year-old, almost five-year-old and an almost seven-year-old. So really little children.

03:06.33

Jody

And the divorce at this point was inevitable. And what really got me started on this journey was hearing these divorce statistics about children, like children of divorced homes will be like X, Y, Z. And it was so negative. And I was like, okay, I see this as the reality And this is something that's really hard that I'm going to have to navigate my children through.

03:32.57

Jody

And yet it doesn't have to be their demise. And this is also life, right? Like life is going to have really hard things and it's going to have challenges.

03:43.29

Jody

So I was, you know, asking myself, how can I raise children who are confident, who are capable, and who can thrive through life's challenges. And that is really what started me on this journey.

03:58.78

Jody

And of like seeing, okay, what tools do I have? Do I need to get? Do I need to learn to really equip my children? And that's what led me to my messaging and writing a book on this because I, as I was learning these resources and tools, I knew that it was so powerful for other parents to grasp this as well.

04:18.98

Jody

So that is what started me on my journey.

04:24.36

Jonathan Guerrero

That's really cool. That's really cool. And it turned into a book as well. We're definitely gonna have to talk about that more later on in the episode.

04:31.54

Jody

Yeah. Yeah.

04:31.64

Jonathan Guerrero

We often tell ourselves that we're stepping in to save them from frustration or failure.

04:37.02

Jody

Yeah.

04:37.08

Jonathan Guerrero

What is the long term cost of safety that a child pays when they never have to navigate a difficult moment alone?

04:45.53

Jody

Yeah. And that is such a great question because, you know, as parents, most of us love our children. I think it's safe to say that. And so we want to protect our children from being hurt, being sad, from harm. And we can't do right? We can't do that. Because if we put them in this bubble growing up, when they get out into the real world, what what in the world are going to do are they going to do? Because we haven't equipped them.

05:11.54

Jody

And I think that's what's so important about like this first strategy that we're talking about that is in my book. And it's about being our children's champion and not their savior. So I love this quote. i don't know if you've heard of this um doctor. His name is daniel amen And I saw this online and i was like, oh my gosh, this is so powerful. He says, if you do too much for your kids, you build your self-esteem by stealing theirs.

05:40.02

Jody

Let that sit there for a moment. So powerful, right?

05:43.32

Jonathan Guerrero

I have to process that. no

05:46.23

Jody

If you do too much for your kids, you build your self-esteem by stealing theirs.

05:53.62

Jonathan Guerrero

I can almost hear somebody out there reacting saying, wait a minute, it isn't that harsh parenting?

05:54.14

Jody

So powerful.

05:59.22

Jonathan Guerrero

It does kind of make sense though.

05:59.38

Jody

Yeah. Right.

06:01.22

Jonathan Guerrero

Like when you listen, like when you hear it does kind of make sense.

06:05.21

Jody

Yeah. And, and here's the thing is like, Jonathan, I'm assuming you're the same way, but I mean, Isaac, you will not know until you're a father, like how much we love our children. Like we love our children so much.

06:20.25

Jody

And it's easy for us to want to just step in and do things for them. You know, my daughter, for example, she was learning how to tie her shoes and it was time to get out the door for littles. You know, a lot's going on. It's a big effort to get kids out. And so i come across her and she is crying.

06:38.84

Jody

And I quickly assessed the situation and I realized that, oh she is upset because she's trying to tie her shoes and she can't do it. So I'm a loving mom. I love my kids. I wanna help them. I often do help them.

06:51.22

Jody

And my knee-jerk reaction in that situation would be what? I would come in and tie her shoes, right?

06:57.24

Jonathan Guerrero

yeah

06:58.07

Jody

it stops the crying. it stops the upset. I get to be the savior and help her, which I love helping my kids. And then we get out the door on time, which I love being on time, right? I value that. So anyway, so here I am like I have the situation of, okay, I can swoop in and rescue her or this can be a learning opportunity where I can encourage her and empower her to do this on her own.

07:25.72

Jody

And I chose the latter. Luckily, now I have a great story of how I did this right for my book because there are many stories where I didn't do it

07:33.01

Jonathan Guerrero

Thank you.

07:34.07

Jody

But I come alongside her. And first, I just empathize with her, right? First, I'm like, oh, man, I see you're really frustrated. looks like you're trying to tie your shoe. Is that what's frustrating? And she's like, yes. I was like, I get that. I was like, I remember trying to tie my own shoes and I didn't get it right all the time either. And I totally get that, right? So one that helps soothe her, right? Meet her where she's at.

07:56.02

Jody

And then secondly, so what we do moving forward is I was like, would you like me to show you how to tie your shoe again? And would you like to do it? She's like, yes. So I show her how to do it. Then I untie it. And then i let her walk through the process. I'm right there guiding her. I'm not like, see ya. I'm right there.

08:13.21

Jody

And she ties her shoe. Like so pumped, right? She's excited. I'm excited. Such a win. And now she has the confidence knowing that Hey, I know I can tie my shoes. I've did it once already. And she probably did it a couple times before that, when you know, when we were practicing and learning.

08:30.71

Jody

And so now she's has this confidence in her. And something that I think is so important is like challenging opportunities for our kids. They become powerful opportunities to instill confidence in in them. That's how they learn. And that's how they grow.

08:47.98

Jody

It's hard for us, but it's so valuable for them. And so that's what I mean, where it's like we get to champion them and not save them and rescue them from hard things.

08:59.99

Jonathan Guerrero

So let's back up a little bit. There's something I want to key in on if and make sure I heard correctly.

09:05.34

Jody

Yeah.

09:05.40

Jonathan Guerrero

Your daughter actually didn't want you to tie her shoe for her. She actually wanted to tie her own shoe. She just wanted you to to walk her through the steps as she did it herself.

09:19.06

Jody

Yeah, she's in this situation where she doesn't remember how to do it. And it's so easy for her to take the messaging of like, oh, I'm not smart. I can't do this. Right. And so I gave her the choice. And I mean, honestly, sometimes my children just want me to do it for them. And that's when I get to stand by them and be their cheerleader.

09:37.94

Jody

Like I've had my younger son before trying to do something. he's like, this is too hard. And I'm like, dude, I was like, you can do hard things. I've seen you try again and again at things. And I know you can do this. So sometimes they want me to show them. And sometimes they just want me to do it for them. And I'm like, you got this, dude. i will be here. I'll be your cheerleader. i will champion you. And you've got this.

10:03.35

Jonathan Guerrero

you know that actually kind of reminded me of something similar to the situation. it wasn't

10:07.45

Jody

Yeah.

10:08.31

Jonathan Guerrero

it wasn't exactly the situation. it was a bit more different from that. But um I remember one time, we were at our public pool. And i remember I went off the highest dive that we have there.

10:20.47

Jonathan Guerrero

and it was kind of And it was kind of similar to the situation.

10:20.65

Jody

Dang.

10:24.15

Jonathan Guerrero

And my only goal, and this was 14 feet deep since you were diving from a really high diving board.

10:24.86

Jody

Hmm.

10:31.10

Jody

Cheese.

10:31.93

Jonathan Guerrero

So it was 14 feet deep. And my only goal was just to get to the bottom of it. I remember my dad.

10:36.76

Jody

Or to make it out alive. ah

10:38.65

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, I remember a couple of times.

10:39.35

Jody

Wow.

10:40.84

Jonathan Guerrero

I was just barely in breath when I came up. But anyway, remember my dad was there on the side of the pool.

10:44.03

Jody

Wow.

10:47.46

Jonathan Guerrero

And he and I kept on. And every time I jumped up, um I went all the way down. And I tried to get to the bottom. when I came back up, he kept on saying, you're almost there. You almost hit the bottom almost every time.

10:59.58

Jonathan Guerrero

I mean, I didn't accomplish my goal that day and I still haven't, but it it was just kind of cool.

11:05.34

Jody

When you came up and your dad was saying those words to you, like, how did that make you feel?

11:13.08

Jonathan Guerrero

Confident. It made me feel confident because I know that I'm almost there. I know that I to jump maybe just a bit higher or maybe just kind make my body bit more aerodynamic.

11:19.61

Jody

Yeah.

11:23.19

Jody

Yeah. And how would you have felt If your dad instead was like, I can't believe you're not getting it. Why don't you just try harder? Like, how would that make you feel?

11:34.70

Jonathan Guerrero

Oh geez. um That'd be disencouraging, I guess I could say. Yeah.

11:41.82

Jody

Yeah, that's one way to put it, right? Like, totally just, I mean, when we have energy and like confidence in ourselves, we feel like we can keep doing it and keep trying it. But then when someone's just speaking like so negatively to us, like for me personally, when that happens, like it just feels like the life is sucked out of me and it just feels so defeating.

12:02.68

Jody

Yeah. And I know you're going to get it. I'm excited to hear when you do. Have you done it yet since then?

12:08.31

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah. Nope.

12:10.07

Jody

Okay, let me know when. hey

12:14.78

Jonathan Guerrero

What are the physical or emotional tell tells a dad should should look for in himself that signal he's about to overstep and steal the the struggle?

12:27.32

Jody

Oh, that's a really good question.

12:32.31

Jody

I think it's really important. Well, I think one is just to pay attention to yourself, right? Like pay attention to your body, pay attention to what's going on with you. And i think many men and women, I mean, humans, I think can do a better job of checking in with themselves.

12:50.39

Jody

And so what I would ask is what is your, like in that moment, like you see your child struggling or something, like in that moment, what is going on for you?

13:01.30

Jody

Because sometimes our the reason that we step in is because of a selfish motivation. Yeah, it may be because we want to feel good about ourselves for like you know helping our children.

13:13.78

Jody

But as fathers and as mothers, like but I'll speak to the fathers, like as fathers, there may be something from our childhood that is that is creating us to like overreact in situations. So like let me create a hypothetical example. Okay, say your son's on the baseball team.

13:30.97

Jody

and he is like swinging and he is like striking out or say he's at practice, right? And he keeps striking out. And maybe that was a part of your story where you felt in baseball or in a certain sport that you were not good enough. And so here you are you're observing your son and you feel like your own childhood is being reenacted through your son. And you're like, crap,

13:55.42

Jody

he's going to fail. He's not going to do it right. He's going to feel like a failure the rest of your life, which is how you may have felt, but it doesn't mean that's true for your son. So you want to swoop in, step in tell him all the ways how to do it, swing for him, show him all the things, which that stuff is helpful, right? It's so helpful to have someone to show you and guide you, but the motive is different, right? If the motive is you showing up as a dad out of your own insecurities and putting those on your son,

14:23.83

Jody

the energy around that is going to be so different as opposed to just working through the healing of your own childhood. So you can just be present with your son and encourage him and show him from a healthier place. So I'm not sure if that makes sense, but I think it's just so important for the dad to check in with himself on the feelings that he has coming up so he can then approach his son in a healthy way, That equips him how to do it moving forward as opposed to trying to rescue him and just swoop him out of the discomfort and avoiding what could potentially be, you know, hurtful, but it's what the dad is making up about that based on his own experience. Does that make sense?

15:06.01

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, somewhat. Also, another part that kind of makes sense there was sometimes you just sometimes it just feels good to just take down your own problem to just take care of your own problems without someone having to come in and just kind of like take care of it for you. like You kind of just like that like that kind of that sense of victory in you.

15:27.63

Jonathan Guerrero

Like you just overcome something.

15:27.70

Jody

Yeah.

15:31.35

Jonathan Guerrero

ka come you' overcome something

15:32.60

Jody

Yeah. A hundred percent. And we robbed that of our children. I remember seeing some friends and they had a daughter, maybe a year and a half old.

15:45.14

Jody

And she had fallen into a basket and she was trying to get out. And she was like fussing like, help, help. And the dad just stood there and he encouraged her.

15:56.98

Jody

He was like, you can do it. Put your arm here, put your arm here. push yourself out. And she struggled a little bit and then she did it. And she got the biggest smile on her face ever.

16:11.08

Jody

and then she was like, again, and then she went back in the basket because she wanted that experience again, because it was so powerful for her. Like it was so good for her to do that and have that feeling of accomplishment, right?

16:21.59

Jonathan Guerrero

That is so cool.

16:24.15

Jody

Yeah. The coolest thing ever. and so we rob our children of that when we step in and do things for them. We can be there to cheer cheer them on, champion them. But if we take that away from them, then what are they missing out on?

16:38.65

Jonathan Guerrero

So what I'm hearing out of this is there really is no shortcut to doing your inner work. You got to do your inner work or this just isn't going to work well.

16:45.33

Jody

Hmm.

16:49.46

Jody

Yeah, it's really important as parents. You know, we can't teach our parents our children, for example, to be kind if we're not being kind. We can't teach our children how to self-regulate if we don't know how to do that because our kids pick up on what we show them. We model for them of how they become. I mean... Jonathan, I'm sure you can resonate where like, I see my kids maybe like do something. and i'm like, dang it. They learned that from me. Like, no, some things I'm really proud of, but other things I'm not proud of because they pick up on what we are modeling for them. And so it's so important for us to yes, do our own work so we can be our best for our kids.

17:31.35

Jonathan Guerrero

You talk about giving kids space. Is there a practical wait time a dad should implement before offering a solution? How do we just sit in silence in the middle of their struggle?

17:42.65

Jody

Yeah, that's really good. I think it comes down to just, you know, reading the room and like reading your child. And so what I would recommend is offering help.

17:55.22

Jody

Be like, hey, if you need me, I'm here. And then just chill. It can be so hard to jump in with our two cents and be like, oh, no, no, no, to the left, to the left, little more, little more. And just whatever they're doing, right? But like,

18:11.32

Jody

Let them know you're there and be there for them and just be quiet. Don't like give up and then walk away in another room, right? Just show them that you are going to be there and going to be present and you are willing to help and offer solutions when they need it. And these little moments like this, I mean, they start when our kids are super young, right? And if we can show that we are there to support them and encourage them when they're there and ready to ask for help, we can do that in these little moments that will carry on through adulthood and through you know through the teenage years. And as they get older that, hey, if you need anything, i am here.

18:49.33

Jody

To champion you and help you out when you're ready for it. Because, you know, like when you get advice when you don't want it, like what do you do with it? You don't do anything with it, right?

18:59.67

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, exactly. i know that you had some examples from your own experience with your daughter, but instead of saying, let me do that for you, what are three phrases a dad could use to encourage his child while still letting them hold the reins?

19:15.80

Jody

I would say like my number one phrase that I would use in this example is you can do hard things. And that just shows your child, like I can do this because yeah, like that's all they need to know.

19:29.75

Jonathan Guerrero

I like that one.

19:32.65

Jody

Like that's all we need to say is like, you can do hard things or I believe in you. Or you can also bring up a situation where they did try and it was really hard, but they kept at it and they did it again. And so you can also say something like, Hey, I have seen that when you try hard, not try hard enough, but when you work at it and keep going at it, that you'll eventually get it.

19:56.76

Jody

You've got this. And that can just be the fuel that they need.

20:02.61

Jonathan Guerrero

When a child is truly stuck and spiraling, how does a dad provide the smallest amount of help possible to get them moving again without taking over the entire task?

20:14.14

Jody

Great job. I mean, great question. So this is what I would say to that. So what I hear in that is how can I help them so they can be like at a better place to finish the job? And so what I would offer is the best way to help them in that scenario is again, not to rescue them with the task, but actually to help their emotions.

20:35.26

Jody

So when a child is super frustrated, they're dis like they're completely dysregulated, right?

20:36.21

Jonathan Guerrero

Mm-hmm.

20:41.21

Jody

like So my daughter, for example, she was crying and so upset. And so like the knee-jerk reaction to help her not cry and be upset is just to do something for her.

20:52.06

Jody

But have you ever tried to do something for a child? child like They're really upset about something, and you swoop in, and you do it really fast, and they're still upset. You're like, dude, why are you still upset?

21:02.19

Jody

I just fixed this problem for you, right? i just... So what's going on is they are mentally completely dysregulated. So they, it's when their brain shuts down and like logic can't enter. So they can't think of like, Oh, my problem was tying my shoe. Now my shoe is solved. So now I can complete getting ready to go out the door with my mom. Like that's like their brain can't even comprehend that. Right. And to remind parents like children's brains, they're don't even fully develop till they're around 21. So, right. So you really are dealing with a little child and their little brain, right? So this is what I would recommend is one, like I did with my daughter, with her shoe, meet them where they're at.

21:45.05

Jody

So your kid is really frustrated about something. Just be like, Oh man, I see that you are really frustrated. You want to tell me more about that? Sometimes they're so frustrated that they can't even tell you about it. And just like empathize with them. Like, dude I get that there, there was something frustrating me today. And I totally get how you're feeling or, and you know, the example with my daughter with her shoe, like I could exactly relate with that situation. Like I remember learning how to tie my shoes and it was so frustrating.

22:13.59

Jody

And sometimes just sitting sitting with them in that moment can be so helpful. You know, i have one kid who's a physical touch person. So I'm like, want to come in my lap for a minute? And we can just hug. you know, sometimes that helps them. The goal in my interaction at that moment is to calm them down.

22:31.13

Jody

And it works differently based on my child. Like one time when they were little, I started playing like i spy with them. It completely switched their brain off of the, you know, the trauma that they're going through in that moment and got them to think about something else and help them regulate the brain.

22:47.16

Jody

Sometimes I'll read a book. I'll just like grab a book and start reading it to them. Or other times, like my so my youngest son was upset one night about something. I don't even remember what it was. And then I just interjected. was like, have I ever told you the time when you were born as a little baby and you had like, your hair was like really wild and crazy.

23:06.43

Jody

And he was like, tell me more or no, or I don't remember his exact response. And then I just started telling him stories and then he totally like calmed down. And then once you've got a calm kid, then you can revisit the problem of what's going on with them.

23:21.53

Jody

So that is what I would recommend to do in those moments is do what you can to just help your child calm down. And then at that point, then you guys can, you know, tackle the the challenge together. so that is what i would recommend. Then you can ask like, hey, I see you're having trouble with XYZ. Do you want my help with it?

23:40.70

Jody

Or like, you know, work with them on that.

23:41.19

Jonathan Guerrero

So,

23:44.34

Jonathan Guerrero

okay, you're making this very, very doable because what a lot of dads are reacting to isn't so much the child having difficulty with the task.

23:54.90

Jonathan Guerrero

It's the child's emotional reaction to having difficulty with the task. We're reacting to the emotions. And then most dads from there split into two different categories.

24:06.74

Jonathan Guerrero

we're either irritated at the child's reaction and annoyed by it, or we are really pulled in by it.

24:11.29

Jody

Yeah.

24:15.48

Jonathan Guerrero

And, and so I love how, what you're clarifying is the best thing to do is sit with the child's emotions.

24:15.70

Jody

yeah

24:24.42

Jonathan Guerrero

You want to help them overcome the task, sit with their emotions, sit with them with the emotions and help them work through that. And that to me just seems du very durable. And you've,

24:36.95

Jonathan Guerrero

provided language for that and everything.

24:39.86

Jody

Yeah. And I can see as dads and I'm generalizing here, so hang out with me, but I'm seeing as dads that many dads may have not gotten that from their own father.

24:52.73

Jody

Cause I think that there has been a trend or a way of being that it's like man up, suck it up. Don't cry. Don't have feelings. Don't have emotions. Just shut it all down and do the job and be a man.

25:06.10

Jody

And I think that message is so destructive because God created us all with feelings and emotions. And those are signs that something's going on. And so I can see how a father could see a son as being weak because he's getting angry or frustrated at something that should be so simple.

25:25.50

Jody

But that's the messages that he received from his own dad is like, you shouldn't be frustrated. Just get it done. Don't be upset and do it. So 100%, like it really requires...

25:36.86

Jody

you know, the awareness and just sitting with your son and the challenges that they have.

25:37.39

Jonathan Guerrero

Okay.

25:42.99

Jody

And then when you can create that space, safe space for your son, then that is a kind of father son relationship that other parents want because the dad has created a safe place for his son to go and not know all the answers and be frustrated and want his dad's help.

26:01.82

Jody

And then that'll carry on through the rest of his life.

26:06.07

Jonathan Guerrero

Another perspective in this is generational. So for example, I'm Gen X.

26:09.82

Jody

Wow.

26:10.55

Jonathan Guerrero

We are stereotyped as the latchkey kids, the latchkey kid generation. And I literally was a latchkey kid. I went home from school. I let myself in the house.

26:21.14

Jonathan Guerrero

And if I was hungry, i had to cook my own food and be responsible for doing my own homework because my mom was off working. To add insult to injury, i grew up without a father in the home.

26:33.27

Jody

o Right.

26:33.69

Jonathan Guerrero

So if I didn't suck it up and do something and get something done, it didn't get done. So there was no room or place for the emotional component of it.

26:44.20

Jonathan Guerrero

It just wasn't relevant. It just, it wasn't going to get the job done.

26:46.94

Jody

Yeah.

26:49.51

Jonathan Guerrero

So you just sucked it up and did it. So Gen Xers is that grew up in that type of an environment have a very low tolerance for, for, as we would say, whiners or complainers or people.

27:02.62

Jody

who

27:03.84

Jonathan Guerrero

like So sometimes Gen Xers can fall to the annoyance side of the spectrum when the child struggles with that and empathy becomes a challenge.

27:05.02

Jody

Yeah.

27:08.22

Jody

Yeah.

27:13.82

Jody

That makes sense. Yeah.

27:22.81

Jonathan Guerrero

ah dad When a dad successfully steps back and lets his child win their own battles, What does that do to the father-child bond in the long run?

27:35.10

Jody

That strengthens the connection because what that is telling their, his child, like what a father is telling his child in that moment is that he believes in them.

27:45.66

Jody

And Isaac, when your dad says to you, son, i believe in you. Like, do you feel awesome or do you feel like poop?

27:56.92

Jonathan Guerrero

Awesome, for sure.

27:58.14

Jody

Yeah. And so when we get, when fathers get to step back and show their sons that they believe in them, like that is so empowering. And that, ah and then that confidence that a son has when his father speaks over him like that, you know, like I've said before, it just carries with him and empowers him through night through life, knowing that his dad loves him and supports him and believes that he can do it. Like you just can't go wrong.

28:26.87

Jonathan Guerrero

Okay, Jody, here's the part we've been waiting for. You offer a free confidence boosters and busters guide for dads in the audience. How can dads get this free guide and find your website to learn more and get more resources?

28:40.98

Jody

So the best place to find me is online at on Instagram. It's just at Jody Hill parenting. That's my handle. And then yes, for the parents who are listening for the dads, like I've got this for you. If you go to podcast.itsjodyhill.com.

28:57.62

Jody

I have my first superpower strategy that is in my book. It's on audio. It's an audio or PDF format. And then I also give my top confidence boosters and busters. So it's the top confidence things that you can do for your sons, for your daughters to really,

29:15.10

Jody

Increase their confidence. And then also things that as a parent, you may inadvertently be hindering their confidence, just like we talked about earlier, right? Rescuing them out of oftentimes good intentions, but it's actually hindering their confidence. So I have the top boosters and the busters that parents often do.

29:34.39

Jonathan Guerrero

And just to make things easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com. And if you go to this episode, you're looking for the episode called Why Helping Sabotages Your Child's Confidence.

29:48.31

Jonathan Guerrero

Why Helping Sabotages Your Child's Confidence. So if you go to this episode, look right below the episode description. I will have all of the links and resources that Jody mentioned posted right there for your convenience.

30:03.26

Jonathan Guerrero

As we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

30:08.47

Jody

My challenge to dads would be to watch your words, use them wisely because they will dictate your child's future. And what I want to say, like the other thing that I want to say to dads is like fathers, you have been given such an important role in your family's life.

30:30.71

Jody

And that is what I love, you know, about what Jonathan and Isaac, what you guys are doing is because you are speaking to the fathers and This is why it's so important. So our relationship with our heavenly father is heavily influenced by our relationship with our with our earthly father.

30:50.07

Jody

And so I truly believe that this is why our fathers are under attack, whether that be through addictions or childhood trauma or whatever, because the enemy knows if he can get to the father, he can impact his children under them and it can sway them from a relationship with our heavenly father, which is the only way that we can survive through life, right? Like we need our relationship with Jesus.

31:15.99

Jody

And so that is why i believe that fathers are under attack more than even the women are because they can change that perspective. And so I just want to encourage like you, Jonathan and Isaac, like what you guys are doing is so powerful. And for the fathers who are listening now, I encourage you to get the help and get the healing and attach to any resources that help you be a better man, which will impact your fatherhood, which will impact your children and their relationship with the Lord. so I think that's the final thing I have to say on that. It's so important.

31:50.76

Jonathan Guerrero

We've had an amazing conversation with Jody Hill. And if there's one thing that we've learned, it's that our children's confidence isn't something we give them. It's something they earn through very hard struggles and that we actually are wanting to protect them from.

32:05.98

Jonathan Guerrero

As dads, we have to realize that our health has a price tag. Every time that we try every time we tie the shoe, solve the math problem, or jump in to defend them in a social spat.

32:19.80

Jonathan Guerrero

We might be buying a moment of peace, but we are selling a piece of their self-worth. Your child doesn't need a hero to solve their problems. They need a sentinel dad to watch them solve their own.

32:32.12

Jonathan Guerrero

Tonight, when you see that look of frustration in your child's face, try sitting on your hands. Give them the gift of the struggle. A huge, huge thank you to Jody Hill for challenging our rescue reflex. Until next time, stay durable, stay restrained, and remember that the strongest kids are built in the moments where you have the courage to let them try. We'll see you in the next episode.

33:03.85

Jody

Y'all, that was so good. You did such a great job facilitating that conversation.

33:14.74

Jody

Can you hear me?

33:18.39

Jody

Can you guys hear me?

33:19.68

Jonathan Guerrero

OK, sorry. Yeah, the outro was running during that time. I forgot to tell you.

33:21.78

Jody

Oh, no.

33:22.99

Jonathan Guerrero

That's OK. We can throw it in later.

33:25.78

Jody

Oh, no. ah

33:27.42

Jonathan Guerrero

I should have warned you about that. It's my fault.

33:28.89

Jody

ah ah That was great, guys.

33:31.44

Jonathan Guerrero

That's all right.

33:32.25

Jody

I love your father-son dynamic.

Rachel is known to many as the 'Fathers' Advocate Mom.' She’s a voice for the voiceless in the family court system, dedicated to dismantling the bias that says a father is 'secondary.' She understands that a child doesn't just need a provider; they need a patriarch.

To learn more about Rachel's work or connect with her, visit: https://www.instagram.com/fathers_advocate_mom/

Find Deadbeat Dad by Design Podcast

Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deadbeat-dad-by-design-supporting-fathers-through-the/id1870406009

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1pZLIXz5y7b0y7pzYIPMea?si=0BKROPpTS0qqaw0wEOQnsw

To become a guest on The Fatherhood Challenge, visit: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge



Our guest is Casey Stubbs, founder of Trading Strategy Guides, the author of The Complete Trading System and the voice behind the How to Trade It podcast.

Purchase The Complete Trading System here: https://amzn.to/4sjXS7m

Find Trading Strategy Guides here: https://tradingstrategyguides.com/

Find the How to Trade It podcast here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0ftQa8lrsCjM3-GY9sracPBKJKCI6Phl&si=-awsSQ32Mb5a4WuG

To become a guest on The Fatherhood Challenge, visit: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

00:05.34

Jonathan Guerrero

For most men, the word trading brings up images of high-speed tickers, complex charts, and the relentless pressure of the bottom line. We spend our lives trying to master the markets, grow our portfolios, and provide a future for our families. But there's a massive difference between being a successful earner and being a godly steward.

00:25.94

Jonathan Guerrero

One focuses on the number in the bank account, and the other focuses on the legacy left in the living room. Today, we're joined by a man who operates at a high level of capacity that most of us can only imagine. He's a titan in the financial world, an education, and and a successful entrepreneur.

00:45.19

Jonathan Guerrero

He's a man of deep, unshakable faith, but perhaps his most impressive credential is the title he holds at home, Father of Nine.

00:55.82

Jonathan Guerrero

We're diving into the trade of a lifetime. We're exploring how to apply market level discipline to your spiritual life, how to build wealth without losing your soul, and what it actually looks like to lead a large family with intentionality and grace.

01:11.54

Jonathan Guerrero

And we're going to explore all of this in just a moment, so don't go anywhere.

01:56.35

Jonathan Guerrero

Greetings, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. My son and co-host Isaac is taking the day off, so he might be in a future episode. This episode is called The Trade of a Lifetime.

02:08.37

Jonathan Guerrero

Our guest is Casey Stubbs, the founder of Trading Strategy Guides and the author of The Complete Trading System and the voice behind How to Trade It podcast. Casey, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.

02:21.59

Casey

Hi, Jonathan, thanks for inviting me.

02:25.56

Jonathan Guerrero

So I'm going to put you on the spot here a little bit and ask you what your favorite dad joke is.

02:33.62

Casey

Wow, you know, oh man, I don't even know. That's a good good putting me on the spot, but I can't even think of one. Yeah, not ah so I've got a total blank spot. I don't tell dad jokes.

02:49.62

Jonathan Guerrero

That's okay. Perfectly fine.

02:52.86

Casey

and Yeah.

02:54.33

Jonathan Guerrero

okay

02:54.83

Casey

It's funny just thinking about it, but yeah.

02:56.46

Jonathan Guerrero

It is. All right. Well, Casey, no professional trader enters a position without a clear strategy. For dad listening who feels like he's just reacting to his kids all day, what does a parenting strategy look like?

03:12.38

Jonathan Guerrero

And how do you stick it how do you stick to it when the market at home goes volatile?

03:18.58

Casey

Whoa, good question. So it's interesting that you brought this up, Jonathan, because I was actually thinking about this this morning. One of the things that I like to do is slow down a little bit and think about anything and everything.

03:40.44

Casey

And so one of the things that I was thinking about when we have challenges and struggles The first, I wrote a really long list this morning, actually, but the first thing is it's just so easy to get caught up in the negative side of things.

03:55.29

Jonathan Guerrero

Oh, yes. so yes

03:55.67

Casey

um We can talk about, oh, well, my kids did this, my wife did this, this happened at work, and we just go down this spiral of all of these negative and bad things that are happening.

04:12.34

Casey

And yet you don't think about the good things, you know. And so I would say that anytime something bad is happening to you in your life, you could probably also say that something good is happening. And you've got to be looking at that.

04:30.45

Casey

Just to kind of help keep you regulated and to keep you understanding that right now there's chaos in the house. The kids are going crazy. Maybe your wife and yourself are not getting along.

04:43.93

Casey

But hey, I'm going to just realize this is just a moment and I'm going slow down, step back and not get caught up in it. And try to think about all of the blessings and all of the good things and what an opportunity it is to even have these problems in the first place.

05:04.48

Jonathan Guerrero

Oh, wow. This conversation i already know is going to be a challenge because we're limited by the clock here and already there's so much to what you're saying. I really appreciate what you're saying. I literally experienced it.

05:19.35

Jonathan Guerrero

i was going through this last week. I was in some kind of a funk and to this day, I'm still not quite sure where it came from, but I was having very much of a Moby attitude.

05:34.39

Jonathan Guerrero

And, um, and prayer just was a challenge for me. And it was one of those things where I just did it anyway. Uh, just cause I knew that's what I needed the most, even though, uh, tiredness and I'm not even sure if I can call it depression, my down mood just was not wanting me to, to pray or do much of anything.

06:01.78

Jonathan Guerrero

And after I prayed, what I was impressed to do was to take an inventory of my life. And instead of whatever it was, not that I could put my finger on it anyway, but when I was around my family, I it was very intentional about paying attention to them.

06:25.18

Jonathan Guerrero

Just being present in that moment with them. And at that point, I had this realization, wow, I'm stinking filthy rich. I have a really cool wife who's a lot of fun.

06:42.01

Jonathan Guerrero

i have some really fun kids that many would love to have. I am super, super blessed.

06:55.03

Jonathan Guerrero

I could be living life without all of this. And I know i would be absolutely miserable. That's bliss to some people, I get it, but To me, it would be sheer misery.

07:11.19

Jonathan Guerrero

And then all I could think of was how I got all of this. And of course, that turned my attention back to God because there's no way in the world I should have all of this. But I do.

07:22.67

Jonathan Guerrero

It's a miracle. And it's all because of of God. And so all of a sudden, I was just feeling really, really loved by God because he knew that I would want all of this.

07:37.08

Jonathan Guerrero

And that's all it took. It took me out of my phone

07:43.42

Casey

Yeah, that's actually fantastic. And i if we can get ourselves to do that and do it every day, that really goes a long ways and it keeps us keeps us motivated. But um it's it you know I think being depressed and sad and all that just doesn't make any sense when we actually look at the big picture.

08:08.92

Casey

And yeah, we have our down moments, but the big picture really keeps me going. But I love how you said you were feeling loved by God. But the thing about that is we don't always feel that.

08:19.51

Casey

And so we want to make sure that we operate in God's love. So one of the things that I do is I remember...

08:31.16

Casey

You know, why was I created? Well, I was created because God wants to spend time with me. God loves me. And so And one of the things I try to do every day is to just take a few minutes and say, Lord, let me experience your love today.

08:50.07

Casey

you know, let me receive it. Lord, I want to learn to receive it more. I want to experience it more. Show me your love for me. Right. Because I am very thankful to the Lord. And I a lot of times I'm praising and thanking, but recently I've been really focused on not just giving the praise, but also receiving His love.

09:10.68

Casey

And I think that makes a big difference as far as our faith, because really, if we're not always going to feel it. And so sometimes it really is a faith thing.

09:20.95

Casey

But then when we get into the habit of receiving His love, that changes us from the inside out.

09:31.37

Jonathan Guerrero

Oh, man, you went there. i didn't think we were going to go. wow I should have just I should have just assumed we were going to go deep. This is kind of the way the nature of it.

09:42.96

Jonathan Guerrero

But there's there's something super profound you said. And that is that we are not. used to being loved by God.

09:51.37

Casey

you

09:54.36

Jonathan Guerrero

We don't always feel that. And that's just brutal honesty. I mean, I know there's some Christians that are scared to admit that because it's going to feel like some grave sin or heresy.

10:08.12

Jonathan Guerrero

um But the way you're portraying it is you're portraying it like a habit, ah a learned behavior, a learned habit, That the more we try, the more we do it, the better we get at it, the better we get at receiving God's love.

10:26.07

Jonathan Guerrero

i thought I thought that was well put.

10:29.53

Casey

Well, thanks. I mean, one of my one of my favorite verses is when Jesus said, Abide in me and you will bear much fruit.

10:39.86

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah.

10:39.99

Casey

John 15.

10:40.08

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah.

10:41.83

Casey

It's really true. Apart from me, you can do nothing. And so... We just got to do that. We got to operate in Christ because that's where the fruit comes from.

10:52.95

Casey

Not saying that we're not going to work and do things because obviously we need to do both, but we need to invite Jesus along and really spend time with him. That will give us the, you know, that's where the fruit really comes from. That's where the blessings begin to explode in your life.

11:13.35

Jonathan Guerrero

What's that saying? ah By beholding, you become changed.

11:19.51

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah. That quality time that you're spending with God. Even then, I think sometimes we overcomplicate that.

11:30.74

Jonathan Guerrero

And we almost ritualize it. When, you know, I mean, for example, like if we were gonna hang out, we would just hang out. Like there wouldn't be a ritual to it.

11:45.08

Jonathan Guerrero

It would just be, let's go meet here.

11:45.69

Casey

Right. Right.

11:47.44

Jonathan Guerrero

Or, hey, you wanna go, um'm I'm going fishing later today. You wanna go fishing? I mean, it would be as complicated as that. And if you wanted to fish, you'd show up, we would go fish and we would have a blast.

12:02.81

Jonathan Guerrero

So I can't imagine why your relationship and your quality time with God would be any different? Why does that need to be any different or any more complicated than that? Doesn't he want to be included in every single part of your life, of every detail of your life, just like any friend would?

12:24.86

Jonathan Guerrero

And if you had a really close friend anyway, you wouldn't be keeping the darkest parts of your life from them. you would especially share that with them. So why do we feel like we have to be like squeaky clean to be able to share something with God? That's not what a true friendship is. So sometimes I think we can let shame or guilt or all kinds of other things get in the way.

12:51.00

Jonathan Guerrero

And we don't want to include God in those moments, like those moments where we blow up at our family and we lose our cool. Those are the times we lease ourselves.

13:03.13

Jonathan Guerrero

want to share with God and and have that a alone time with him and and just vent to him about what happened. Those are the times, though, when i I would say I get regulated the best are the times when I have and sometimes it just takes guts to do that because I don't want to go to God.

13:26.78

Jonathan Guerrero

I I know what I did was wrong. I shouldn't have blown up at my family. God is the last person that I want to go to with this.

13:37.27

Jonathan Guerrero

But sometimes it's me just making myself do it anyway. And shoving out, because I know I'm being lied to, that God doesn't want to hear it or God's angry with you or whatever. I know that's a lie.

13:50.90

Jonathan Guerrero

And so when I ignore that lie and I make myself get away and go be alone somewhere and talk to God and just vent,

14:02.33

Jonathan Guerrero

and just say, this is what I'm really, really upset about. And then I get really quiet. And just like when you're venting to, like if I was venting to you, i would spew out whatever it is I'm angry at. And then when I'm done and I've got it all out, I'd be quiet for a second. I'd be listening for your response because I know you'd have something to say about it. And I know you would be honest with me about it.

14:26.65

Jonathan Guerrero

So why is that any different with God? Like when you listen, and I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me where I've listened and I've heard the voice of God speaking back to me.

14:40.73

Jonathan Guerrero

And every single time I think I know what God's going to say to me, I'm wrong.

14:51.80

Casey

Yeah. Yeah. That's actually really interesting because, uh, yeah, you think, you know, but, uh, you don't, so you got to listen, but I think that's, um, a good point.

14:58.46

Jonathan Guerrero

yeah

15:01.26

Casey

You know, you said you don't have to ritualize it and I agree with that. Um, but I'll tell you, i have different kinds of friends and different relationships with different people. And, um, I think that's why God really enjoys being with us because we're all different, but I will say this,

15:20.28

Casey

When you're hanging out with some people, you can tell the difference versus when you're hanging out with others. And what I mean by that is some people are very intentional. They'll be like, hey, let's go fishing, and we'll go fishing. And then they're going to be asking you questions.

15:35.73

Casey

They're going to be listening. They're going to maybe even ask you some difficult questions. And yeah, there's no ritual to it, but you know that, oh, they're trying to they're trying to make this time count for something. rather than just be like okay we're just gonna hang chill be surface level um and so that's the that's the difference and you were and you were you were talking about that but you know we don't want to just stay surface level we want to ask the real questions uh listen to the real answers and kind of wrestle with those things that's where the real change takes place is when you uh when you

16:17.24

Casey

really engage the Lord and engage some of these things that you're really struggling with and things that you're not doing well with.

16:26.30

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, I think that's the mark of the true depth of a relationship is when you're on a level with that person where you can point out their faults and you feel safe with that other person that you feel safe enough to hear your faults from that person and not get defensive about it.

16:47.77

Jonathan Guerrero

I think that is a ah whole nother level. And I think, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I think sometimes... Us guys struggle with that more than anything, maybe more than female relationships do. i don't know. But that's the overall perception, I think, is that we struggle with that the most.

17:11.29

Casey

Yeah, yeah, I agree. And it's it's so important to really just do the work that you need to do, right? And that's I think that's the difference. And how's that work going to happen? It's going happen, as I mentioned, abiding in the Lord. But we got to do the work. And you can't run, right? If you're going to run, it it doesn't doesn't work.

17:36.12

Casey

You got to go deep. You got to go to the the the hard places and, um, most people, and they just aren't willing to do that. And we aren't, you know, as humans, we just don't want to do it, but we have to, we have to go there. And and I think that's why I talked um initially about receiving God's love.

17:55.48

Casey

Because that is really where you I get the grace to do that. Because when I know that and i have that trust, then it's like, okay, I can do this because, yeah, this is ugly, this is painful, this is hard, but I can do this because God's love is real and He really cares about me and He's he's molding me into something that I want to become.

18:23.58

Jonathan Guerrero

I think we struggle sometimes with the difference between condemnation and honesty, that brutal honesty that only happens at a high level, close relationship.

18:37.75

Jonathan Guerrero

And we just struggle with that difference. Scripture very clear. There is no condemnation for those that are in Christ. And so we equate that honesty

18:49.17

Casey

you

18:49.24

Jonathan Guerrero

with combat with condemnation and we think that they're one in the same and they're not and that honesty is love and again it's unexpected sometimes I think I know how the conversation is going to go how God's going to respond to me there's this one time that my wife and I got into an argument and and I was just frustrated because I felt like I wasn't heard, i wasn't understood, and I had absolutely no way to communicate what was on my heart.

19:30.74

Jonathan Guerrero

And I felt trapped and I felt like I was going to explode and it was about to, it was going to get ugly. But I, I knew enough, I had enough presence to, to,

19:44.25

Jonathan Guerrero

to not get into that, to not let it go to that level and to step back. And so I did. And i just quickly prayed. I just prayed.

19:57.46

Jonathan Guerrero

And the funny thing was when I just opened up to God in the middle, you know, the car radio was on and I don't remember what else was playing or going on at that moment. I just closed my eyes and I prayed and Out of nowhere, the song changed on the radio to help is on the way.

20:23.29

Casey

wow

20:23.32

Jonathan Guerrero

that Yeah, it just changed to help is on the way. And I could feel the presence of God. and my wife left to go do something. And then when she came back into the into the van, it was a totally different attitude.

20:39.13

Jonathan Guerrero

She was a different person. I have no idea what happened.

20:43.86

Casey

Yeah, yeah, no, that's good. And you know what, too, when since we're on this topic, um I have been really trying and just seeking the Lord. and And as I'm learning to love the Lord, it's about...

21:04.73

Casey

receiving that, I'm also trying to give that same level of love to my wife. And so I'm trying to so to to think of things like, okay, the purpose, that the reason the Lord created me was so that he could put his love And so I could receive his love so he could love me. And so I'm thinking, okay, the reason I got married was to love my wife.

21:29.94

Casey

Okay, and so I'm trying to do that exact love with her that I'm receiving from the Lord. And it's been a she's responded pretty well to it. And so I obviously need to keep moving in that direction. But one of the things, it's kind of funny because she's like, what's wrong with you?

21:49.36

Casey

She's like, are you dying? Are you going to leave me you know like thinking that I'm trying to be nice or or that I'm doing these things before something's going to happen?

22:00.13

Casey

And again, that's all part of like the same thing as what happens to us in really learning to receive God's love. Sometimes we don't even believe it.

22:07.26

Jonathan Guerrero

Yes.

22:10.52

Jonathan Guerrero

Yes. They are very, very much linked. I think that's probably why Jesus used the parallel of a marriage to describe our relationship with him.

22:25.30

Jonathan Guerrero

Because that's really what marriage was. Part of the design of marriage was to help us better understand that relationship, the depth of it. And yeah, you're right. It's a a very truthful reminder of why marriages exist and why we were given the gift of our wives.

22:45.25

Jonathan Guerrero

It's so, so true. um And I can't tell you how, you know, in that one example, yeah, that's one example where God,

22:51.02

Casey

you

22:55.99

Jonathan Guerrero

worked in my favor if you want to look at it that way but there's been so many times it's been in the other way where I've vented to God I've just laid the whole argument or situation on the table and I've just stepped away and say can't find resolution to this I I give up I don't know what to do I need your help and I'll listen and i will get all kinds of insights into my wife

23:27.99

Jonathan Guerrero

I mean, detailed stuff about her that i I need to know that's important to understand about how, why she feels a certain way about something.

23:29.11

Casey

you

23:39.26

Jonathan Guerrero

And then I will get this gentle prompt from the Holy Spirit to respond in a very specific way. And i every time I obey, it does it. doesn't It does the trick.

23:53.94

Jonathan Guerrero

She feels heard. She feels understood. She feels loved by me. It doesn't always resolve things instantly, but it definitely moves the ball a lot further forward towards a resolution just when she feels listened to and understood and valued and loved outside of whatever the disagreement was.

24:20.34

Jonathan Guerrero

As if there's nothing about this disagreement that is going to change that i the fact that I love her. Those are two completely different things.

24:30.59

Casey

you

24:33.94

Jonathan Guerrero

and we have trouble with that. If we are sinning and struggling with something, we have trouble understanding that God would love us anyway, apart from whatever it is that we're struggling with, apart from whatever sin that we're stuck in, and that we can't possibly sin enough To break that love of God, we struggle. It's and that's called unconditional love. We struggle with that with understanding that and marriage is a great place to try to understand that better.

25:16.79

Casey

Yeah, no, that that's that's it. And yeah, I just, just from listening to you, I think, you know, one of the things that you really should be fortunate and thankful for is you have a very strong relationship with the Lord. And that's a good thing. You know, a lot of Christian men don't have the confidence that they can hear from God.

25:38.14

Casey

So, you know, It's pretty unique, actually. Even if they're Christians, they're like, okay, I i love the Lord, but they don't are confident that they can hear from God. So the fact that you have that is really awesome, and that's a blessing and something you really should be celebrating often.

25:59.83

Jonathan Guerrero

Well, why don't we go there if you're okay with that? Why don't we talk about how does guy that is not used to hearing from God, how does he hear from God and how can he be confident that he's hearing from God?

26:14.62

Jonathan Guerrero

What is your experience with that?

26:16.31

Casey

You know what? um That's a tough question. It's a really tough question. Not because it's hard for me, because it's hard for me to know what other people are thinking. you know Because I have talked to, you know I get excited about it because it's not emotional, but at the same time, I feel I'm i'm very similar to you as I feel like I hear from the Lord.

26:42.68

Casey

And so...

26:46.90

Casey

I have in sharing that with men, sometimes I get the response like, well, good for you type response, you know, that's good for you, but it doesn't work for them type thing. And so it's hard for me to relate to that.

27:00.06

Casey

And so for me, the biggest thing is i I don't really know exactly how it happens, but it's just like when I, it's like I feel something, it's like, okay, I feel like this is what I heard. You know, it's not like it's a guaranteed type, like audible voice or anything like that, but it's just this impression that I get.

27:23.58

Casey

And i feel pretty confident in it. And it has caused me to take actions in my life many times. Like, okay, I think I'm supposed to do this.

27:37.18

Casey

I felt like this is from the Lord, so this is what I'm going to do type stuff. And so it's changed the direction of my life because of promptings that I've heard and then followed those.

27:47.58

Casey

And so how do I do it? Well, I stay in the Word. i I try to stay in worship and prayer, and those are the three things that that I do.

28:01.78

Casey

In the Word, i can receive things. In worship, I can receive in prayer, especially when I'm, like you said, when you're asking questions, I can receive. And even things like, you know, at church is a great time because you're in a worship setting. A lot of times I'll hear things at worship, at church, in men's groups.

28:22.65

Casey

at in quiet times and even sometimes really when I'm not seeking you know sometimes I'll be doing something totally different but I just get this impression you know and so I say that because it just is a difficult because some of the men that I talk to have have a hard time with it and I'm not really sure exactly why they do but it's maybe you have some insight on that

28:53.27

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, it's um I get the same reaction when it comes to conversations around hearing from God. And I think sometimes that gets overly complicated, too.

29:06.49

Jonathan Guerrero

There is some very simple rules to that. And that is yeah because one question i would get is, how do I know that I'm not hearing my own thoughts?

29:22.36

Jonathan Guerrero

So first of all, I love that you mentioned it wasn't an audible voice, and um I want to lead off with that. i I have only heard God's audible voice once in my life, and never since then that I can recall.

29:38.74

Jonathan Guerrero

And it probably hasn't been at all, because if i if I heard it a second time, it's just one of those experiences you'll never forget. So I've only heard his voice once, and that's it.

29:50.07

Jonathan Guerrero

most can go their whole life and never hear his audible voice. That's the norm. It rarely happens. If it happens to you, count yourself super blessed because most don't get that.

30:02.04

Jonathan Guerrero

So I'll lead off with that. Second, the most common way that you'll hear his voice is is through thought. And that goes into the next question, which is how do I know that it's not my own thoughts? Well, first of all,

30:18.52

Jonathan Guerrero

when you're hearing from the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is obsessed with Jesus. Given rule. So if the conversation starts somehow hinting towards Jesus or makes you think about Jesus or directly references Jesus or quotes Jesus, it's it's pretty solid bet that it's God's voice.

30:44.88

Jonathan Guerrero

you're You're hearing, from the Holy Spirit or you're hearing you're hearing from Jesus. The second thing is the Holy Spirit is also obsessed with Scripture.

30:57.72

Jonathan Guerrero

He loves to quote Scripture or point you to Scripture or tie something to Scripture in some way. So those are the two rules. If the voice that you think you're hearing is is not referencing Jesus, is directly in conflict with Jesus, or directly conflicts what is in Scripture, you are probably hearing some other voice, and it's probably not even your voice.

31:30.87

Jonathan Guerrero

But those are a general thumb. Those are some good rules to go by. And after all of that, if for whatever reason you're still unsure about what you're hearing, what you think you're hearing, you can always ask God in prayer for confirmation of some sort.

31:49.59

Casey

Thank you.

31:50.14

Jonathan Guerrero

Another good rule is find another group of guys or or spiritually minded people that are really good Bible believing Christians that you trust and go share what you think you heard with them.

32:07.03

Jonathan Guerrero

And ask them to join you in prayer to confirm that what you thought you heard is indeed or is not from the Holy Spirit, to clarify that. and God is always faithful to to reveal that and clear that up with you. like He doesn't want you to be deceived or unsure, especially if he's telling you something.

32:27.64

Jonathan Guerrero

So trust that that prayer will be honored in faith. So those are just some really good simple ways. Thought's not the only way. Many times I've gotten direct answers through scripture, just reading the Bible.

32:42.48

Jonathan Guerrero

That's another good way, especially when you pray for the Holy Spirit to lead you and guide you as you read and study scripture. You'd be surprised what comes out of there and how he communicates with you and how he'll illuminate your mind to read and understand things that you might have read 100 times before, but this one time because you thought to ask the Holy Spirit, it reads a little bit differently and you understand it better than you ever have.

33:12.63

Jonathan Guerrero

So those are some unique ways in in that type of an experience. You are hearing from God. You really are. And it's faith and it's it's a muscle, just like you have to exercise that faith to understand and believe that you're loved by God.

33:29.46

Jonathan Guerrero

until it becomes a habit to where it becomes easier to accept that love. Hearing from God is also like a muscle that you have to work and exercise. It isn't just going to become clear and easy to do the first time.

33:43.13

Jonathan Guerrero

You have to do it repeatedly, which comes back to what you said earlier, actually what you've said a few times in this conversation, Casey. yeah You have to spend that time with God.

33:55.31

Jonathan Guerrero

that's That's where it all comes from.

33:56.73

Casey

You know what?

33:56.67

Jonathan Guerrero

You have to make that time.

33:57.33

Casey

That's it right there because that's how you hear it. Right. And so if you're busy and you just don't aren't intentional with it. So it's, again, it's like hanging out. It doesn't have to be ritualistic, but it does have to be intentional.

34:10.07

Casey

And, uh, it's very cool. It's a very cool thing. And I'll share just one little story here. Um, I was recently with my wife and we were looking for a school, uh, for our daughter.

34:21.91

Casey

And, uh, When I was there, at first of all, I felt like the Lord led us to this place. um Both my wife and I were thinking the same thing, right? It was not just a a coincidence, but it was a divine appointment type thing.

34:36.98

Casey

And then when we got there, i like had this just, this, man, again, it I don't know if it it might have been a thought or impression or whatever it was, but it was like, wow, I just knew that I heard from the Lord while I was there.

34:50.07

Jonathan Guerrero

Mm-hmm.

34:51.19

Casey

And so it was great. But then on the I didn't want to tell my wife what had happened, mainly because if sometimes I don't tell people because i want just, you know, she needs to know that that what happened ah what we're supposed to be doing. And so on the drive home, I was like, yeah, I think I heard from the Lord, but I'm not going to tell you what it is.

35:21.11

Casey

And then she immediately, as soon as I said it, she immediately repeated exactly what I was thinking.

35:28.09

Jonathan Guerrero

Oh, wow.

35:28.95

Casey

And so it was like, okay, I guess we both heard. But see, that makes it really easy to make decisions because when you're both on the same page like that, it's like, wow, that was the easiest decision we ever had to make.

35:42.62

Jonathan Guerrero

That is really, really cool. And I have experienced that too. So that's another thing you can try. It's a great way to confirm.

35:53.43

Jonathan Guerrero

If you think you heard an answer, ask God to confirm it through the other person somehow, and then just sit back, be quiet about it and just listen, just wait, wait patiently. And that's, I absolutely love that story.

36:09.91

Jonathan Guerrero

Well, Casey, let's change gears a little bit. I know that you're definitely an entrepreneur in the financial sector. So I have a simple question. Why does a dad need to seek financial freedom?

36:23.42

Jonathan Guerrero

How much time are you personally trading for money? And how do dads know when they are way off balance?

36:33.08

Casey

Okay, well, you just hammered me with many questions. is so So I'll just share a little bit here and try to, so hopefully I can answer them all.

36:43.80

Casey

So the biggest thing is it's great that we learn as Christians to tithe, right, 10%. That's ah just, it's so good that we're learning to, we love God. We give him 10%. It's all his anyways. It all belongs to him. None of it's ours. We're just stewards. So that's probably the first thing is have an understanding that everything you have belongs to him.

37:06.68

Casey

And if you understand that, you're going to do just fine. Continue to stay in connection with the Lord as far as your finances, 10%. And then i personally believe that every single person should do 10 tithe and 10 investments um because it's really a great habit to get into and it just grows and it adds up and if you don't you're you've got to if you don't do that you're going to be in trouble right because you're going to have because we have ah our

37:47.13

Casey

In life, there's seasons, right? You've got, just like in in the world, there's seasons. In life, you have seasons. You've got seasons with plenty where you are blessed financially, and then you've got seasons where things are a little bit tighter.

38:02.81

Casey

And so you want to be prepared for the season. You know winter's coming, so get prepared for it. And one of the best ways to do that is to always take 10% and learn to to live on less. and so It's very difficult nowadays and people are tight because of inflation.

38:23.90

Casey

you know We've seen the prices of things go up so much and that's the other reason why we have to invest because if we put our money in savings, it's just going to disappear because of inflation.

38:37.27

Casey

What we had earlier, we keep that money, it just disappears automatically by inflation. So you have to invest in things that go up, things like Real estate, things like stocks.

38:50.46

Casey

and If you do that, then your money will increase rather than just keeping it in the bank account.

38:59.74

Jonathan Guerrero

Casey, you're a really, really busy guy, to put it mildly. You have enough kids to make most most of us want to take a nap just thinking about it. But on top of that, you've written a book and you help dads become financially free.

39:13.21

Jonathan Guerrero

Please tell us about both.

39:17.14

Casey

So my my my book really is my journey on learning how to invest and trade in the markets. I started very young. I was very very fortunate because my dad was involved in investing.

39:34.07

Casey

And so I learned. He was actually... And he was not really into computers, but he would do investing the old-fashioned way with looking at the the stock tickers in the newspaper because that's how they used to do it. And then you'd call in the broker to make a trade.

39:52.89

Casey

But then in the early ninety s the internet was ah was a creation and he didn't know how to use computers or internet so he needed get set up for the online trading so he needed me to help him set up his computer because I was grew up as a computer nerd um and so I set it all up for him and then in the process I got introduced to stocks and so I got out, left the house, joined the military and started investing.

40:24.38

Casey

And I was only making $200 a week. So we're talking in 1996, I'd made 200 a week. But in the army, I was in the army, you get your housing pay for, your food, so that all the cash that you get, so 200 a week is still not bad because all your bills are paid for.

40:45.46

Casey

So I was able to put most of that away. And that's what really got me started because after the the four years of my initial and enlistment period, I had over $30,000 in in my investment accounts. And I just realized the power of slowly putting in money each and every week.

41:06.07

Casey

Most people live paycheck to paycheck. And it's a secret to getting ahead. And it doesn't happen quickly. So if you're in a tight situation, Um, it's going to be tight for a while, but you can begin to build those good habits. We talked about habits, build those good habits, start tithing. If you're not start investing 10% and eventually it will catch up with you and you will start to see the financial fruit. You know, if you're in debt, you know, try to make yourself a plan to get out of debt, you know,

41:41.59

Casey

ah And it's not easy in today's world. it really isn't. But then again, it's never been easy. But the people that have good habits will do well.

41:54.62

Jonathan Guerrero

Where can dads find your book and take that next step towards financial freedom?

42:00.15

Casey

Well, ah my book is called The Complete Trading System. So you can just search that. It's on Amazon. And the way that they take their first step is just going through the basics, right?

42:16.06

Casey

Like, okay, I'm going to start tithing. Okay, I'm going to start investing 10% off the top, you know, at And what you invest in is important too because you don't want to make mistakes because you can be – there's some scams out there. So the secret, I'll just tell you right now, is just invest in the best, right? You could actually just invest in the S&P 500 and not have to do any research or and learn any skills because that's the top 500 stocks in America.

42:43.38

Casey

And there's really smart people to decide which are the top 500. They've got mathematical algorithms that they run so you can just trust that those guys know what they're doing. And if you just buy the S&P 500, it's easy. And it's been over the last 150 years, it's been a basically guaranteed success, which is a pretty nice long track record.

43:12.06

Jonathan Guerrero

So just to make things easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com. And if you look for the episode called The Trade of a Lifetime, The Trade of a Lifetime, go right below the episode description. i will have the link to Casey's book posted right there for your convenience. Casey, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

43:39.10

Casey

Well, I think the challenge is the same one that I have, and that is to build good habits, be intentional about it. you know don't Don't settle for drift, because if you don't set the good habits, you're going to drift, and you're going to drift the wrong way. So focus on building good habits and being intentional with your time, which means contemplation and in and thinking about, okay, what are the habits that I want to build? How am I going to build them? What action steps am I going to take?

44:13.91

Jonathan Guerrero

I have really, really enjoyed this conversation. it was great to connect with you again. Thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

44:23.10

Casey

Thank you.

44:48.70

Jonathan Guerrero

Okay, the outro just finished.

You’re in a new territory. It’s a landscape defined by therapies, advocacy, and a level of emotional complexity that most men aren't trained for. In that moment, many dads feel like they’ve been drafted into a war they didn't sign up for, without a manual or a squad.

Today’s guest is the man who has written that manual. David Hirsch is the founder of the 21st Century Dads Foundation and the creator of the Special Fathers Network—a 'tribe' of thousands of men supporting one another through the unique challenges of raising children with special needs. In this episode we have a conversation about his new book, Dads Raising Children with Special Needs and Disabilities.

Purchase Dads Raising Children with Special Needs and Disabilities here: https://amzn.to/4cUdHNf

Connect with other dads at Special Fathers Network here: https://21stcenturydads.org/

Here is a link to the episode mentioned in this episode with Catherine Whitcher of Milwaukee, WI, Mother of Two Daughters & Nationally Recognized Expert on IEPs: https://21stcenturydads.org/202-catherine-whitcher-of-milwaukee-wi-mother-of-two-daughters-nationally-recognized-expert-on-ieps/

If you’re just as passionate as The Fatherhood Challenge about turning the hearts of fathers to their children and have a unique story, testimony or resource to share with our podcast and radio audience, we would love to have you as a guest on our program. To apply visit: https://podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/thefatherhoodchallenge

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

00:05.34

Jonathan Guerrero

Every man has a vision of what fatherhood will look like. We imagine ball games, the graduations, and the moment we pass down our skills to the next generation. But for millions of fathers, that vision is redirected by a single moment in the doctor's office.

00:20.92

Jonathan Guerrero

A diagnosis is handed across the desk, and suddenly the map that you've been following for your life is gone. You're in new territory. It's a landscape defined by therapies, advocacy, and a level of emotional complexity that most men aren't trained for.

00:37.59

Jonathan Guerrero

In that moment, many dads feel like they've been drafted into a war that they didn't sign up for without even a manual or a squad. Today's guest is a man who has written that manual, and in just a few moments, we're going to learn a bit about what's inside, so don't go anywhere.

01:35.22

Jonathan Guerrero

Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me and my son and co-host Isaac. Hello everyone. Welcome to the Father Who Challenge. David Hirsch is the founder of 21st Century Dads Foundation and the creator of Special Fathers Network, a tribe of thousands of men supporting one another through the unique challenges of raising children with special needs. David's new book, Dads Raising Children with Special Needs and Disabilities, isn't just a collection of stories. It's a tactical roadmap.

02:04.02

Jonathan Guerrero

It's for the dad who feels isolated, the dad who's struggling to navigate the medical system, and the dad who needs to know that his strength isn't measured by his ability to fix his child, but by his resolve to stand with them.

02:19.74

Jonathan Guerrero

David, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.

02:23.16

David Hirsch

Jonathan and Isaac, thank you so much. I really look forward to our conversation.

02:28.06

Jonathan Guerrero

Okay, so here's one of my favorite parts. David, what's your favorite dad joke?

02:33.85

David Hirsch

Oh, geez. I knew you were going to ask the question, Jonathan. Um, and you, you know, that there's like a dad joke in each of the chapters, the 21 chapters of this book.

02:42.12

Jonathan Guerrero

oh yeah

02:43.17

David Hirsch

So I'll just share a couple. Um, I don't know that they're my favorites, but they're the ones that come to mind. Um, why did the golfer bring an extra pair of pants?

02:54.74

Jonathan Guerrero

uh isaac you can know this

02:54.90

David Hirsch

in case he got a hole in one.

03:00.44

David Hirsch

The other ah that comes to mind is, i ordered a chicken and an egg from Amazon. I'll let you know which one came first.

03:13.29

David Hirsch

We're gonna stop there.

03:13.66

Jonathan Guerrero

I almost thought I knew where that one was going.

03:14.73

David Hirsch

they're just They're all lame like that. They're all lame like that, okay.

03:20.28

Jonathan Guerrero

Thank you so much for sharing that. Well, David, in your book, you talk about a moment a father receives a diagnosis. For many men, this feels like a death like the death of a future that they imagine.

03:33.46

Jonathan Guerrero

How does a dad grieve that dream without withdrawing from the child who is right in front of them?

03:40.31

David Hirsch

Yeah, great question. I don't know that there's a one size fits all, but, you know, it's like a lot of things in life. um You know, you have your plans, you have your expectations and life rarely works out that way.

03:52.60

David Hirsch

One thought that comes to mind is that you can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backwards. And You know, each of us has ah dreams or aspirations that are dashed right at one point another. Right. It has nothing to do with a diagnosis or raising a child with special needs. But, you know, those are just the adjustments we make in life as it relates to parenting.

04:15.22

David Hirsch

And you know that I have five children, they're ages 29 to 36 now. um You know, we we had certain expectations, right, whether that was educational or athletically and you know, um what what you do is you just sort of take life as it comes.

04:31.93

David Hirsch

Right. And if you are on the receiving end of the diagnosis, right, like you made reference to, it might be from the time of birth. Right. Something is just not right. Or it could be something that gets diagnosed later, like autism usually isn't diagnosed for a year, a couple years at the earliest. um You know, it's a ah lifeshattering life life adjusting experience. Some have said it's like a hand grenade going off. There's shrapnel flying all around and you know, you're just devastated, right? And for some, they quickly rebalance. For others, it's not just days or weeks, it's months or years.

05:05.82

David Hirsch

And there's this sort of process of being in denial, like especially if it's a intellectual disability type diagnosis. Oh, he's just a slow learner. You know, let's not pre-worry our worries. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it, you know, type of thinking. By the way, those are all things that I said as a younger dad.

05:24.22

David Hirsch

Right. And I don't even have a child. that has a serious diagnosis. So um it's the way we process things. And I think one of the most important things I can say about the grieving process is that we don't all process things at the same rate.

05:43.00

David Hirsch

What I mean by that is that in a marriage or with a couple, whether they're married or not, the parents are not likely to process the situation simultaneously at the same level of the same rate. So I think that's really important to give your spouse or the other parent the grace to deal with things in their own way and not be judgmental or critical and just say, hey, you know, we need to figure out how to get on the same team and, you know, make the most of the situation.

06:15.45

David Hirsch

And the last thing I'll say is that the gold standard, if I can call it that, is that years, if not a decade or more down the road, that you could look back and actually not just think this, but articulate this and actually believe this, which is I would not have asked for a child with special needs, but knowing everything I know now, looking back, I wouldn't change anything.

06:40.12

David Hirsch

I hope that everybody can get to that point.

06:44.70

Jonathan Guerrero

I absolutely love your words on that, and I appreciate that you addressed the marriage. This takes me back to my own situation years ago. My oldest son was diagnosed at three with type 1 diabetes, and I remember sitting in the doctor's office waiting on some kind of a diagnosis, and we were told it was either going to be type 1 or it was going to be leukemia.

07:12.98

Jonathan Guerrero

And I remember the guilt of wishing that it was leukemia because I figured, well, with leukemia, he can get a bone marrow transplant and that might be a bit of a wait, but he should have plenty of time. And then this whole thing is over and then everything is fine.

07:30.62

Jonathan Guerrero

If it's type one, that's a life sentence. And I remember feeling feeling guilty for even thinking that and then addressing the marriage it really put a strain because we were grieving very, very different differently.

07:48.79

Jonathan Guerrero

I really didn't even know how to even grieve that situation. So there, there's so much with that. I know later on and in our conversation, we're going to talk about how the marriage is impacted a little bit further in detail, but that's what this takes me back to. So, um, I, I really appreciate what you had to say about that.

08:11.03

David Hirsch

Yeah, well, thanks for sharing.

08:11.06

Jonathan Guerrero

Um, Yeah. You've spent years defining what a 21st century dad looks like. How does that definition change when a child has a disability?

08:23.74

Jonathan Guerrero

Does the role of protector change into an advocate?

08:30.10

David Hirsch

That's a great question. i don't think we shed our role as a protector. I think that's just one of the basic requirements of any dad. um But I think what happens, just to react specifically to your question, that the level of advocacy has to get amped up, right?

08:49.85

David Hirsch

And I don't think dads generally think of themselves as advocates, right? Being able to be more intentional about advocating for their sons or daughters. you know Whether it's right or wrong, societally, no the child rearing experiences a majority of families are the mom's domain.

09:15.93

David Hirsch

Most things, healthcare and education, it's the mom's leading and the dad's following. There are some single dads or stay at home dads that are the leaders um and their families. So i'm not trying make a generalization, but by and large, the advocacy roles fall more heavily on mom's shoulders than dad's shoulders. So I think that um one of the things that we need to do as dads is to be that outspoken advocate, be the co-parent that our child deserves, that a mother of our children deserve, so that all the burden is and on their shoulders.

09:57.37

David Hirsch

And one simple example is like IEP meetings, right individual education plan meetings. It's really important for both parents to be present.

10:08.49

David Hirsch

It's a stretch, particularly if they're a traditional relationship, dad works, mom stay at home. um But prioritizing those, you know, once a semester, a couple times a semester meetings, you know, most of us can juggle our schedules because those meetings are scheduled not a day or two in advance, but weeks, if not months in advance.

10:29.72

David Hirsch

And it's just a way to demonstrate through our actions, not just our words that, you know, we're present and You've probably heard me talk about the importance of being present.

10:41.94

David Hirsch

And I'll just make reference to it briefly that being present financially is what like is the bar that most dads are being held to. If you're a good provider, you know, the other things aren't as important, but I would argue that regardless of your ability to provide financially,

11:01.72

David Hirsch

that being present physically, emotionally, as well as spiritually are just as important and in some cases even more important to be there for your kids.

11:11.29

Jonathan Guerrero

Oh, that's so interesting that you say that. Coming down the pipe a few episodes later, we're going to be ah releasing a panel interview. And the title of that interview is called The Provider Life.

11:27.16

Jonathan Guerrero

And we're tackling that very issue. it used to be, you know, 50 years ago and and more. Being a financial provider was the only definition of a provider.

11:41.05

Jonathan Guerrero

And you either met that criteria or you weren't a man, much less a provider for your home. And now that definition is changing.

11:52.15

Jonathan Guerrero

And not only that, but it's priority and position, it's changing. It's moved to the bottom. And now being emotionally stable, being an emotional provider,

12:03.22

Jonathan Guerrero

among other things. you know And then there's the physical, which is includes things like taking care of the house. So if something breaks, it's as a man, it's your responsibility to step up and make sure things in the home, appliances, things like that are in working order and functioning so that task in your home can operate smoothly.

12:24.22

Jonathan Guerrero

This is even privates prioritized above the financial. So if anything, the definition of of a provider has grown and the financial has moved further down.

12:40.31

David Hirsch

No question about it.

12:43.99

Jonathan Guerrero

Your book emphasizes the special father's network. Why is it that men specifically tend to isolate themselves when their child is diagnosed with a disability? And what is the cost of that isolation?

12:58.14

David Hirsch

ah Great question. um So for your listeners who don't know what the Special Fathers Network is, it's a dad to dad mentoring program for fathers raising children with special needs.

13:09.59

David Hirsch

The concept is we have these more seasoned dads, we call them the Special Fathers Network mentor fathers, who on average have 10 or more years of experience raising a child with a disability, autism, Down syndrome, cerebral palsy, rare disease,

13:24.18

David Hirsch

Blind, deaf, missing a limb or limbs, no disabilities off limits. And we have just north of 900 dads who've agreed to be mentor fathers to come alongside these younger dads who are close to the beginning of their journey raising a child with a disability.

13:40.22

David Hirsch

So um the isolation question that you asked. most of the dads in the network, the mentor fathers have said almost to a person, i wish there was something like this when I was a younger dad.

13:57.46

David Hirsch

i felt so isolated. And what they're saying is that I didn't have anybody in my friend group, guys I went to school with, guys I work with, guys in my neighborhood that I could turn to or that would understand or appreciate, not even anybody in their family, in most cases, that could really appreciate what's going on at home.

14:16.38

David Hirsch

And they're a little bit hesitant to engage in conversation for a variety of reasons. um So we're filling this gap, this unmet need, right? By making somebody, providing ah an opportunity to have a relationship with somebody who's already been there and done that.

14:42.78

David Hirsch

And i would be quick to add that our mentor fathers don't give legal or ah medical advice. That's what lawyers and doctors do. This is just like practical advice on how did you handle situations you know from different um stages right in your child's development.

15:02.58

David Hirsch

um And that the isolation, i think, is self-imposed, not intentionally self-imposed, but it become it's a result of the uncertainty that's involved. Remember, Jonathan, we're the gender that doesn't pull over and ask for directions when we're lost.

15:24.92

David Hirsch

And a little tongue in cheek, I refer to this as testosterone poisoning. One of the side effects is the inability to accept advice, right?

15:32.86

Jonathan Guerrero

Yes.

15:33.75

David Hirsch

And the joke is, you know, if you're in your car, right, your spouse or whoever's sitting next to you says, hey I think we should pull over and ask for directions. You're like, No, I've got this right. I can figure this out.

15:44.31

David Hirsch

Right.

15:44.28

Jonathan Guerrero

Exactly.

15:45.54

David Hirsch

i'm I'm one of those guys. I mean, before GPS, there's no way I'm pulling over and asking him for directions. And we're talking about something as basic as how do you get from point A to point B in your vehicle.

15:51.59

Jonathan Guerrero

Yep.

15:57.08

David Hirsch

Now you apply that same problem solving approach to something more consequential, like being a parent or being a parent to a child with a disability, and you're gonna come up short, right? You're not gonna fix your kid, right? There is no fixed autism or Down syndrome or cerebral palsy or rare disease, right? And as fixers, most dads are fixers. Like we have a toolbox and we go to our toolbox and you know we try to figure out how to fix things.

16:22.55

David Hirsch

Well, when you can't fix something, right? It's frustrating. And it might lead to behavior that you know isn't going to be entirely healthy. It could be um disengaging, right?

16:35.51

David Hirsch

It could be alcohol, it could be drugs, it could be pornography, right? you know You might think, oh, my family is going better off without me, right? Because I can't do anything.

16:47.19

David Hirsch

So maybe we should split like mom and dad aren't going to be healthy together. Maybe it'll be healthier without me. And in the most extreme cases, guy gets so frustrated, he commits suicide, right?

16:59.84

David Hirsch

Unfortunately, that's not a huge problem, but it is an alternative. That is the solution that some people, you know, think is the solution. So if there's anything we can do to help these younger dads deal with the uncertainty that goes along with raising a child with a disability, you know, that's a huge step forward.

17:22.20

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, so I'm one of those dads that'll jump in with all the rest and say, yeah, I wish the i wish I knew about the Special Fathers Network when I was a dad. Because I would have loved to participate. I would have loved to have been involved with that.

17:35.26

Jonathan Guerrero

And I would have benefited from that. And here's why. I've done a few episodes on paternal postpartum depression. Which, yeah, that's a thing. Not only is that a thing, there's statistics on it.

17:47.26

Jonathan Guerrero

One in ten dads get it. And I was one of those that had it. And I had no help. I had no support. And that was coming off the pregnancy.

17:59.86

Jonathan Guerrero

Then you factor in an early type 1 diabetes diagnosis. I would have really, i could have used that. So yeah, this is why I appreciate that we're talking about it now.

18:14.65

Jonathan Guerrero

that that That boat has long left the dock for me, but it's right on time for somebody else. You provide a roadmap for the unexpected.

18:26.61

Jonathan Guerrero

What is the one piece of advice in the book for a dad walking into his first IEP meeting? And how does he lead in that room without becoming combative?

18:37.50

David Hirsch

Wow.

18:40.89

David Hirsch

I don't know that there's an easy way to answer that question about the first IEP meeting, but just being prepared, right? You know, understanding what's the purpose of an IEP meeting and, you know, maybe not going in with guns loaded, thinking, hey, I'm the leader. I'm going to be the one that's directing all this, but having some humility and being respectful right of the process.

19:07.93

David Hirsch

This is what these people in the educational world do. right you know You might be one of dozens, if not hundreds of families at that school that are participating in IEP meetings. So just recognize at least at first that there's a process, there's a system. It's been that way for years, if not decades.

19:28.38

David Hirsch

And i think the main objective is to make sure that everybody's on the same page, right? That the goals of the child are crystal clear and that um you want to make sure that

19:46.18

David Hirsch

you're being heard and understood. So there's a number of different strategies that I picked up on a that both parents are there.

19:57.21

David Hirsch

And in some cases, it's suggested that you have your child there. Right. So they're not speaking of your child sort of generically or just as another number. But, you know, there's the human being sitting there.

20:09.27

David Hirsch

Right. The child doesn't have to participate. They don't even have to fully appreciate or understand what's going on. But you know, there's another dimension, right? You have Option A, mom goes in, which is typical, no dad present.

20:24.02

David Hirsch

Option B, mom and dad go in, right? Your two is better than one mentality. Option three is to have a third person. And that third person logically would be the child who the IEP is being created for, the beneficiary, if you will.

20:41.53

David Hirsch

And then in some extreme examples, once you've been to these IEP meetings and you feel like you're not being heard or understood your situation's not being addressed, you can bring an advocate in, right?

20:55.16

David Hirsch

Um, somebody who's more experienced, right. Maybe with the legal ability of everything, right. To be there. Right. Um, I wouldn't suggest you start with that only because that's like playing hard ball.

21:08.54

David Hirsch

Like I'm bringing in a professional, right. Somebody who's, you know, I'm paying to be there alongside us. That would be, maybe a strategy that you would consider steps down the road, right? When you know you you might not be getting to where you'd like to be, or if they keep coming back and saying, oh, we don't have the resources for that, or we can't do this. You're getting a lot of no's.

21:32.79

David Hirsch

And then the one last thing I'd like to say about IEPs in reaction to your question, is there's a woman that I interviewed for the SFN Dad to Dad podcast. um Her name is Whittacher, Catherine Whittacher, and she's up in Wisconsin.

21:51.48

David Hirsch

And she is the queen of IEPs, right? She's been on both sides as a parent and as an educator and as an administrator. And she knows more about IEPs than most people will ever know.

22:04.18

David Hirsch

And she has some great resources for parents as it relates to IEPs. Catherine Whitticher. So please be sure to include some information in your show notes about how to contact her.

22:21.24

Jonathan Guerrero

ah Yes, and absolutely. As an as a side, would you mind sitting that as well when you can?

22:27.65

David Hirsch

to. I'll make a note.

22:28.06

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, and I'll make sure that gets in there.

22:31.86

Jonathan Guerrero

Statistically, the stress on a marriage with special needs with a special needs child is immense. In your interviews for the book, what did you find was a common denominator among the couples who don't just survive, but actually thrived?

22:49.85

David Hirsch

Another good question. um

22:54.33

David Hirsch

I don't know what the statistics are, Jonathan, about the incidence of divorce as relates to typical marriage versus a marriage that includes a child with a disability.

23:05.88

David Hirsch

But logically, if There's the extra stress and strain financial responsibility that goes along with disability diagnosis.

23:17.53

David Hirsch

You can only imagine that the incidence divorce would be higher. I don't know what the statistics are. and I don't to say I don't care, but that's not what's driven me to be involved and it's not going to change the action or our activities.

23:34.23

David Hirsch

So the question as I understood it was, what is it that helps parents thrive despite the fact that they have a child with a disability?

23:45.91

David Hirsch

What's the difference between those that are more successful or less successful? And

23:54.58

David Hirsch

i think what it boils down to is being aligned, right, in your goal of keeping your child's best interest you know at the forefront and that it has a lot to do with communication, um being able to articulate your your feelings, your aspirations, your fears,

24:24.22

David Hirsch

and not being judged, right? So giving another one another the grace like we were talking about earlier. And the importance of respite comes to mind.

24:39.71

David Hirsch

Couples respite where you're able to get away for a short period of time on a daily, weekly, monthly basis as a couple. It could be going to the grocery store together. It might be going out for a cup of coffee. It could be going for a walk.

24:55.86

David Hirsch

um Or could be more consequential where you can go out to dinner. or go away for an evening or a weekend or a week, right? Because you've got the type of coverage that you'd be comfortable with either family-wise or otherwise.

25:11.80

David Hirsch

um The concept of respite goes beyond couples respite. It would be individual respite where each of the parents, mom or dad, gives the other, you know, the opportunity to pursue something that's important to them that might not be on the family's behalf directly. And it could be a hobby.

25:32.18

David Hirsch

It could be something that is a priority to like get together with guys in the neighborhood or guys they went to school with or something that's important to mom to get together with their girlfriends locally or you know girlfriends that might live a longer distance away where you're getting on a plane or driving someplace. And I think this concept of being able to maintain some level of, if you will, normalcy, right with your relationships so that it's not all about hunkering down and, you know,

26:08.79

David Hirsch

having to be there every minute of every day, 24 seven with your kids and being disciplined or intentional about finding the time as a couple, finding time individually.

26:21.08

David Hirsch

And I think that that respite allows us to recharge our batteries and bring our A game. And the last thing I'll say is the importance of self-care, not just for dads, but for moms as well.

26:35.54

David Hirsch

um staying healthy from a physical standpoint, an emotional standpoint, so that you know you're not getting burned out.

26:45.85

David Hirsch

And it's really easy to talk about those things, but in the heat of battle, trying to manage just the balance between work and family is a pretty big challenge for most, but finding the time to take care of yourself.

26:59.77

David Hirsch

And there was a guy that I interviewed super early on with the Special Fathers Network, Dad to Dad podcast. His name is Rob Gorski. And Rob is in, I think, Canton, Ohio, three boys, all three of them are on the spectrum and they have like a flurry of other diagnosis.

27:17.56

David Hirsch

The autism is not like the biggest challenge of things. um And Rob, had done a lot of journaling was his therapy.

27:28.82

David Hirsch

It morphed into something called the Autism Dad. It's pretty interesting platform that he's created for himself. And he was the first person I heard say, it's important to be self-ish before you can be selfless.

27:44.89

David Hirsch

the importance of taking care of yourself first so that you can bring your A game and be more consistent for being there for your kids, being there for your family.

27:59.77

Jonathan Guerrero

Dads often worry about typical typical siblings being overlooked. What does your book say about maintaining a level ah level playing field of attention and leadership for all your children?

28:13.96

David Hirsch

Isaac, that's a great question. I'm going to paraphrase it to make sure I understood. i think the question you're asking is about siblings and family balance. um And the point you're making, the question that you're asking sort of bags, the fact that if you have more than one child and let's say you have a typical child and one or more typical children,

28:44.38

David Hirsch

um you're a father to all of your children, not just the one that has a diagnosis. And unfortunately, at least early on when there is a diagnosis, there's a disproportionate amount of time and resources, in some cases, financial resources as well, that the parents are drawn to because of the child with a disability. And it's super important for parents to be reminded that their parents to all their children.

29:16.15

David Hirsch

And if there are three children, just as an example, it's unlikely in any situation that each child is gonna get a third, a third, a third of their parents' time and resources.

29:27.94

David Hirsch

It's just statistically improbable, but we wanna be equitable, I think as parents and make sure that, you know, we're blind we're not blind to the fact that, you know,

29:41.78

David Hirsch

the fact that there's a person in the family with a disability isn't only impacting the parents, it's impacting their siblings as well. And to maintain open lines of communication about how this is impacting the siblings, super important.

29:59.77

David Hirsch

And to be able to do things one-on-one with each of your children, right? to demonstrate that they're a priority, that they're just as important, a member of the family as anybody else.

30:13.18

David Hirsch

And trying to create these routines, weekly, monthly, quarterly, at least annually, that you're doing things, you know, one-on-one, with each of your kids.

30:25.37

David Hirsch

Now, I realize that depending on the severity of somebody's disability, that it might be impractical to do things as a family, like traveling overnight or for the weekend or for long distances.

30:40.38

David Hirsch

And that the practical solution in some cases is that the typical siblings and the parents go on a vacation without their handicapped or disabled child.

30:54.07

David Hirsch

Now that's not good or bad, but that's just the reality of trying to maintain, you know, some level of normalcy. So to address the question you asked Isaac, I don't think it's a one size fits all, but I think as long as parents are aware of this issue of siblings and family balance and are intentional about it,

31:14.39

David Hirsch

then it's unlikely that somebody is gonna realize a year or years or a decade down the road that you know there was an issue that wasn't being addressed. And the last thing I'll say is that there are something called SIBS networks, sibling organizations. There's a national SIBS network, and then there are local chapters.

31:34.04

David Hirsch

So for any of the parents that are listening, If this is an issue, right, that is a priority or important, I would strongly suggest they get plugged into one of the local SIBs networks.

31:53.57

Jonathan Guerrero

Disability often comes with might with massive financial burden. How does the book offer any wisdom on how a father can lead his family through the economic pivot that often follows a diagnosis?

32:07.26

David Hirsch

Holy moly. um Well, I'm thinking about what's in the book. And then I'm also thinking about what is it I do for a living. And I'm certainly not able to give financial advice on a podcast or generically, but Practically speaking, i think that um because one of our big priorities as a parent or as a dad for that matter is to be a financial provider, i think it would be critical, super important to make sure that you do the foundational things. um

32:40.70

David Hirsch

And the first is to have the proper level of life insurance.

32:44.50

Jonathan Guerrero

Thank you.

32:44.86

David Hirsch

Right. It's remarkable to me in my 41 years as a professional financial advisor, when I'm meeting with a couple for the first time and I'm doing a full, very broad, you know, arms around getting an understanding about where they're at, what's going on.

33:01.98

David Hirsch

I'm shocked by the lack of things like life insurance and wills. Right. So I think it's super important that the dad takes the lead and doesn't um be a subordinate to the mom to take the lead on what we're talking about. So two basic things, make sure the wills are in place, guardians have been identified you know through the wills and that you have adequate level of life insurance.

33:34.62

David Hirsch

So in the unlikely event that something happens to dad, if he's the primary breadwinner, it's not gonna leave the family in a lurch. Those are the two basic things that come to mind. Beyond that, I think another responsibility that the dad probably should take the initiative on is to do the financial planning with individuals who are more experienced.

34:01.33

David Hirsch

There's something called the Special Needs Alliance, which is a group of about 150, more 200 attorneys around the US who have committed more than 50% or more of their practices to serving the disability community.

34:15.61

David Hirsch

And these are the eagles within the financial planning world who have dedicated themselves to serving families with disability. And when I say financial planning, I'm talking about from a legal perspective, not from an investment perspective.

34:30.65

David Hirsch

and making sure that if there is a need for special needs trusts to be set up, that you engage sooner than later and educate yourself um about what's involved and align yourself with somebody that could provide you with those services as early as practical. And the reason i suggest that is that it's going to take some of the burden off of your mind of what happens in all these different scenarios.

34:59.13

David Hirsch

um Oftentimes, parents who have a child with a disability are either looking backwards, grieving the coulda, woulda, shoulda type of situation.

35:10.55

David Hirsch

What would our lives be like if we didn't have a child with a disability mentality? robbing themselves of being present in their child's lives by always looking backwards. And then thinking about it the other direction, they're worrying about the future, right? All these different scenarios, who's going to take care of my child?

35:30.26

David Hirsch

You know, what's going to happen after I'm gone? You know, all these concerns that are logical, right? We're human beings, right? So I think by going through the planning process, it erases some of the uncertainty because you've thought through it. It's not easy.

35:47.38

David Hirsch

It's not like one short conversation. It's a process. But if you align yourself with people that have the level of experience that I'm referring to, hopefully it irons out some of the wrinkles and takes away some of the anxiety that goes along with the fear of the future.

36:04.63

Jonathan Guerrero

If you're listening to this and you're that dad, the one who just got the diagnosis, the one sitting in the hospital parking lot, or the one struggling to find the words to explain things to your other kids, I want you to hear this.

36:19.10

Jonathan Guerrero

The map has changed, but the mission remains. You were chosen for this specific journey because you have the capacity to be the advocate, the protector, and the hero that your child needs.

36:32.47

Jonathan Guerrero

But as David has shown us today, a hero without a squad is just a target. You don't have to carry the weight of this diagnosis on your own shoulders. David's book, Dad's Raising Children with Special Needs and Disabilities, is your new tactical manual.

36:48.62

Jonathan Guerrero

It's filled with the collective wisdom of over a thousand fathers who have walked exactly where you're standing. It's got the strategy you need for meetings, the heart you need for the hard nights, and even the dad jokes that you need to keep your spirits intact.

37:04.86

Jonathan Guerrero

Order the book. You can find dads raising children with special needs and disabilities right now on Amazon. We've placed a direct link right below the episode description to make it super easy.

37:16.34

Jonathan Guerrero

Just look for the episode called Strength and Strategy for Special Needs Dads. I'll say it again. Strength and Strategy for Special Needs Dads.

37:28.76

Jonathan Guerrero

if you If you want to connect with the Special Fathers Network or find a mastermind group of men who get it, head over to 21stCenturyDads.org. That's 21stCenturyDads.org.

37:41.75

Jonathan Guerrero

That link will also be below the episode description. Your child's disability is not a detour. It's a new territory where your leadership is needed more than ever.

37:54.04

Jonathan Guerrero

Get the book, find your tribe, and keep standing tall. A big, big thank you to David Hirsch for his decades of service to fathers everywhere. Until next time, stay durable, stay present, and remember that your presence is the greatest gift your family will ever receive.

38:13.90

Jonathan Guerrero

We'll see you in the next episode.

38:18.10

David Hirsch

Jonathan, that was terrific. Thank you so much.

Learn more about Ancientz and place orders at https://ancientz.com/

Find resources and information about The Fatherhood Challenge at https://linktr.ee/thefatherhoodchallenge

Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

00:05.56

Jonathan Guerrero

This episode is an update on the Ancients franchise. If the Ancients sounds familiar, it's because the Ancients characters were featured in an episode called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. If you haven't listened to that episode, I would encourage you to stop and listen to that episode first and then come back to this one so everything will have context and make sense.

00:26.52

Jonathan Guerrero

Now we're going to get an update on the growth of the Ancients franchise. and how you can get your own Ancients characters. And we're going to do all this in just a moment. So don't go anywhere.

01:16.50

Jonathan Guerrero

Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me and my co-host Isaac. Hello everyone. Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge. I am very pleased to have the creator of the Ancients franchise here with us.

01:28.54

Jonathan Guerrero

And he's here.

01:29.12

Howard Quiggly Chang

Hi.

01:29.34

Jonathan Guerrero

He's joining us remotely. His name is Howard Chang. Howard, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.

01:35.06

Howard Quiggly Chang

Hey, thanks for having me back again. ah appreciate this.

01:40.06

Jonathan Guerrero

So I got to start out with my favorite dad joke. What is the best way to save your dad jokes?

01:49.24

Howard Quiggly Chang

I have no idea.

01:51.22

Jonathan Guerrero

What? In a data and a database.

01:55.61

Howard Quiggly Chang

Ah, okay.

01:59.77

Howard Quiggly Chang

Love it

02:02.06

Jonathan Guerrero

Isaac doesn't look so good. You ready for the next one?

02:08.80

Howard Quiggly Chang

it. Am I ready?

02:09.11

Jonathan Guerrero

the The next joke?

02:09.62

Howard Quiggly Chang

Should I be?

02:10.03

Jonathan Guerrero

Yes. Oh, yeah you got two? I'm sorry, there's two. ah Howard, bear with me.

02:17.72

Howard Quiggly Chang

<unk> I'm brazing.

02:19.74

Jonathan Guerrero

So I learned something really interesting yesterday. yesterday Apparently, dogs can't operate um ah um MRI machines, but cats can.

02:34.99

Howard Quiggly Chang

That's cute.

02:36.46

Jonathan Guerrero

All right.

02:37.97

Howard Quiggly Chang

Oh, I got one. ah why did the Why did the tomato blush?

02:39.08

Jonathan Guerrero

Can we, can we?

02:43.08

Jonathan Guerrero

Why?

02:44.31

Howard Quiggly Chang

Because he saw the salad dressing.

02:50.94

Howard Quiggly Chang

that That was probably the worst one today. yeah

02:53.78

Jonathan Guerrero

I like that one.

02:56.18

Howard Quiggly Chang

That's lovely.

02:58.36

Jonathan Guerrero

We got a bonus today. Three jokes. We don't even get one joke sometimes. Oh, that's true.

03:06.42

Howard Quiggly Chang

Okay. so So now that we lost all our list listeners.

03:07.12

Jonathan Guerrero

Ugh.

03:13.85

Jonathan Guerrero

oh

03:16.41

Jonathan Guerrero

Howard, this is a question that has been picking on my mind for a bit. And actually, these two questions are going to be in the same one. Why? Because they both have something to do with the same place.

03:28.92

Jonathan Guerrero

So one time, me and my dad were walking into a trading card store, since I love football cards and I collect them. I guess that's like a hobby that I do. I like collecting football cards.

03:40.71

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yeah.

03:41.11

Jonathan Guerrero

And inside of that store, i we saw a bunch of Lego sets, which was kind of weird even though it's a trading card store. But anyway, we came inside and we saw bunch of Lego sets.

03:52.98

Jonathan Guerrero

And this leads down to my first question. I asked my dad, I'm like, hmm, what if they made Lego ancients? And he's like, hmm, whoa, whoa, whoa! And he was like, whoa, that's actually not a bad idea!

04:06.49

Jonathan Guerrero

if So have you considered... And I said it just like that. That's not a idea. So have you considered making trading cards or a Lego version of ancients?

04:21.42

Howard Quiggly Chang

That's a very good question. You know, this Ancients franchise, it's not not limited to what we're doing. I'm only doing what we're doing, making the art toys, collectible figurines, because number one, we can afford to do that, kind of, and that's something we can do right away.

04:41.08

Howard Quiggly Chang

But a lot of exciting things to share today. we have a huge story that's about to be released. and Nothing's impossible. I mean, I was at the LA comic con in, in November of 2025. And I saw a lot of vendors selling Legos that are, at are like, you know, Batman Legos and all that. There's, you can do Legos as those tiny figures that you can put on your Lego sets, or you can actually do a whole license, something with Lego to do an actual build.

05:16.34

Howard Quiggly Chang

You know, you can like, I don't know if you remember the thing called bionics or something like that. um But we could do something like that as long as they're okay with it and we can sell it to them. We'd love to have a Lego ancients.

05:32.98

Howard Quiggly Chang

And as far as trading cards are concerned, yeah, I have a lot of friends who are really into trading cards. I used to collect. and I actually have a bunch of football cards, Isaac. I have a like real old ones from my past. have a bunch of Emmett Smiths still in their case and everything. so i got I know all about cards, but um you know when you do trading cards like Pokemon or One Piece,

06:02.46

Howard Quiggly Chang

And we're a perfect match for it because we're gonna have we could have thousands of characters. so There are so many characters in the Bible. So we really align the Ancients franchise to be a mix between Robotech. If you look it up, it's a really cool robot show I used to watch when I was a kid mixed with Pokemon.

06:23.70

Howard Quiggly Chang

Pokemon because there's so many characters that that can come out of it. You know, the prophets, the the legends, to the villains.

06:29.63

Jonathan Guerrero

you you know

06:30.36

Howard Quiggly Chang

So there's there's a whole opportunity there. So we we've been actually talking to a couple of ah board game companies, and they also specialize in in cards. And I was at the West Coast Card Show last year, and there are people very interested in helping me build an ancient card set.

06:51.77

Howard Quiggly Chang

out but it takes a lot of work because um if you know pokemon and one piece they're actually games they have their powers and their strengths and you can like compete against each other right so that part's hard to figure out but once that's ready it could be tied into a board game or something but Yeah, car trading cars are definitely 100%. We're gonna do that.

07:17.18

Howard Quiggly Chang

As soon as you find the right partner and Legos man, I mean, Isaac, I'd love to do it.

07:23.06

Jonathan Guerrero

yeah i mean i'm like really in the trading cards and i love them so that's just that's good to hear

07:27.56

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yeah.

07:30.10

Jonathan Guerrero

on

07:30.26

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yeah, a whole world of trading cards has have opened up to me. They're saying that trading cards now are a better investment than stock or stocks or even Bitcoin, right?

07:41.94

Howard Quiggly Chang

So we'll see where it goes with the ancient trading cards. It could be the the big thing.

07:47.14

Jonathan Guerrero

That actually makes a lot of sense to me because there is less volatility in the trading card industry than there is in crypto and Bitcoin.

07:55.99

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yeah, yeah. I mean...

07:56.98

Jonathan Guerrero

Or even the stock market.

07:58.51

Howard Quiggly Chang

It's really hard to break in to trading cards unless you have a lot of things in place, like number one, the game and everything. So what they're saying is before you tie into a company that can help manufacture and get the trading cards out to the market, they're saying that I should start drawing and doing some one-offs, right? Original, right?

08:24.57

Howard Quiggly Chang

like David and Goliath trading card. And I'll just sketch it out. And these are one of the kinds and um it'll get the ball rolling. So that's something that I'm considering, but we got, we'll talk about it today on the show, but there's a lot of things going on right now.

08:42.07

Jonathan Guerrero

Good to hear. Why are ancient robots instead of humans? For example, why do you think God wanted it that way?

08:52.38

Howard Quiggly Chang

um I don't know if I ah shared it with you guys on the first episode, but, um you know, when I first thought of ancients, you know, it was, I wanted something to buy for my kids who were roughly four, six, and nine at the time. And um I was looking it up, like, what can I get for my kids that's, you know, Bible-facing, right?

09:17.94

Howard Quiggly Chang

something that you know could you can you can share your your faith with. And I couldn't find anything. The only thing I said i found were you know just David and Goliath wearing a loincloth and fighting each other. And I guarantee if I bought that for my kids, they would disown me.

09:34.26

Howard Quiggly Chang

I wouldn't be here today. right

09:35.94

Jonathan Guerrero

Thank you.

09:36.50

Howard Quiggly Chang

but um So during a time of prayer, I was in prayer, i was looking at, I was near the Christmas tree and I'm like, the the Christmas tree, the Christmas is, um you know, celebrating Jesus' birthday and nothing beyond secular is interesting to anybody to get gifts for during Christmas.

10:01.11

Howard Quiggly Chang

So I just imagined what I could create since I had a background in toys, Ninja Turtles and Star Trek and what have in the past. And man, in prayer, i was getting I was getting these visions and there were robots. And i maybe because I grew up loving robots, you know, and oh what cooler thing than robots for kids to want for christmas right and these these images would and let's just continue to to to come and it was mainly during prayer and i would actually see shapes and images and i would draw it out and on on paper and um you know 10 years later and i had a few times when i was trying to pursue it but i got busy

10:25.46

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah. yeah

10:46.55

Howard Quiggly Chang

But here I am, and these images I had during prayer are now on paper and in 3D form.

10:55.58

Jonathan Guerrero

Well, Japan has heavily influenced the comic industry. And so I'm wondering if maybe God had Japan in his sights.

11:04.86

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yeah, I mean, if you know... ah i'm I'm Korean American, but I know that a lot of my friends have been to Japan. It's really spiritually challenged ah when it comes to biblical teaching and and faith.

11:24.95

Howard Quiggly Chang

And yeah I mean, Japan... led the world with anime right all the all the robots the the first one i used to really enjoy when i was a kid was mazinga and they had you know all these shogun warriors um robotech came from their uh gunnam uh robots and maybe i don't know maybe god wants us to penetrate japan with these robots that come from america

11:58.94

Jonathan Guerrero

Have you made more characters yet?

12:01.91

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yes, I've always been designing them, but just a long story short, we're just trying to get these out right now as soon as we can. and As soon as they're out and as soon as we can um just...

12:17.88

Howard Quiggly Chang

get the ball rolling, I'm really ready to release them and finish them up. I have ah an amazing Pharaoh character, but I just need to finish it up a little bit. ah Moses will be coming out. We're coming out with the prophet models.

12:32.34

Jonathan Guerrero

Arrow

12:32.62

Howard Quiggly Chang

isaiah Isaiah, you know, and and Daniel and everyone else. But yeah, I mean, this is going to be ongoing. We're going to have, i mean, we're excited. i mean, we're starting with eight characters, which you already guys already know.

12:46.46

Howard Quiggly Chang

But you know

12:47.69

Jonathan Guerrero

Isaac's excited right now like you should see him.

12:49.62

Howard Quiggly Chang

we're trying to come out with everything.

12:50.30

Jonathan Guerrero

He's in shock What talking about?

12:52.70

Howard Quiggly Chang

But if you see...

12:53.85

Jonathan Guerrero

I'm in shock. You're also in shock, too. Okay. I am a little bit too. Yeah see

12:57.72

Howard Quiggly Chang

I'm in shock, guys. You know? And this this is like, imagine if this is God's work, imagine what but what else he's going to come up with. Right. I mean, imagine Pharaoh holding his staff and like Cobra figure coming out of the top of his he helmet.

13:15.77

Howard Quiggly Chang

And then he's got the the colors. And yes, it's exciting.

13:27.43

Jonathan Guerrero

Have you made the games or the movies yet? Are there plans to do so?

13:31.93

Howard Quiggly Chang

um

13:34.23

Jonathan Guerrero

But if you told me, then you'd have to kill me.

13:34.26

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yes.

13:37.05

Howard Quiggly Chang

ah Well, there's a ah lot of things happening now, as I mentioned before at the start of the podcast. Exciting stuff. um We have a meeting with a major toy company, a second meeting now. They want us to bring in the story bible.

13:54.07

Howard Quiggly Chang

tomorrow at 1 p.m. on the 7th of March. So it's exciting. We had ah our first meeting three months ago, two months ago, I think, and then they want us back in.

14:06.62

Howard Quiggly Chang

And um I can't name names, but they have toys in Walmart, Toys R Us. I mean, not Toys R Us, Target, Amazon, everywhere. right They're major toy company. um I was shocked at first. I didn't think they would be interested in anything spiritual, but...

14:25.40

Howard Quiggly Chang

they actually thought it was pretty cool. And what we've been working on, a story bible is basically if you have any IP, that's intellectual property, like toys, figures, whatever,

14:40.25

Howard Quiggly Chang

Like what world do they live in What are the elements? Give us a detail of each character, what they like, what what their strengths are and everything. So we created a story Bible and we got help from one of our advisors, our close friend, who is a movie producer.

14:59.00

Howard Quiggly Chang

He worked on a lot of Will Smith films, right? So he's helped us draw up an amazing story. There's lot of human characters in there. with The guy who created it, the 10-year-old son who was ah who was a prodigy who figured out the last step to get the spirits into the robots.

15:19.45

Howard Quiggly Chang

And then it's like five years later, him and his group of friends are actually the main force fighting Professor Ball's attempt to take over the world with Goliath, Sarah, Pharaoh, and all the the villains in the Bible.

15:33.24

Howard Quiggly Chang

So, yeah, I mean, another meeting ah tomorrow. And the story Bible is being sent to a production company who has a lot of shows on Netflix. They're having a meeting with about ancients coming up.

15:50.28

Jonathan Guerrero

What were God's original intentions for ancients?

15:55.48

Howard Quiggly Chang

um you like I can't tell you, but from my feelings and my thoughts is that from how the idea came was I wanted the Bible to be represented in the coolest way possible.

16:12.38

Howard Quiggly Chang

um the way the world was turning, every time you mentioned the Bible, people's heads look away. I don't know if you've noticed, right?

16:23.06

Howard Quiggly Chang

The Bible's the number one best-selling book ever to humanity. And I wanted the stories to be exposed.

16:35.19

Howard Quiggly Chang

And like the ancients are not going to reproduce the stories in the Bible, but they're the characters that that were in the stories. And I wanted to bring them out, and I wanted to bring the curiosity of people to learn about the the stories in the Bible. That has changed my life and millions of people's lives just by bringing hope. you know And if you look at all the the heroes in the Bible, there weren't any superheroes like Batman or Superman. There were just broken people, in a lot of them.

17:05.14

Howard Quiggly Chang

Just the regular Joes who um decided to use faith instead of doing things that aren't on accord.

17:16.92

Jonathan Guerrero

One thing I find that's interesting is when God lays out a master plan for your life and he gives you what seems like an impossible assignment. And the part of this, I'm speaking from my own experience.

17:29.85

Jonathan Guerrero

One, God gives you the tools to do it. And number two his purpose is twofold. And one purpose is you, your own spiritual and personal and character development.

17:44.15

Jonathan Guerrero

that you can't undertake a task like that and not grow. those two just go together. You're going to be challenged. You're going to have times when you're facing a wall that you cannot get over in your humanity. And the only way you're going to get past that challenge is your faith in God. It's to trust God to get you past that challenge to do the impossible.

18:09.02

Jonathan Guerrero

So you grow. And then the other part of it is God just has a bleeding heart for humanity. Literally a bleeding heart for humanity.

18:21.05

Jonathan Guerrero

through what Jesus did, so much so that a lot of these Comic-Cons are our demonic turf. And we talked about this in the last episode that we did. There are a lot of demonically influenced characters that appear at these events.

18:37.30

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yeah. yep

18:38.01

Jonathan Guerrero

And so God is sending you and sending ancients into demonic turf. And the playbook is the same. So when these kids walk up to a demonically inspired character, and they get curious about it, and they pick it up, and they handle it and they play with it, and they ask questions, and they're curious.

18:57.53

Jonathan Guerrero

That is consent. That is an open door. And many of those kids and adults will walk out of those events with a with a demonic spirit attached to them that will stay with them until something changes, until that consent changes.

19:15.26

Jonathan Guerrero

So by the same token, the same rules apply to the Holy Spirit's side. So when you're showing up with these events and kids are showing up and you've told me about the lines where they're just curious and they want to know what these characters are, they want to know what the writing is on the side, how they can find the original story so they can read it for themselves.

19:34.16

Howard Quiggly Chang

Mm-hmm.

19:38.22

Jonathan Guerrero

That is also consent. That is also an open door, but for the Holy Spirit this time. You know, that actually, um at the beginning there, when you're talking about how God will give you specific assignment, He'll give you a task that feels impossible, that reminded me a lot about Moses.

19:57.21

Jonathan Guerrero

And another part, because also like you were saying at the very end of of what you're talking about there, when you come home with handling those ancients, And that's why they have, and like Howard has said, um that's why they have the writing on the side of it. So then you can find it. So that you can find where it is in the Bible.

20:17.30

Howard Quiggly Chang

Right. um I think Jonathan, you hit a good point. You know, the whole industry of collectibles and the entertainment in general is all about just ah ah the mean, wicked look of a character that looks so awesome, that blood coming out of this it's its fangs. You know what i mean? um That's what's been leading all entertainment lately, majority of it, right?

20:51.77

Howard Quiggly Chang

And you know this ah this is a gargantuan task. um you know I remember somewhere that you know when you want to do something, don't do something where you think you can handle it is within your means.

21:06.68

Howard Quiggly Chang

do something that's God-sized, that's impossible. um to To create an IP like this, to create something that we think can have international appeal, like some kid in Africa one day, never even heard of what the Bible is, looks at it, collects it, loves it.

21:24.98

Howard Quiggly Chang

And then somehow he's interested in the the background story and everything. Yeah, that is the vision. But to have that vision, you need half a billion dollars. You need 500 million to just even have a chance at doing something like this.

21:41.14

Howard Quiggly Chang

So, you know, when God tells you to do something God's eyes, do something that you know you can't do with your own power. And if ancients does become a world...

21:52.98

Howard Quiggly Chang

wide sensation you know for sure it wasn't me i grew like you said during that process but it was definitely god doing the work and he will be glorified and we we just know that when he gives you an assignment don't shy away don't overthink it thinking i need this much money i don't have it so i can't do it You know, just go for it. like Like Isaac said, reminds me of Moses, right? And all the characters, of car characters in the Bible, Joseph, Daniel, you you name it.

22:31.61

Jonathan Guerrero

What feedback have you been getting from others about ancients?

22:36.28

Howard Quiggly Chang

Oh, man, I think so far, I'd like to say 99% excitement. The 1% are some people that were saying, I don't know why toys would be so expensive. And ah we just respond, it's not toys. These are collectible from the artists themselves.

22:55.38

Howard Quiggly Chang

When the toys come out, let's say the the mainstream toys come out, they will be around $12 to $20 right? Because they have the full manufacturing capacity. And some people would say, actually quote that these look demonic.

23:11.46

Howard Quiggly Chang

Well, they could... They can see it from many different views, right? But overall, people love it. lot of great feedback.

23:23.83

Jonathan Guerrero

How has the Christian community helped with the sharing of ancients with the world?

23:28.63

Howard Quiggly Chang

Oh, they love it. um So far, the the small community that that we're involved with. I don't know if you know, but we we also did the Alpha Omega Con, which is a a Christian and biblical convention that was here in SoCal. We're going to go again.

23:46.40

Howard Quiggly Chang

It's, a you know, I mean, the main thing with this project is we need all the connections. We need to raise money to get to where we want to get.

23:58.01

Howard Quiggly Chang

But it it has been easy. When the word money comes into play, a lot of people shy away. And I don't expect everybody to you know to come in. But we're we're faithful that God will provide.

24:14.55

Jonathan Guerrero

I know in the last episode, you mentioned that even at most of the popular Comic Cons, there's still interest. There's still curiosity for these characters. What has been your experience with that curiosity at other Comic Cons?

24:30.81

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yeah, you know, um we didn't do many. We've only done Comic-Con. Where we go? We did one to a few smaller events San Diego. We did the DesignerCon in Las Vegas.

24:45.53

Howard Quiggly Chang

We walked around and and got support from LA Comic-Con. And in two weeks, we'll be at WonderCon here in Anaheim.

24:57.18

Howard Quiggly Chang

But overall, not it's not always Christians that come by, but especially if they're people of faith, they would come over and say, hey, you know, my son's name is Nehemiah. Please make Nehemiah soon. And we get a lot of great support from believers, even the nonbelievers. They just come over and just love to look and feel of it.

25:18.10

Howard Quiggly Chang

They would ask when it's going to be available. And a Number one thing, let me jump to something. The biggest problem we've been having is, you know how all of our characters' our eyes light up?

25:30.30

Howard Quiggly Chang

And, you know, yeah, that's that's the hardest thing to do when it comes to manufacturing.

25:30.74

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, I love that feature. That's the coolest part about them almost. Almost.

25:36.53

Howard Quiggly Chang

And it took us this long just to get the lighting feature to two so we can be able to um recharge it with the USB-C cord and have that that button and make it fit for all the characters.

25:50.17

Howard Quiggly Chang

And But you know what? I'm not going to shy away. A lot of people said, just take away the lighting feature and you'll be able to sell it like tomorrow. But we've been delaying just to get that lighting feature going.

26:02.97

Howard Quiggly Chang

And most people love the lighting feature. And one of my main goals is to have a light in a dark world, right? Especially when you imagine your your ancient eyes are lit up at night.

26:16.66

Howard Quiggly Chang

You know, how great is that? You know?

26:17.82

Jonathan Guerrero

yeah Yeah, I can just picture laying down in my in my room at night and just staring off to the side and looking at the eyes blowing up on them. Isaac votes to keep the lights.

26:28.60

Howard Quiggly Chang

Exactly.

26:30.33

Jonathan Guerrero

Yes, I vote to keep the lights.

26:32.82

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yeah, I mean, yeah, people that we did a survey at DesignerCon. And what's your favorite feature? And most people said they love the light lighted eyes, right?

26:43.26

Howard Quiggly Chang

and

26:43.35

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, also love with the hair flowing back behind him i don't know if it's hairs, but yeah.

26:47.32

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yeah, well, what it is, it's it's called the Luminara. It's in the story Bible. So the technology, they're robots, but they're operated by spirits, right? But the there's a glowing or orb, like for David, it's is's light blue.

27:03.58

Howard Quiggly Chang

And there's like flowing tendrils that come out of it, like an octopus, right? And that's this that's what encases and holds the spirits. And once it's put into the robots, that spirit operates that robot.

27:17.69

Howard Quiggly Chang

So it's almost like a kind of a predator kind of feeling, which I loved watching when I was a kid. I still do. i love predator. And that was my influence.

27:34.30

Jonathan Guerrero

Do you have any testimonies of or testimonials of how Anxious has helped to share the truth of the Bible and who Jesus is with others, especially with kids?

27:46.23

Howard Quiggly Chang

ah You know, not as of yet, because we're not out there in the market yet. We we haven't sold. We have all the pre-orders from Kickstarter and our website, but it's not in people's hands yet.

27:59.67

Howard Quiggly Chang

I can't really say, but I'll give you a testimony. and I'm doing this. We know that it's going to take all the faith in the world to to just keep our head above water.

28:10.78

Howard Quiggly Chang

And, you know, we, Gloria, my wife and I, we've been going to this local church that has a morning service every single day, rain or shine. And we wake up 5.30 every day. every day we We said, let's do it three times a week. We've we've been going six times a week.

28:29.18

Howard Quiggly Chang

And Sunday is it church service. But we've been we feel like, dude, we've got to go. at first, it was hard waking up at 5.20 every morning. But now, like we depend on it.

28:40.31

Howard Quiggly Chang

So like going back to answer your previous question, yeah, I mean, it's a... We've been growing spiritually just by working on this project.

28:54.23

Jonathan Guerrero

How can dads find Ancients characters for their kids?

28:58.16

Howard Quiggly Chang

Um... it's going to be available soon like i said we're still manufacturing it's taking a long time mainly because of the lights and the money situation but if you go to ancients.com that's ancients with the z not a s all our characters our information's on the website you can see the link to our instagram and everything but now we have a pre-order website open And we're anticipating shipping this out next month in April, mid-April or so.

29:30.14

Howard Quiggly Chang

um The initial first series is called the Alpha Series because we don't quite have the money to do full manufacturing overseas yet. Only the light pieces are done overseas, and going to Actually, you may want to get the Alpha series because it's going to be a limited edition. We're going to make it by hand.

29:49.71

Howard Quiggly Chang

I'm going to be hand painting it myself, most of them. So that's what that's going to be available.

29:53.50

Jonathan Guerrero

Oh yeah, we definitely want those.

29:56.33

Howard Quiggly Chang

And then once the Alpha series is done, we might have the Beta series where We're going to just order maybe 10,000 pieces. But once we get to full production, you know hopefully we have them multi-million dollar investment. We're going to be able to do full production with our factories overseas.

30:14.87

Jonathan Guerrero

So just to make things easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com, And if you go to the episode called An Update on the Ancients Franchise, and An Update on the Ancients Franchise, look right below the episode description. I'm going to have the links that were mentioned posted right there for your convenience.

30:38.81

Jonathan Guerrero

So, Howard, as we close, what is your challenge for dads listening?

30:45.56

Howard Quiggly Chang

Oh man, I personally, i have three kids of my own. As you know, I've been a single dad for 13 years. So my oldest daughter just turned 21.

31:02.01

Howard Quiggly Chang

My second's in college now in UC Riverside, 18. My youngest one's an 11th grader. You know, i've I've learned a lot being a single dad I've learned a now i'm remarried with gloria so we she has two kids so 23 turning 24 and 22 so yeah i'm i can say i'm a father of five kids one of the things i learned um going through fatherhood is you know sometimes you gotta let the kids fail i mean what i see nowadays parents are just overly trying to control

31:43.77

Howard Quiggly Chang

their future. They're trying to provide everything and it's it's natural. But sometimes I feel like when you let the kids fail, you know, you don't have to guide them every moment.

31:58.58

Howard Quiggly Chang

That's when they learn the most. And sometimes I feel like we humans in general need to fail. And sooner than later, we seek the Lord.

32:15.12

Jonathan Guerrero

I absolutely love that. And i will add to that. What we add the most as dads is that safety, that safety environment, that safe environment to fail where it is safe to fail, to experience that failure.

32:33.66

Jonathan Guerrero

So absolutely love what you said there. Howard, a huge, huge thank you Isaac, do you have anything before we close? Any thoughts? you good?

32:45.33

Jonathan Guerrero

Nope. All right. Well, thank you so much, Howard, for being on the Fatherhood Challenge. This was a really, really fun conversation.

32:53.56

Howard Quiggly Chang

I had a good time. i Hopefully we'll do another one when everything's available.

32:58.01

Jonathan Guerrero

um would love that.

32:59.22

Howard Quiggly Chang

Yeah.

32:59.45

Jonathan Guerrero

um so so i'm I'm so excited for when they are available.

33:03.54

Howard Quiggly Chang

very soon guys

To connect with Jerold Limongelli or learn more about what he is doing, visit: https://taplink.cc/thekingdommindedman?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMjU2MjgxMDQwNTU4AAGnQkyLhDXosRqWd8JaheU-ZPZELpPRAlb4A43C-qdpXeMDl27JKpBgdJsXoNw_aem_yaLcAthlJ587o3vdKsAJlA

Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

Jerold Limongelli didn't just study the New Age; he lived it. He climbed that ladder until he realized it was leaning against a hollow wall. Now, he’s dedicated his life to helping fathers dismantle the deception and lead their families back to the only Truth that actually holds weight: Jesus Christ.

This episode is part 1. Part 2 continues in the next episode.

Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

00:00:05.56

Jonathan Guerrero

If I told you that there was a spiritual movement trying to take over your home, you'd probably look for a guy in a robe or a cult leader on the news. But the most dangerous deception, the most dangerous deceptions don't arrive with a warning label.

00:00:20.25

Jonathan Guerrero

They arrive as self-help, wellness, and mindfulness. In 2026, New Age philosophy has been replaced for the modern dad. it's in It's in the manifesting techniques of your favorite business inlur and influencer.

00:00:36.42

Jonathan Guerrero

It's in the follow your heart messaging in your kids cartoons. It tells you that you are the center of the universe, that your truth is the only truth, and that you can vibrate your way into a better life.

00:00:49.98

Jonathan Guerrero

It sounds empowering. It feels like good vibes. but it's a spiritual Trojan horse. When the self is in your own when self is your only God, you have no anchor when the storm hits. And as dads, if we don't know how to spot the counterfeit, we can't protect our kids from it.

00:01:09.59

Jonathan Guerrero

We end up raising children who are spiritually adrift because we traded the Rock of Ages for a handful of crystals and positive energy. I brought a guest who will help dads spot the counterfeits, protect their family, and connect to the ultimate source of power and success. And he will join us in just a moment. So don't go anywhere.

00:02:12.28

Jonathan Guerrero

Greetings, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me and my co-host and son, Isaac. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Poderic Challenge. Yes, Isaac is back.

00:02:21.09

Joyful Jerold

you

00:02:21.82

Jonathan Guerrero

This episode is called The Counterfeit Covenant. Today, we are joined by Gerald Limongeli. Gerald didn't just study the New Age. He lived it. He climbed that ladder until he realized it was leaning against the hollow wall.

00:02:36.95

Jonathan Guerrero

Now he's dedicated his life to helping fathers dismantle the deception and lead their families back to the only truth that actually holds weight, Jesus Christ.

00:02:47.94

Jonathan Guerrero

Gerald, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.

00:02:50.97

Joyful Jerold

Hey, thanks so much for having me. What an honor and a blessing to be here. I'm super grateful.

00:02:56.09

Jonathan Guerrero

Gerald, I know you have a powerful testimony to share, so I'm going to give you some space for you to share that now.

00:03:02.71