Mónica and Macon talk about the transformative work happening in the City Schools district of Baltimore. Macon outlines the evolution and impact of the ECPI and how it  aims to cultivate inclusive and equity-focused school leaders. 

Key elements of that goal include detailed partnerships with local universities, internal collaboration across various departments, and extensive community involvement. Their conversation highlights substantial initiatives being undertaken, showcasing the district's serious commitment to systemic change and student success.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

On turning schoolhouse into a community building

[04:15]  One of the biggest initiatives that I've been a part of in city schools is our portfolio work around renovating, closing, and even rebuilding new schools. If you look over the course of time, we had some of the oldest buildings in the state as well as up and down the East Coast as far as building structures were concerned. And so throughout this process we have been able to either rebuild, renovate 28 now, I think, schools across our district. And so that has allowed us to really turn that schoolhouse into a community building that is able to really shape and foster learning for all students but then reach out into the community as well so that we could be community schools. That has also allowed us to be able to bring in equity center leaders who are also able to foster and help grow communities.

How the partnership with the mayor’s office helped transform Baltimore City Schools

[05:13] Baltimore is one of those cities that you really don't hear a lot about, right? But our commitment to education has allowed us to really champion the work that we're doing. I'll also say the city schools, I think, has a great partnership with our mayor's office to ensure that there's a collaboration of how we are approaching the support that we're giving to our students and our school communities because we would not be able to change a city the way we've been able to do within the last 10 years under Dr. Santelises’ time without that tight partnership. So, Baltimore is definitely a unique place. It has its pockets. You look at those historical maps, and you have seen where redlining exists, right? But now when you start to look at our new academic data that's coming out, you see where the pockets are expanding as far as, like, growth and student achievement and resources and things like that. So we've definitely seen a transformation over the past 20 years since I've been here.

What made the partnership between university partners and city schools work

[13:30] There's a Baltimore context that talks about redlining all the historical context pieces, right? And so that was a foundational piece that everyone in the DPT (district partnership team) was able to be normed on. So then when we come into spaces, we leave titles at the door, we leave biases at the door, and we come into the space as centered as possible. That gave us the tool to actually engage and have authentic conversation and have transparent conversation. Unfortunately we had to sunset that at the end of last school year because of some new legislation that has come about. But those key principles are still things that we're able to still lean into and still abide by when we are in community together. I think that helped build the relationship between university partners and city schools. And so with that being one of those foundational key elements, I think that's where we've been able to see the yielded success of how we've been able to partner with our university partners specifically.

Show Links:

• ECPI | Wallace Foundation

Mónica and Carla talk about the evolution of Towson's partnership with Baltimore City Public Schools (BCPS) through the Equity Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI). Carla shares her experience in elementary and secondary education and the story of her role in founding the Green School of Baltimore. 

Carla notes how historical Towson's collaboration with BCPS is, and the context surrounding it. She explains the transformative impact of ECPI on their program, the importance of relationship-building, and the development of structures for sustaining equity-centered leadership pipelines. Their conversation highlights Towson's efforts to integrate professional development, co-teaching models, and shared leadership practices for the benefit of all cohorts in their programs.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Why Carla saw the Equity-Centered Pipeline Initiative as a promising opportunity

[05:51]  I would say that our leadership programs at Towson had, for sure, some equity-centered commitments prior to our joining ECPI, but that, to be honest, we knew that there was room for improvement in our programs in terms of our cohesiveness across instructors and the coherence of our through-lines across courses.

On why collaboration was hard to come by before ECPI

[08:31] I would say before ECPI, all of the faculty in our department are scholars of education and educational leadership, and also have significant practitioner experience, most of us in our local context. But I would say that, like many universities, our time teaching and preparing for teaching was primarily isolated in many ways, and that any impetus to collaborate was a little hard to come by. We had monthly faculty meetings, like most universities do, and during those times, we might gather instructors who were all teaching the same course and investigate what we were doing. But it wasn't nearly enough time to really be diving into a shared understanding of what we were hoping to provide our students with, and what, kind of, leadership practices we envisioned they would walk away from.

The often overlooked importance of building relationships in university-district partnerships

[14:53] I think the time spent building relationships also doesn’t always get the attention that it deserves. Some of that building relationships was around our professional commitments, and some of it was really getting to know each other personally as well. But the idea that my colleagues and I really came into this initiative having firm commitments to wanting to be of service to the district, that’s not the norm. Partnerships between universities and districts have historically tended to be primarily transactional. And so, even though we had that desire, it took significant amounts of time to really understand each other and know the depth of our values and commitments in order to find where those connections and leverage points really were.

How understanding Baltimore's context shapes today’s educational practices

[16:40] A deep understanding of the social and political history of the city of Baltimore is key to understanding how we move in our work. If you don't know how redlining worked in Baltimore, then you won't have a nuanced and comprehensive understanding of why our neighborhoods are the way they are, why economic stratification remains the way that it has been in Baltimore for so long. And of course, all of those things affect the way that our schools run. I mean, I would say that, kind of, commitment towards understanding and being respectful of context is true wherever you are, but it's important to us that we know what that is specifically in Baltimore City.

Show Links:

• Carla Finkelstein | Towson University
• Carla Finkelstein | LinkedIn Profile
• ECPI | Wallace Foundation

Mónica and Darryl talk about Darryl’s background and the work he’s doing at Morgan State University in Baltimore, MD. Darryl explains the strategic partnership between Morgan State University's School of Education and Urban Studies and Baltimore City Public Schools (BCPS) and elaborates on the Equity Center Principal Pipeline Initiative (ECPI) and its aim to develop sustainable and equitable leadership within the BCPS. 

Darryl emphasizes the importance of relevant, community-focused education and highlights the collaborative efforts that have strengthened the principal preparation program. They also reflect on the historical impact of Morgan State University as a historically black college and university (HBCU) and the critical importance of trust and communication in building effective institutional partnerships.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

On strengthening the pipeline

[08:01] I came at the beginning of year three of the partnership. So, I think the contribution that I saw when I came was really having key individuals come together and looking at the redesign of the principal pipeline. So, that included pre-service, those who were studying to become an administrator, those who then finished the program at the university, and those who were seeking placement as a principal intern or a first-year principal. So, in order to do that, the university had to sit down with the school officials and really look at what we were trying to strengthen in that pipeline. And so, that involved key individuals from the school system as well as the School of Education. And I think what we contribute that's unique for Morgan, and again, I go back to that strategic plan, there are goals that the School of Education and Urban Studies had. But we could also partner with other schools within the university, such as the School of Business and Management.

On his focus on student recruitment

[12:57] When I arrived, I had a focus and interest in one of the quality measures, which was the candidate admissions. So, that's about the recruitment. How were we recruiting? So, we went from a simple trifold that had some information to then being a part of many of the leadership symposiums, many of the recruitment efforts in the school system, (and) opportunities to have QR codes. So, we became a little bit more high-tech, much more visible. 

How Baltimore City’s uniqueness strengthened the partnership

[16:59] When you think about Baltimore City, you think about the richness of its history, you think about some of the challenges, you think about how they have built this pipeline to really help our leaders to be successful leaders to turn schools around. Sometimes there may not be as many resources. Sometimes there's great resources. Sometimes we are looking at small schools, we're looking at large schools. Sometimes we're looking at the phenomenon of a K-8 school. Those are unique. That's the context in which we have in our city, but what a great opportunity to really prepare students to take on those responsibilities. You know, I think about the history, I think about the resources, and just to see the partnership that the City schools really want the students to be successful because they're their staff. And so, we want them to be successful because a part of that is we get to say, "Yes, they are Morgan graduates." And also, our accreditation, we continue to provide evidence around our accreditation of how our graduates are doing. So, I think it's a win-win.

Show Links:

• Dr. Darryl Williams | Morgan State University
• Dr. Darryl Williams | National Center for the Elimination of Educational Disparities
• Dr. Darryl Williams | LinkedIn Profile
• ECPI | Wallace Foundation

Mónica and Shawn talk about Shawn’s extensive experience in public education and he details SAISD's initiatives to develop a sustainable leadership pipeline through their collaboration with the University of Texas at San Antonio (UTSA) and participation in the Wallace Foundation's Equity Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI). 

Their discussion covers SAISD's strategic focus on recruiting and nurturing high-quality leaders, the evolution and contributions of this partnership, and the impactful systemic changes aimed at enhancing student achievement and equity. Shawn highlights the importance of structured support for new principals and the innovative, organic growth of programs arising from ECPI. 

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Tackling recruitment challenges in urban school districts

[07:06] The district's gone through a lot of change, but one thing that we were struggling with, particularly after COVID, is our workforce preparation and just getting our workforce to just recruit people to come here and work because in urban settings, it is more challenging.

SHORT VIDEO: Preparing future leaders beyond the traditional preparation program

[09:38] In addition to those preparation academies, once you get the job, we have academies to support you in your first three years of the job, which include coaching and those kinds of things, which we're going to sustain even after the Wallace grant is gone. And that's part of what you do with Wallace is you have to have the sustainability plan, as you know. But that really speaks to the power of this collaboration. I mean, we're starting to see results already in terms of retention and also who is getting into these programs and the quality of candidates attracting. You know, we have a pretty rigorous selection process, and I've worked in urban education my whole career. And, you know, it does take a special personality to work in an urban core because you're dealing with really high poverty, and you're dealing with, a lot of times, students [who] have interrupted education or there's several grade levels behind. We have high mobility. There's lots of issues that you need to have skills to address when you work in the urban school district. And so we know we have to prepare people differently than just the traditional preparation program that they might go through in college.

On strengthening the ECPI Initiative through external partnerships

[13:32] UTSA is the main partner, but we also have worked with the University of Texas at Austin. They've done some stuff with our central office leadership because this has touched the central office as well. So, you know, because you can't just talk about equity without touching every part of the organization to make sure that it's operationalized and it's coming true.

SHORT VIDEO: Shawn shares what he’s most proud of in his work with San Antonio

[20:31] The thing about UTSA is they have really worked with us to modify their curriculum and their program to really meet the needs of… they're really preparing people to enter our schools. It's very much tailored. So I'm teaching a class right now, [and] the principalship and the project that we're having them do is look at their survey data, their climate and culture survey data where they currently work, and then develop a problem of practice. So if you were the principal tomorrow and you're just going into that job, this is what it is. What are you going to do to impact the culture? I mean, that project didn't exist before we made the partnership. And so, it's really just that collaboration with UTSA was really willing to open up their doors to us and say, What do you need? And, you know, not to offend our higher education partners, but, you know, they're usually pretty slow to change, and so UTSA has really been nimble, and they have demonstrated that they have a desire to really give us what we need in terms of the workforce.

Show Links:

• Shawn Bird | LinkedIn Profile
• SAISD | Homepage
• ECPI | Wallace Foundation

Mónica and Juan explore the history and development of the Urban School Leaders Collaborative (USLC) program, which began in 2003. The program focuses on equity-centered leadership and has expanded from a master’s degree program to include a Ph.D., with pathways now for both principals and superintendents. Juan illustrates the impact of the collaborative efforts between UT San Antonio and SAISD, highlighting the Equity Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI) supported by the Wallace Foundation. 

Their discussion covers the importance of sustainable leadership and the intentional collaboration between university faculty and district leaders. Listen in for insights into the challenges and strategies for creating a lasting and impactful leadership pipeline in education.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Building leadership pipelines rooted in community 

[03:07] The story for the program here at UT San Antonio began in 2003 with the efforts of Dr. Encarnacion Garza and, at that time, Dean Betty Merchant, who wanted to build a sustainable, grow-your-own model within the community of San Antonio. So at that time, they worked with San Antonio ISD and the superintendents to build and to develop a program that would be specific to the needs of the community and to the students and the population of San Antonio ISD. And then hence, that's why they developed the Urban School Leaders Collaborative in 2003.

Juan discusses the role of the university in sustaining the equity pipeline.

[16:19] I just feel that there's so much richness and tradition in this model, in this program. And [one of the] many things that I've learned is the whole notion of being intentional. Being intentional and transparent and authentic to make sure that this framework is understood and that it's not only respected but that it's really embraced as an opportunity for many school practitioners to look at their practice very differently.

The collaborative efforts between UT San Antonio and SAISD’s equity-focused partnership

[12:09] We are very proud that the USLC has always been incorporating clinical faculty into our leadership preparation at the master's level. So we always would invite graduates from our program to come and co-teach with us. However, due to budget and funding, sometimes it would be myself co-teaching another class with another graduate. It never was that we had a co-facilitation. Now because of the ECPI and the opportunities that have been afforded through this initiative, we have been able to be more intentional in that approach, meaning that all our coursework through the master's and the PhD, we have a co-teaching model. How that works is that every night when the cohort comes for class, they have two professors. One which is a tenured line professor from UT San Antonio from the department. And then we have the other one, who is a district member, whether at the campus level or at the district level, who is also co-teaching with that UTSA professor. So it has really helped us to develop a preparation that is aligned to meeting the needs and many times the initiatives that the district has set for.

Investing with intentionality: building authentic relationships rooted in community

Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez [27:53]: Part of the sustainability discussion is always about structures and processes, and maybe, actually, sustainability is about people and relationships. And so how do you continue to grow and deepen relationships around a broader network of people, both at the university and [on] the district side?

Dr. Juan Manuel Niño ​[28:51]: The process sometimes in the universities are not as predictable as I would wish we would have, right? And say, as [for] the funding and all of those aspects, I'm like, you know, creating a cadre of clinical faculty with an equity-centered mindset and becoming very, very familiar with a theory of action, to me, speaks of a sustainable model because we still have to invest and hire clinical model adjunct professors to come and help us teach. Why not invest with intentionality on building relationships with faculty members that are sitting in school districts and cultivating a cohort that will support this initiative? And that's what I've been doing since ECPI. And I think  that's one of the biggest strengths that ECPI has afforded the USLC is to take not only the ownership of USLC in the department, but also sharing that ownership with district leaders throughout San Antonio.

Show Links:

• Faculty Profile | UT San Antonio
• Profile | Journal of Research in Rural Education
• Juan’s Research Page | ResearchGate
• ECPI | Wallace Foundation

We think this episode is the perfect introduction to our Season 5 conversations with some of ECPI’s district and university partners. Enjoy!

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Rotunda Floyd-Cooper, Vice President of Education Leadership at The Wallace Foundation, about ECPI, which aims to develop equity-oriented school principals across eight diverse school districts in the U.S. 

The discussion explores the initiative's impact on educational leadership and practices, the critical role of community and university partnerships, and the unique, context-specific approaches to defining and implementing equity in education. Rotunda also shares insights into the continuous improvement processes and upcoming research findings that are expected in the future.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

How ECPI districts and their university partners ensure high-quality, equity-centered principal preparation programs.

12:36: [Mónica Byrne-Jiménez] How are the ECPI districts working with their university partners to make sure that their principal preparation is high-quality, equity-centered, and, sort of, building on strengths of the community?

12:52: [Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] Yeah, that’s a great question. What's been fantastic to see in these partnerships with districts and these institutions of higher education is, just as we know that the districts want pools of principal candidates who are well-prepared to meet the real-world demands of the role. We also know that the university partners strive to offer the highest quality and most relevant principal preparation programs to attract candidates and to meet the needs of the districts that they serve. That's the reason that the partnerships between the universities and the local school communities are so essential. Each district is either developing or revising leader standards and then working closely with their university partners to ensure that those standards will guide the pre-service work and preparation that the university partner offers. And in some cases, for example, in Columbus City Schools, in partnership with the Ohio State University, there's even collaboration on the development and support of in-service principals. These partnerships, in some cases, even result in more strategic approaches to preparation for assistant principals within the district.

The Wallace Foundation recognizes each district’s unique definition of equity.

07:59: [Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] While we do, at Wallace, think about equity in a very specific way, The Wallace Foundation is not imposing a singular definition of equity on the districts that we are partnering with. Each district has actually defined its own vision for equity with input from the community. And they are designing their pipelines with the vision for equity embedded that they have collaborated with their communities around. And what's really exciting about the work is that, in partnership with the stakeholders that I mentioned previously, they are iterating on what they learn over time about the needs of principals, along with the interests of their communities, and they leverage the deep knowledge of some of the other partners, like state agencies, as well as members of higher ed communities, to engage in this continuous improvement process.

08:51: [Mónica Byrne-Jiménez] And just hearing you say that now also makes me think that, actually, part of the approach, if that's the right word of the foundation, is to recognize that issues of equity have to be locally driven. And so, that's actually part of the equity definition, right? It's not something that can't be imposed, but rather locally driven, locally addressed in local leadership.

[Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] Yeah. I think that's a fantastic point.

Rotunda shares insights and hopes for sustaining Wallace leadership initiatives

19:10 Through a series of independent research studies, we're hoping to learn whether large districts, in partnership with all of the stakeholders that we've spent this time talking about, can create principal pipelines that are capable of producing and supporting leaders who can advance equity within their districts. We're also hoping, though, to be able to understand how local history and district culture shape approaches to equity. And more specifically, the researchers who are engaged in this component of a study will be able to document the cultural, historical, and organizational factors that district partnership teams have to grapple with as they develop visions, goals, and plans for equity-centered principal pipelines.

Show Links:

Recommended Resources:

• ​​​​Equity-Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI)

Guest Profile:

• Wallace Foundation Profile
• LinkedIn

Mónica and Paul discuss Learning Forward's international outreach, including their popular annual conference and strong membership base. Paul emphasizes the importance of cohesive principal pipelines and the educator lifecycle and also the significance of professional learning standards, their development process, and their adoption by states. Paul explains why aligning high-quality professional learning practices across educational systems and the critical partnerships between state agencies and higher education is necessary. 

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

The danger of not having a cohesive and comprehensive set of professional learning standards

[08:46] We see this a lot, and I'm sure you do too, both in the higher ed space and in the K12 space, is that what we really want to keep doing is trying to help increase the pockets of excellence that are there, right? And we know that there's a lot of pockets of excellence that schools, systems, and higher ed institutions engage in. But without that kind of cohesive and comprehensive set of standards, the danger is then you have a lack of common language. You have silos happening in a way that perpetuates, sometimes, inequities. It perpetuates practices that are not always evidence-based. And so just the fact of having that kind of anchor, and we often call our standards, kind of, like, the anchor document, right? And instead of [a] roadmap, [it] provides a real, I think, sense of clarity for how to align then practices. 

Why it’s no longer an option but a necessity to build a collaborative leadership space

[13:09] We know the challenges right now of retaining high-quality teachers and principals. And so it's interesting that while educator pay is important, it's often the perception of the leader in the principal seat number one. Then the culture of collaboration support that's going to build into [it], so I think I am fortunate that I get to do some of that work with systems too, to help build their leadership team capacity. Because that's the other thing we're seeing is [that] the principal job has become, not to sound too informal, but ginormous, right? Like how large right now the principal role [is] and how many hats they wear. And I think that's another reason why it's no longer an option but a necessity to build a culture of collaborative inquiry and a culture of collaboration as a leader. Because if you think about the history of, like, operational leader, you know, books, boilers, and buses, that principals started with, to kind of, sole instruction leader and what that meant. And now it's really important to build a collaborative leadership space.

On bringing leaders together across systems through the Leadership Team Institute

[14:09] Monica: I think in some ways, particularly around the principal role, it also breaks down the sense of isolation that can be really overwhelming in schools, and particularly, like you said, as we continue to make roles more complex. And then, in addition, sort of, the context is becoming more complex.

[14:27] Paul: Yeah. And I think that's the other important piece that you touched upon that I think is a lever for state agencies, and that is as an agency that has the power to convene. Leaders coming together because of what you just said—the isolation, the sometimes silos and challenges, and how often, and we have several networks that we lead and run, including one that I help lead called the Leadership Team Institute that brings leaders together across systems for that very purpose, right? To convene and to help spread and share both practices and challenges.

Show Links:

• LearningForward.org
• Profile | Learning Forward
• LinkedIn Profile
• Social Profile on X

Mónica and Paul discuss Paul’s role in the development and implementation of the Missouri Leadership Development System (MLDS) and the Missouri Teacher Development System (MTDS). Paul emphasizes the importance of a systemic approach to educator preparation, certification, and development, highlighting significant strides in teacher recruitment and retention. Paul also brings up the various challenges and successes of fostering statewide partnerships, using data to drive improvement, and continuously adapting to changing educational landscapes. 

In the Lead with UCEA  is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

The challenges that came with creating a leadership system.

[12:26] We have to keep reminding ourselves that for the user, for the principal, trying to navigate their way through a career in school leadership, they only know what they do and they interact with all these partners, and if we all come at them with different agendas and different language, it just makes it harder for them. And so we try to meld those together as much as we can while still honoring the integrity of all those partners and what they bring to the whole thing. And so the relationships have certainly been a challenging part of this. 

Data proves the lasting impact of MLDS on school leadership.

[19:04] Data says that our MLDS principals have retention rates 10 percentage points higher than the state's average and has for every year that it's been in full implementation. 20 percentage points higher than if you're a non-MLDS principal. That data tells me that we're doing something right in terms of [the] longevity of school leadership. As a part of our annual evaluations, we have interviewed teachers. We've interviewed superintendents. And to me, it's important to not only ask the user, "Is this valuable?" but then to ask the people who surround them to say, "Do you see the impact of MLDS on their leadership?" and to have 80 to 90% of teachers say, "Absolutely, I can see a different change in practice that they learn. They bring things that they've learned into our school that supports me, helps me be a better teacher, and, in fact, helps my students learn at higher levels." That tells me something when superintendents say, "I can see my principal turning into a better instructional leader.

Was blended funding the right call for MLDS?

[20:56] We've always attempted to do blended funding because we didn't want the loss of any one source to be the end of all of this work. And at times, like now, that maybe has been a good plan of attack to kind of do it that way. But every piece of funding then comes again with its own limitations and its own uses and whatever, and you have to navigate all of that too. But we've managed to put together, kind of, a blended funding thing. When we first started getting our funding together, we went to the 3% that was allowed through the new national education law, and we did the math, and we picked out about 40 superintendents in the state who would be losing a bigger share of their Title II A funds if we did the 3% set aside. And we went and visited them. And so I sat in the office with a bunch of superintendents, and I said, "If we move ahead with creating this system and we use these funds for that, your district is going to lose this much money, and I want to hear your opinion of that." And every superintendent we talked to said, "Go ahead and do it, but do it right."

Show Links:

• MLDS | Missouri Leadership Development System
• The Educator Growth Toolbox
• Profile on LinkedIn
• Social Profile on X

Mónica and Dan discuss the evolving role of federal involvement in education under the current administration, including themes of reducing federal influence and focusing on leveraging the remaining capacities to advance specific priorities. Their conversation touches on challenges such as preemptive compliance and the importance of separating significant policy changes from media noise. Dan also highlights opportunities for institutions to rethink and recommit to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion initiatives amid policy shifts. The conversation ends on the optimistic point of the power of coalition building and sustained partnerships to protect and advance educational values.

In the Lead with UCEA  is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

What is EducationCounsel and what work does it do?

[02:29] We're a mission-driven education consulting firm. We do early childhood and K-12 and higher ed. My focus tends to be more on the K-12, just given my background. And we do a lot of things. We do some strategy work. We do a lot of connecting of dots and bringing folks together.

Dan Gordon shares their biggest concern with misinterpreted signals and noise and its implications.

[09:53] We worry a lot about what we call preemptive compliance, and I think the biggest risk of the signal and, like, confusing the signal for the noise or not finding the signal in the noise is that the noise is scary and all encompassing and really dramatic. And the concern is that folks, because they're not able to or are struggling to find that signal, instead listen to the noise and it drives them to comply, to change things, to comply with what they think or are being told what the law is, or that the law has suddenly changed to be. And they're complying not when they're forced to because there's been an investigation and/or a court case or something that is really sort of called the question, and instead they're preemptively complying in advance.

Going beyond the headline is key to understanding the right time to comply.

[16:18] If you're not someone who's familiar with the way litigation unfolds, you might see a headline that says, Courts find illegal this thing or courts find legal this thing. And the truth is that a lot of those are early decisions, temporary decisions, preliminary decisions that don't get to the point of a final say about whether something was legal or illegal. And so it's the other way, is that, you know, you also have to make sure that institutional leaders don't see, oh wow, this court temporarily put a hold on this thing, so therefore, you know, it's illegal and I don't have to pay attention to it. Well, and they may have just temporarily done it for the next couple [of] days while they considered full arguments about it. Or maybe they changed it only for the people in that one place in Vermont. And that doesn't apply to us too. So, it goes both ways in terms of whether it's news that you find good because of where you stand or news that you find troubling because of where you stand. It's really important to kind of go behind the headline.      

Show Links:

• Education Counsel | Resources
• Education Counsel | Executive Actions Chart
• Education Counsel Profile
• LinkedIn Profile
• Social Profile on BlueSky
• Social Profile on X

Mónica and Zeke discuss the importance of connecting different role groups and states to share information and best practices in education. They highlight the cyclical nature of educational challenges from past decades, and their conversation emphasizes the need for collaboration and innovation among and across states to address persistent issues more effectively. Tune in to hear how ECS supports leaders in its ‘weaver’ role.

In the Lead with UCEA  is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Zeke discusses some of the most important state & local context factors that shape the work that he does with state policy makers. 

[06:42] We work on every issue under the sun, really. But recently, our steering committee came together and brainstormed a few policy priority areas that we'll be unveiling and working on more as the year goes on. But yeah, so we will primarily focus on those areas and see where we can proactively help states beyond that, you know, we're reacting to state needs, and like you said, the varying state contexts really impact how we're talking to any given state, right? We know that Wyoming maybe cares more about South Dakota or Montana than it does New York or California. You know, we just know that the different levels of funding, the different student populations, the different spread of schools across the state from urban to rural. We know that it all impacts what a state's looking for. And so while we won't advocate for any specific policy or tell states what to do, we'll connect them with other states that have the same populations, have the same type of funding challenges or opportunities, states that are working on the same issues, and we'll try to connect them so that they can work with like states to share the best information and share the approaches that they're all taking and learning from.

Recurring challenges emerging across states.

[11:10] I think one challenge consistent across states is the lack of experience that we've seen in those leadership roles. So, we've seen a study that shows that over 40% of principals working in their current schools have been there for three or fewer years. Right, and so, I think these pipelines help get individuals into school leadership positions earlier so that they can stay there longer and build that experience. But I think another way that we've seen states approach that is providing a lot more professional development and supporting teachers, regardless of experience or the type of school that we're in. I think we've seen that across a few different buckets. We've seen states tackle that broadly. So, for instance, Alabama developedtheir principal leadership development system that provides professional development and other supports to principals in their systems, just generally. We've also seen states look at a more targeted approach for schools and then a targeted approach for subjects. [12:23] So again, just a broad spectrum of how states are providing support to school leaders.

How ECS is weaving connections to make impactful changes

[22:54] One of the areas where we hope to weave states is, you know, they're each working on these different issues and making progress in their own ways and innovating in their own ways, but finding the opportunity to help them find those best practices and work across states and continue to build towards solving these problems that have been on their plates for a short time or  for decades. Just making sure that they can connect and grow and shape the best policy possible.

Show Links:

• In the Lead with UCEA with Mary Erina Driscoll  
• Education Commission of the States Profile   
• LinkedIn Profile

Mónica and Paul discuss Paul’s career focused on K-12 education, federalism, and policy reform. Paul shares his insights on how states act as educational policy actors and his recent work with the Wallace Foundation to support the preparation and development of high-quality principals. Their conversation also delves into the impact of state-level policies, the importance of leadership within education, and how educational institutions can better collaborate for effective policy implementation.

In the Lead with UCEA  is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Engaging elected officials in conversations about supporting education leaders.

[05:41] The good news from the education policy [and] education leadership field is there's a lot of evidence that great principals also make differences in schools and in school districts and in the lives of children. And so, obviously, military leaders and business leaders, their jobs aren't identical to what principals do. There's differences. There's important differences, but some of these broad principles of leadership do cut across these arenas, and so I think having conversations with elected officials that remind them about those other contexts where there's parallels that's, in a way, could be a door opener for them to understand the import of this and why it's worth it to train up people and support people who are leading schools, just like we would want to have great people leading businesses, large or small, or leading troops, or whatever it might be. We need great people leading in schools.

Politicians sometimes gloss over the nuanced differences that exist within educational leadership.

[09:28]  I think even within education there could be a better appreciation for the varieties of leadership roles that there are in education, right. And I think state standards in some place, like, they've started to come around to this that it's not necessarily a great idea to just have general standards for leaders because the principal of the school has a different kind of job than the superintendent of the district, right? Or some other leader, like within a school, a teacher who's maybe a department head within a certain program area, or a leader who leads the assessment, part of a district role, or the nutrition part. Like, these are different roles. And so I think having an appreciation for that difference is important. And sometimes politicians, kind of, gloss over that, because they just think leadership is all the same, you know? But to your point, like, it isn't necessarily, and so helping them understand that maybe what you're expecting out of an assistant principal for licensing doesn't necessarily need to be the same thing as what you would expect out of a principal. And you'd want something even different or more for a superintendent, let's say.

Good policy entrepreneurs know how to communicate with policy makers.

[21:15] If you really have an interest in policy and getting involved in conversations to shape policy, then you should have some element of your work that gets your nose into the weeds of how policy is actually carried out. [21:24] Sometimes the worst impulse of faculty, and everybody's fallen prey to this at some point in their career, is that we think we've got these great ideas and these great answers, and then we show up in a room and we're speaking a language that nobody understands. 

Show Links:

• Developing Excellent School Principals to Advance Teaching and Learning Considerations for State Policy
• Faculty Profile | William & Mary
• LinkedIn Profile
• Paul Manna’s Home Page
• Democracy in Five Minutes Podcast
• Google Scholar Page
• Wallace Foundation Reports
• Social Profile on X
• Social Profile on Bluesky

This season, we will be talking with leaders from some professional organizations and UCEA partners who develop, track, and advocate for educational policy work at the state and national levels. We also learn how we can focus our efforts at the state level to advocate collectively for educational leaders, school communities, and children. Hear from our exciting lineup of guests about how their organizations are working to improve educational leadership across states and contexts. 

Join our conversation. Tune into the first episodes releasing soon and check out our past episodes. Subscribe to In the Lead with UCEA wherever you listen to podcasts.

Mónica and Mark discuss critical consciousness, inclusive pedagogy, and the importance of principal preparation programs, underscoring the necessity of continuous, collaborative partnerships between universities and school districts. Mark shares how Dallas and Houston ISDs demonstrate the benefits of such partnerships, emphasizing leadership supervision, instructional leadership, and pre-service principal preparation. They also address systemic issues, such as transportation inequities affecting Latinx students, advocating for consistent equity-oriented practices and vigilant support for educational leaders at all levels.

Submit your takeaways and/or questions here: forms.gle/qFEL3BMUfJnBdMoP9 

In the Lead with UCEA  is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Having critical consciousness is having an understanding of historical oppression

[08:44] I tend to think about starting this conversation around an interrogation of race, because it is so interwoven into our systems, it's interwoven into our personal ways, our personal mental models or personal paradigms, but also, in our systems paradigms or our collective paradigms. So, we have to start with that critical consciousness of the leader. Like, how do they think about these systems? Do they think about these multiple levels in terms of oppression? And then, if they do, then certainly, they're going to be looking at the school systems, for instance, moving right into instructional leadership. How do they, not necessarily go around and work with their teachers and say, “I'm going to show you how to be culturally responsive,” but we would think that, with a critical consciousness lens, they can go into a classroom and see if there are inequities happening, or if there are students who are not getting access to a curriculum that represents them, if there's a curriculum that doesn't present them in a favorable light, for instance, or at all. So often, right now, we're seeing more with things like the 1619 curriculum coming out on board over the last few years, but so often, complete cultures have been left out. Or oftentimes, they haven't been left out, they’ve been misrepresented.They've been flattened, and so that they're one-dimensional. And so we said, it needs to be that they're supporting cultural-responsive pedagogy. That was very, very important.

The necessity of rich research-practice partnerships to strengthen the comprehensive, aligned principal pipelines.  

[16:01] Some of the districts around the country have started to embrace these research-practice partnerships, right? And when we think about that, Wallace started to strongly encourage these conversations between university prep programs and districts. So, we now can theorize forward a little bit more about equity is in there, and it's, sort of, woven in between, and those folks who are hiring and selecting principals, school districts, are now looking back and saying to the university prep program, “Yes, we want the equity piece. We want to know how you're doing it,” but then I'll go a step further and say, the people that I started with, the supervisors of those principals, now have a, kind of, three-way conversation and a piece there that we can get excited about because it's more connected, it's fertile ground for, really, creating a rich research-practice partnership. And it's also something that we can have equity really nicely interwoven throughout. So, that was something that we were excited about. I mean, we didn't articulate that as well as I've just said, because obviously, I've had a couple of years since, but, obviously, one of the things that we were saying really pushed that thought directly forward to say, this is what should be in there and this is how we should be thinking about it.

Is there a leveraging point to impact the whole pipeline?

[22:32] I think high-quality principal preparation seems to be the biggest one if it is tightly connected to the other ones. I think we have to move away from that independent thing, because I think if you have high-quality principal preparation and you have a weak set of standards, it's going to be hard for our colleagues who are less comfortable doing this work to look at standards and see how can I be more equity-focused? It doesn't even say that in the standards, right? And even if it does, it's still like, “That's probably not speaking to me.” So, it has to be tightly connected. 

Show Links:

• A Culturally Responsive School Leadership Approach to Developing Equity-Centered Principals

Guest Profile:

• GoodenPhD.com
• Faculty Profile at Teachers College, Columbia University
• LinkedIn Profile
• Social Profile on X

With over 30 years of experience in policy research, Marjorie details the genesis and key findings of a report sponsored by the Wallace Foundation that explores features of effective principal preparation, access to learning opportunities, and the role of policy at the state and local levels. Marjorie emphasizes the importance of applied learning, mentorship, and district partnerships in shaping competent school leaders who can drive student success.

Submit your takeaways and/or questions here: forms.gle/qFEL3BMUfJnBdMoP9 

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Having cohorts and networks can reduce the isolation that many principals face.

[12:06] Being a principal is not an easy job. Having someone to say, “You've got this. Yes, you struggled on that, but look at how well you did on that.” And just providing alternative perspectives. In the same way that mentors and experts are important, so is just having a cohort of other principals. Being in a cohort and in a principal preparation program or having a network of principals can really help principal learning, having professionals learn and grow together. Having a space to ask questions, admit challenges, learn from others who might have been through whatever it is that you're facing, [and] try out ideas, and also, cohorts. Particularly, for practicing principals, cohorts and networks can reduce that isolation that many principals may face.

Why having a good relationship between preparation programs and the district is very important.

[14:39] Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez: In order to have authentic experiences in a preparation program, you have to have an authentic relationship with the district. And it needs to be in alignment in what is a high-quality learning opportunity, as well as what is high-quality practice. And so, it makes a lot of sense that you have to align the program, the relationships, and the opportunities in order for aspiring principals to go through a really enriching experience. I think that's really important. And I think, as a result of that, we saw a lot more district partnerships, some district preparation research, partnerships with districts. But the heightened need and understanding of and to use your language, we're still in the same ecosystem here, right? So, we need to be in communication with each other.

[15:26] Marjorie Wechsler : Yeah. Absolutely. And also, having those strong relationships allows the districts to know that the principals who are coming out of these programs understand the district and it allows them to say, “Hey, this is really important. Here are our students. And we have found that our most successful principals know these areas very well.” So, both the district and the programs share an investment, a motivation for developing these principles as well as they can be developed.

Marjorie talks about some of the recommendations coming out of the research

[22:53]: Having paid internships or residencies can open up really good learning opportunities

for some of the most promising candidates, and not just those who can afford a program. This is just one of several examples, but North Carolina has a state Principal Fellows Program, which provides scholarships to individuals who are looking to get their master's degree in school administration and work as a North Carolina public schools. The first year, they get a stipend, which pays for tuition and books and living expenses while they can study full time. And then the second year, they receive the salary of a first-year assistant principal, as well as an educational stipend, so they can do that full-year internship, they can afford it, working under the mentorship of a veteran principal. And in return, they work four years in a North Carolina public school. So it's win-win: high-quality preparation, and then the public schools have this well-developed principal.

Show Links:

Recommended Resources:

• Developing Effective Principals: What Kind of Learning Matters?

Guest Profile:

• Profile at Learning Policy Institute

They discuss the increasing number of AP roles and the growing complexity of their roles in educational leadership. Ellen explores the shift from their traditional image as disciplinarian to their important roles in community building and leadership development. The discussion also delves into disparities in career advancement for assistant principals, particularly among educators of color and women, and underscores the importance of mentorship and equitable opportunities for leadership progression. 

Submit your takeaways and/or questions here: forms.gle/qFEL3BMUfJnBdMoP9 

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Data uncovers the dramatic increase of assistant principals, expanding sixfold compared to principals.

I think the first thing that was just really, really surprising, and we had no idea using national data was the extent to which the number of APs has increased over time.  I don't think anyone anticipated that, or certainly we didn't. So the first thing that we found is, Wow, this is a role that's being implemented in schools more and more, and in fact, we estimated that the APs have grown more than six times as fast as the number of principals, from 1990 up to 2015. 

Has the role of assistant principals changed over time?

09:36 The literature review suggests that [the roles has] probably overemphasized that assistant principals do student discipline, because as we know, student discipline doesn't happen in a vacuum. And I think, in many ways, it is much more related to the instruction of the teacher and how the teacher is being mentored and supported to engage students in teaching and learning and how the students are being addressed in the classroom. So, separating out student discipline as separate from mentoring of teaching and coaching of teaching is a little problematic. One of the things we talk about a lot in the report is, how are we conceptualizing roles? And how do we think about roles when there's so much interconnection in practice? And we might want to think about this a little bit differently.

The misalignment of feedback and evaluation for assistant principals.

19:47 Most states evaluate assistant principals on the same rubric as principals, and how that's handled is very variable. Some districts say, “Well, if you're assistant principals, you can't be exemplary because that's only for principals.” So you're starting out and you get to a certain threshold. Others include the assistant principal in the principal's overall school evaluation. It depends on the rubric. And what is often the case, though, in both of these scenarios is how misaligned  feedback and evaluation is for assistant principals to the work that they're actually doing. So, why am I bringing that up now? I think there's also very few states, and we talked about this in the report, that have differential licensing and differential certification processes. A few do. We have no research on whether these differential certification processes or licensees somehow bring a different outcome or more people into the profession or it's developmental approach. That's a whole area that needs work. But what I think is important is that we consider the unique roles and responsibilities that assistant principals do that are distinct from principals, and this gets into the pipeline work.

Show Links:

Recommended Resources:

• The Role of Assistant Principals

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at Peabody College of Education and Human Development at Vanderbilt University

Jason discusses how his research underscores the significant impact of principals on student learning outcomes and educational equity. Their discussion also delves into the importance of an equity lens in school leadership, essential skills for principals, and the future directions for research in this field.

Submit your takeaways and/or questions here: forms.gle/qFEL3BMUfJnBdMoP9 

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Four key behaviors of effective principals according to the research

[05:09] We spent months and months culling through these studies and trying to come up with what were the studies that we could really lean on in terms of making that connection and what could we learn from them about. Those domains of behavior that seemed to be linked most clearly to better outcomes for kids. And so we identified four of those. And so we call those engaging and instructionally focused interactions with teachers, building a productive climate, facilitating collaboration and professional learning community, and managing personnel and resources strategically.

The equity lens opens an opportunity for self-reflection

[11:37] The equity lens idea is the idea that principals should be driving their schools towards more equitable outcomes for marginalized and non-marginalized students in their schools, which means that their work in these 4 domains of practice have to reflect that priority. And we liked the metaphor of the lens because it emphasizes a perspective on the broader work. So, as a principal, I'm working to build a productive climate for my building. But that means a productive climate for all kids, right? Regardless of background. So, how am I ensuring that students, regardless of who they are and what they come to school with and what their identity characteristics are and so forth, how are all of those kids experiencing those levels of trust and care and self efficacy, you know, those goals that I have for a productive climate? And so that's the lens idea. So I'm all kids in mind, climate is not just the typical kid or the average kid or the kid who I see the most often. It's a productive climate for kids regardless of their background.

Leadership expectations are often set beyond realistic human capabilities.

[16:20] I think a challenge we have in the field of educational leadership is that the standards that we set for what we expect of school leaders is very high. Sometimes I think we're expecting superhumans, not real humans. And if standards are aspirational, right? And some part of what you do when you write down a standard is you're giving a person something to aspire to. And I think that's important. I do think, though, that when you're having to train and prepare on so many different dimensions at once, that it can lead that preparation for the candidate even to feel unfocused. Like, there's so much I have to learn and I don't understand on what timeline I need each one of these things. And so, what I hope our results can do bring a little bit of focus to where we can start as we're trying to provide people with a set of skills and capacities that they need to enter leadership. And be as successful as they can be right at the beginning of the career.

Show Links:

Recommended Resources

• How Principals Affect Students and Schools

Guest Profile:

• JasonGrissom.com
• Faculty Profile at Vanderbilt
• Social Profile on X
• Google Scholar Page  

The discussion explores the initiative's impact on educational leadership and practices, the critical role of community and university partnerships, and the unique, context-specific approaches to defining and implementing equity in education. Rotunda also shares insights into the continuous improvement processes and upcoming research findings that are expected in the future.

Submit your takeaways and/or questions here: forms.gle/qFEL3BMUfJnBdMoP9 

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

How ECPI districts and their university partners ensure high-quality, equity-centered principal preparation programs.

12:36: [Mónica Byrne-Jiménez] How are the ECPI districts working with their university partners to make sure that their principal preparation is high-quality, equity-centered, and, sort of, building on strengths of the community?

12:52: [Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] Yeah, that’s a great question. What's been fantastic to see in these partnerships with districts and these institutions of higher education is, just as we know that the districts want pools of principal candidates who are well-prepared to meet the real-world demands of the role. We also know that the university partners strive to offer the highest quality and most relevant principal preparation programs to attract candidates and to meet the needs of the districts that they serve. That's the reason that the partnerships between the universities and the local school communities are so essential. Each district is either developing or revising leader standards and then working closely with their university partners to ensure that those standards will guide the pre-service work and preparation that the university partner offers. And in some cases, for example, in Columbus City Schools, in partnership with the Ohio State University, there's even collaboration on the development and support of in-service principals. These partnerships, in some cases, even result in more strategic approaches to preparation for assistant principals within the district.

The Wallace Foundation recognizes each district’s unique definition of equity.

07:59: [Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] While we do, at Wallace, think about equity in a very specific way, The Wallace Foundation is not imposing a singular definition of equity on the districts that we are partnering with. Each district has actually defined its own vision for equity with input from the community. And they are designing their pipelines with the vision for equity embedded that they have collaborated with their communities around. And what's really exciting about the work is that, in partnership with the stakeholders that I mentioned previously, they are iterating on what they learn over time about the needs of principals, along with the interests of their communities, and they leverage the deep knowledge of some of the other partners, like state agencies, as well as members of higher ed communities, to engage in this continuous improvement process.

08:51: [Mónica Byrne-Jiménez] And just hearing you say that now also makes me think that, actually, part of the approach, if that's the right word of the foundation, is to recognize that issues of equity have to be locally driven. And so, that's actually part of the equity definition, right? It's not something that can't be imposed, but rather locally driven, locally addressed in local leadership.

[Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] Yeah. I think that's a fantastic point.

Rotunda shares insights and hopes for sustaining Wallace leadership initiatives

19:10 Through a series of independent research studies, we're hoping to learn whether large districts, in partnership with all of the stakeholders that we've spent this time talking about, can create principal pipelines that are capable of producing and supporting leaders who can advance equity within their districts. We're also hoping, though, to be able to understand how local history and district culture shape approaches to equity. And more specifically, the researchers who are engaged in this component of a study will be able to document the cultural, historical, and organizational factors that district partnership teams have to grapple with as they develop visions, goals, and plans for equity-centered principal pipelines.

Show Links:

Recommended Resources:

• ​​​​Equity-Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI)

Guest Profile:

• Wallace Foundation Profile
• LinkedIn

She also shares insights into the foundation's current initiatives, such as developing equity-centered leaders in education and supporting arts organizations founded by communities of color. Mónica and Bronwyn explore the interconnectivity of these focus areas and the strategies adopted by the foundation to innovate and document impactful change. Bronwyn also reflects on her own professional background and how it has influenced her work at the foundation.

Submit your takeaways and/or questions here: forms.gle/qFEL3BMUfJnBdMoP9 

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Dr. Bronwyn Bevan reflects on her professional background and how it has influenced her work at the foundation

I think, in my role, although all of our work is done collaboratively, of course, we all bring our own, sort of, experience and expertise to the conversation. And I think we're really trying to think differently about what kinds of research approaches are most suited for the kinds of questions that we're asking. We've moved, especially in the art space, but in other places as well, moved into more of an exploratory mode. So, it's not necessarily always hypothesis testing and those kinds of studies. Sometimes, that is what we're doing. But so, I think, it's just bringing a broader approach. I also have a background and have an edited book that I wrote with Bill Penuel on research-practice partnerships. And so, just thinking about how research and practice are intertwined can benefit one another, not putting up firewalls, thinking about evidence-based decision-making, and also, really paying attention to when the context just means that things have to be done differently than what research might say at that moment is the thing. So, bringing, maybe, that nuance to the conversation is one of the ways I think I can, I'm trying to make a contribution here.

The Wallace Foundation intends to make a broader impact through its philanthropic strategy. 

[Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez] 07:16: The foundation has a real commitment to a specific kind of approach that guides the work that you do with communities, that guides the research. And so, if you could explain a little bit about that.

[Dr. Bronwyn Bevan] 07:28: Yeah. We call it our philanthropic strategy. Basically, we're a midsize foundation, so it's part of an effort to make a greater contribution with, sort of, the limited funds that we have. The basic idea is that, in each of these three areas where we have these long-term sustained conversations and sets of colleagues out in the field that are both organizations doing the work and also professional associations supporting the work that school districts are doing, our youth development programs or the arts are doing, we stay in dialogue with them. We also stay in touch with the research and reference research, and essentially, through that dialogue and conversation, identify key pressing problems of practice, and from there, essentially, identify or invite — and sometimes these are through open calls and sometimes they're through conversations — other districts, other organizations that have a shared interest in that problem.

Dr. Brevan shares some of the important questions that can move our understanding on school leadership, educational leadership, and community building.

[Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez]: What do you think are the next set of important questions that can move our understanding of school leadership, educational leadership, community building, and strengthening forward?

[Dr. Bronwyn Bevan]: One of the things Wallace… pretty much across the board, certainly, in ed leadership and in youth development, is really think about the system level of things. I mean, in part, the arts ecosystem is just a little more complicated than, you know, not oftentimes, like, school districts or after-school networks. And we think about what kind of levers for change exist in the system. And one of the things we've been observing, first of all, in ECPI (​​​​Equity-Centered Pipeline Initiative), to some degree, and also in other places, is we had funded a number of years ago, or, like, three years ago, Learning Policy Institute, Linda Darling-Hammond and Marjorie Wechsler and their colleagues produced a study report looking at professional preparation and learning, you know, finding that there's just not a lot on professional development for sitting principals. And their report surfaced a number of questions about that. And we're seeing that play out, obviously there's a lot of support in the induction years, but what kinds of support are important when in a career? What kind of context? Those kinds of things are questions we're thinking about.

Show Links:

Recommended Resources:

• Connecting Research and Practice for Educational Improvement: Ethical and Equitable Approaches
• University Principal Preparation Initiative (UPPI)
• ​​​​Equity-Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI)

Guest Profile:

• Wallace Foundation Profile
• LinkedIn   
• ResearchGate Page
• Google Scholar Page

Leadership in education is a complex dance of balancing resources, advocacy, and communication. Drawing from her extensive experience as a dean and provost, Mary offers invaluable insights into the dynamics of leadership and partnership within higher education and its interplay with K-12 education. This episode is packed with practical advice and reflections. Listen in and gain a deeper understanding of the challenges and rewards of educational leadership and policy, all while celebrating the rich history and ongoing impact of UCEA.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Discussing the challenges within the higher education

When I went to City College, which is a great place, but, interesting in terms of the politics, and people would say to me, "Well, you're in leadership," and especially when I went into the provost position, "What books have you read?” And I said, "Wolf Hall." And the reason I said that is because Thomas Cromwell, who's a very difficult character in that, not anybody that you would want to necessarily emulate in terms of his particular values but one of the leadership behaviors he engages in is he looks at the people that he's working with, and he tries to figure out in a given situation what is it that they want, what is it that's important to them, not what would he want if he were in that situation. And it's amazing when you look at some leaders. They can't make that shift. And I think, as a dean of education, or as a professor that was working in partnership when I was at NYU, again, with my colleagues with districts, it was very important to say, "What's important to the people that I'm working with in K-12? What are they looking for out of this relationship? And what can we provide there, not what makes sense for us to do?" 

On being vocal about the value and importance of education

It is important for our scholarly community to be vocal about the value and importance of education, period, and increasingly higher education. It's not just because it's our bread and butter. We, sort of, self-select into it because we like it or we see its value or whatever, but in most cases, it's an exceptional case where that's driven by, boy, this is a great economic place to be in. I mean, how many of our professors are teaching either master's students or doctoral students that are making two, three times their salaries as district administrators. They deserve it, but I think we have to talk about, so, what is it that this community allows us to do? What are the benefits, not just to us personally, but benefits that accrue in helping to elevate the scholar practitioner within that K-12 community? We don't do a great job of supporting people once they finish their degrees, right? We're, sort of, not set up to do that. When we're able to bring together policy makers, scholar practitioners, professors, graduate students into one space, it can be really extraordinary.

One of the greatest things UCEA has done as a guild organization

One of the things that UCEA has done as a guild organization, which I think is great, is provide opportunities for you to work with other people on joint projects. And even smart people have to learn how to do that well. As director, you have to learn how to work with an executive committee. You have to learn how to work with a board. You have to learn how to deal with the plenum. If you're reviewing something, you have to understand what does a good review look like? What's actually going to be helpful for somebody? If you're doing a joint project or planning a program, how do you get as many voices at the table as you can and have a coherent message? And how do you articulate that? And how do you defend it? And how do you listen to what people think about it? I mean, they're good life skills.

Show Links:

• Faculty Profile at Regis College
• LinkedIn Profile

Paula and Mónica dissect the profound impact of global partnerships, the significance of study tours, and how these experiences have the power to improve our understanding of our domestic education systems. Paula also reflects on what she thinks UCEA’s role will be in this field going forward into the future. Paula’s insights shed light on the importance of cultural understanding and the transformative power of international collaboration in shaping the educational leaders of both today and tomorrow.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

On exploring how knowledge generation has evolved over time

Phil Hallinger, I remember this distinctly. It was the late 1990s. Hallinger said to me, "Yeah, I'm going to Thailand." And I said, "Well, how can you possibly be a professor at Vanderbilt and also be a professor at Chulalongkorn University in Thailand?" And he did it. And that was the day that I said to myself, "I don't have to make my international interests tangential. I can put them in the core of my work because other professors are doing it." And by the way, I have to add, you know, Vanderbilt's a private university. UConn, public. It was harder. I get to USD. It's a lot easier to internationalize in the privates. It just is because we tend to be smaller with interdisciplinary work being supported and incentivized.

This is what Paula strongly believes in

A person who knows only one educational system knows no educational system. And it's when you're visiting schools, engaging in deep conversations with educators and policy makers in those nations, where you're exploring different practices. I learned about the practice of looping teachers in grades when I lived and worked in Venezuela. I thought it was so strange that a teacher, an elementary school teacher, moved from first to second to third grade with her students, and then would rotate back. When I came back to the U.S. and talked about that, you know, people were like, "What are you talking about? That's absurd." Well, fast forward… lots of school districts have adopted looping policies. Some of John Hattie's work looked at the impact of looping policies.

Finding her community in UCEA

As a new professor, I found my tribe. I found people who were passionate about school leadership. And it didn't matter if it wasn't international or not. They were just passionate about school leadership. So, that was key. And I think the other part was, you know, I was, I think, maybe about 38 when I became president. Somewhere around there. And it just gave me confidence being in the plenum, representing UConn there. And then sitting on the UCEA leadership group and being president just gave me confidence that I didn't have. And I felt respected by my colleagues. And I liked my colleagues. And I see UCEA doing that. I have several graduates that are UCEA faculty members from institutions that are UCEA members. And that's what UCEA does for them.

Show Links:

• Faculty Profile at the University of San Diego
• LinkedIn Profile
• Amazon Author Page

Mónica and Gerardo tackle the impact of the pandemic on disrupted research methodologies, highlighting the critical pivot our leadership must make to thrive in a world forever changed. Gerardo explains the essence of 'Fourth Wave Leadership', a philosophy he champions as critical for steering through the complexities of our interwoven global existence. This episode casts a spotlight on the necessity for systemic, holistic leadership that can pivot with challenges. Join us in this commemorative episode that not only honors UCEA's storied past but also forges a path for the future of educational leadership.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM

Episode Quotes:

The essence of ‘Fourth Wave’ leadership

I do think that we're in this, kind of, fourth wave, if you will, this, kind of, apertura, this fourth wave of us, you know, like, that I don't know what it's called yet, but it really is about, like, leadership for, like, an interconnected world that is dealing with the unpredictable, that deals with things that are more complex, challenges that are more complex. And I think we're also, kind of, like, re-examining things where I think, whereas, in the past, we used to want to opt for things that had, like, facile solutions to really complex problems. Now, we're really trying to deal with the complexity of these problems, right? And so, I do think that it's leadership that thinks deeply about some of these issues. And really, you know, that in order for them to solve them, it's going to require a different type of thinking. It's going to require much more systemic, much more holistic thinking, much more innovative and creative solutions in order for us to solve some of these perennial problems that are plaguing education.

How the pandemic isolated the UCEA community & the scholars

I think that lots of things changed during the pandemic. And, you know, and having to work in isolation, research opportunities were lost because we couldn't collect data in the traditional ways that we did, especially if you were doing qualitative research. We couldn't go out and do interviews. We were disconnected from our colleagues. So, there was this, kind of, loss of colleagueship and having to work in a different space. There was loss of learning that students were experiencing with. And of course, that's the one we're most familiar with. But I think that we were forcing ourselves to deal with loss on so many multiple levels and loss that was compounded by the issue of isolation. And so, I think what ended up happening with the pandemic is that it really taught us the importance of and the need for connection

Even the field wasn’t prepared for the pandemic 

I think the pandemic taught us so many different things. I think it taught us that we were largely unprepared for things like crises, when crises happen — not just unprepared as individuals, but unprepared, I think, as a field. And you think about, like, how did we as a community, how do we as scholars, how do we as academics prepare our administrators. How do we prepare our future principals? How do we prepare our leaders for that? I mean, I think that there was not, really, a lot of work that's been done on how to do that kind of work. And so, I think we were all learning. Practitioners were trying to learn. As administrators, as a field, as professors, I think we were also trying to, kind of, figure it out.

Show Links:

• Faculty Profile at Michigan State University College of Education
• Gerardo López Google Scholar Page

Michael dives into his focus on the spiritual component of leadership and expounds on these ideas more in his book, Leading with a Critical Spirit: New Strategies for Educational Leaders. Michael and Mónica also look ahead to the exciting potential brought forth by emerging scholars in the field. This is not just a retrospective—it's a glimpse into the future fabric of educational leadership. Don’t miss this excellent conversation.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Bringing a fresh perspective on educational leadership & UCEA’s impactful contribution

We began to present at UCEA. And there were persons who, you know, still had great allegiance to the way we had been thinking about leadership, who were pushing, you know, and saying, this whole notion of social justice that we were talking about and looking at issues of race and gender and social aspects of leadership, they were like, “No, we don't need to do that, because leadership is leadership, period. That’s something that you guys are trying to put into the field that's not necessary.” So, there was real honest-to-goodness pushback on folks. But we continued to fight by making these presentations at UCEA at the annual conference. Some of us — a lot of us — got elected to be representatives for our organization, for our institution. And so, UCEA then became, really, a space where our ideas could at least gain some footing.

What Michael discovered about the role of spirituality in leadership

One of the areas that I really have enjoyed exploring has been leadership and spirituality. And so, I really did begin to ask a question about, how does one's spirit… one's spiritual acumen, if you will, how does that impact leadership? And so, I did a study of principles through the snowball effect. And I came up with five or six principals across the country who claim that their spirituality impacted the way that they lead.

I looked at some principals in Michigan, in Louisiana, and here in Ohio. And you're right. As I explored those interviews, I went to those places and those observations. I thought, yeah, this is true. These people's spirituality is really playing a major role in how they lead their schools.

The endless possibilities UCEA has given Michael Dantley

I think the camaraderie and the companionship of other scholars in educational leadership was one of the real benefits of UCEA. UCEA gave me opportunities to lead in ways that I had not even dreamed of. I had never thought of being the president of UCEA. I never thought that could be, you know, would be possible. I was editor for JCEL, and, you know, I didn't think I would ever be an editor of a journal. And so, it has given me space. It's given me space to share my thoughts. It's given me space to be a leader. And it's given me space to see other young people come to the fore. That's been a real joy of mine.

Passing the torch: Young scholars pursue deeper questions in UCEA's academic landscape

I was thinking about some of the young scholars that I remember presenting with at UCEA and just excited about what they're doing now, you know. And some of them, I was able to see at AERA this past week. And honestly, I don't want to sound paternalistic but I was very proud of these young scholars who have really made phenomenal contributions to our field. And it gave me great, great pleasure to see even younger scholars coming up to them and thanking them for their work. And then they introduced me to them and say, “Well, this is Dr. Dantley, and he da, da, da, da,” all that stuff. But I mean, it's just passing the torch, you know. It's just moving on and on. And that, I was really excited about that.

Show Links:

• Leading with a Critical Spirit: New Strategies for Educational Leaders
• Michael Dantley LinkedIn 

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Broadening UCEA’s reach through conventions

06:20: Annual conventions are very important, as far as the development of our field. Really, Mónica, prior to the '80s, UCEA’s reach was not that broad. It didn't impact those that weren't at UCEA programs. And even those programs, the PSR was involved, but maybe some of the faculty didn't know much about what UCEA was doing.

And it's interesting now, I know Gerardo said, the lore is… Jay Scribner and I were sitting in a room, and I said, “Hey, let's start UCEA conferences.” I don't have any recollection of that particular conversation. Well, I do remember talking with Pat Forsythe and the executive committee and saying, “Let's think about how we can broaden the reach and conferences will be one way we could do that.”

The interrelationship between the development of the field and the development of UCEA

10:33 UCEA has really been important at every stage of the development of the field itself. And if you look at the national commission that I mentioned, UCEA was very much involved in that. And Dan Griffiths was completely committed to UCEA, and he was the chair of that group.

But in subsequent things, the shift, and some of these shifts have been more gradual, but the shift to focusing on equity and social justice, UCEA has played a critical role there. The Jackson Scholars, I know in the studies we did of the professoriate, and I'd be glad to talk more about them, we saw an increase in the minority representation. But my guess is that last study we did was in 2008, that it's much higher now.

How Female Representation in Faculty Has Shifted

12:55 One of the major differences are female representation. And there was 2% of the faculty, literally, I was just saying we can meet in a phone booth when I entered the deal, and that was true. But we had four female faculty members already. We truly could meet in a phone booth. But 2% of the faculty were women in ‘72. And then by ‘08, almost at parity. And my guess is now probably more of the faculty are women than men. So, that was huge. And in some of those studies, women were more oriented towards social justice and equity, issues that, by the ‘08 study, the differences in attitudes was not nearly as significant as it had been in the earlier studies

Show Links:

• Martha McCarthy LMU Profile

In this podcast, UCEA presents pivotal conversations with people making an impact on educational leadership, preparation, practice, and policy. Learn about the latest happenings and cutting-edge research from UCEA community of scholars.

Check out our previous season on the University Principal Preparation Initiative and stay tuned for new episodes and interviews every other week celebrating UCEA's 70th anniversary and exploring insights with some of UCEA's past presidents. 

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

On this episode of In the Lead with UCEA’s podcast series on the University Principal Preparation Initiative (UPPI), UCEA Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Susan Gates, a senior economist at RAND who applies economic theory and methods to help policymakers identify effective practices and make better decisions on a wide range of topics.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

The importance of understanding the principal preparation

09:54: Another surprise was to see the development of models for universities to collaborate with districts other than the state's large urban school districts. One of the challenges we've observed through our earlier research in this space of principal preparation is that everybody understands that principal preparation relies on access to authentic learning environments in schools and districts. And that these principals are being prepared to work in school districts. Therefore, universities need to partner with school districts to stay up-to-date on what's going on in the school districts and what it means to be a principal today to provide those hands-on learning opportunities.

On changing the traditional principal selection criteria

13:36: The UPPI programs all shifted their selection criteria to rely more heavily on district input and focused explicitly on whether, based on a person's work in the district, they were a good candidate for a principal preparation program at this time. So, it was less academic and based on things like test scores and grades and more oriented toward the authentic work of a principal and a person's ability to succeed not only in an academic program but also on the job as a principal.

On navigating trust and roles 

04:09: One challenge from a research perspective was just building that trust: What would we be documenting? What would we be saying? Another challenge that I hadn't really run up against in prior research studies, which in the education field had typically focused on efforts within school districts because this initiative was bringing representatives from universities and specifically university faculty to the table; they are researchers. And so they wanted to be involved in the research. I was sort of like, "Well, wait a minute, we're the researchers here." So, I would say that was one of the biggest unexpected challenges that we had to navigate as we went along.

Show Links:

• Professional Profile at RAND
• Susan Gates Publications
• LinkedIn Profile
• ResearchGate Page 

On this episode of In the Lead with UCEA’s podcast series on the University Principal Preparation Initiative (UPPI), UCEA Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Shelby Cosner, Professor of Educational Organization and Leadership in the Department of Educational Policy Studies and the Director of the UIC Center for Urban Education Leadership (CUEL).  

In the Lead with UCEA is a production of University FM via a grant from The Wallace Foundation.

Chapter Timestamps:

• UIC’s History of Program Improvement | 1:11
• Developing a Cycle of Inquiry | 4:42
• Attitudes and Relationships Evolving Over Time | 12:22
• Guiding Other Programs Through Redesigns | 18:12
• Navigating the Bigger Picture | 26:15
• Mentor Programs and Mentor Coaches | 29:06
• Summary & Closing | 32:12

Episode Quotes:

On mentoring for growth through data use

10:44: As the process went along, my mentoring role, in particular, leaned heavily into teaching about impact logics, teaching about the kinds of data that you would need to collect, and helping them to actually design data collection instruments and collect those data, teaching them about a cycle of inquiry and guiding them through the cycle.

On leveraging cycles of inquiry

When I can start to see something that's an opportunity, oftentimes, it allows me to step back for a moment, and even a day or two or three, to really think about, what would be the really powerful inquiry questions that will allow somebody to ponder this in a way that I'm pondering it on my own right now?

Show Links:

• UIC Homepage
• Center for Urban Education Leadership Homepage
• Faculty Profile at UIC
• Profile at the Center for Urban Education Leadership  
• LinkedIn Profile

On this episode of In the Lead with UCEA’s podcast series on the University Principal Preparation Initiative (UPPI), UCEA Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Bonnie Fusarelli, Professor of Educational Leadership and Educational Evaluation and Policy Analysis at NC State University and Director of NC State’s Leadership Academies.  

In the Lead with UCEA is a production of University FM via a grant from The Wallace Foundation.

Chapter Timestamps:

• How did NC State decide to pursue this initiative? | 1:13
• NC State’s process of defining Equity and Diversity | 2:02
• Diversity, Equity, and NC State’s Legacy | 6:34
• Making Partners True Equals | 7:48
• The Impact of this Equity work | 10:46
• Creating Safe Spaces to Grow Together | 15:06
• Changes in District Partners | 17:34
• How Have the Conversations Evolved? | 19:19
• Summary & Closing | 22:03

Episode Quotes:

Reflecting on district partners' changes from the integrated learning approach in the redesign

07:08: We saw a lot of our district partners start to have more courage to engage in those conversations publicly. One of our proudest examples is Edgecombe County, where they did an entire process where they brought together the community about what do we want for our kids. Let's talk about how racism and all the other isms have impacted their ability to learn at high quality. And they've just done some amazing work to build community and practice.

Humility helped develop a shared definition of equity and diversity

15:19: We all have bias, but it's about seeing how our bias impacts other people and hurts other people and how can we tap that down and exchange that for ways that we're building up people. And I think really the main way we've done that is really focusing on humility. And so, we are open to the idea that we're all flawed people. And so by focusing on that instead of perfection, that really helps us to recruit the right kind of students.

Building a culture of teamwork in education

20:09: We work together. Our team was willing to say, "I'm not just teaching my course. I'm a part of this program." And you heard me call them team because we don't refer to our faculty, or I don't think my friends do either, that I work with. We don't go, "Oh, we're the faculty." We say we're the team with educational leadership. And I think by viewing that as teamwork, we really have been able to take it from coursework to program.

Show Links:

• Bonnie Fusarelli Faculty Profile at NC State
• Bonnie Fusarelli Profile on LinkedIn

How did SDSU iterate their programs to create effective and sustainable school leaders? How did the five types of thinking mindsets and leadership dispositions play a vital role in building a sustainable framework and capacity?

In the Lead with UCEA is a production of University FM via a grant from The Wallace Foundation.

Chapter Timestamps:

• How did SDSU decide to pursue this initiative? | 1:15
• Sustaining momentum in redesign work | 5:45
• The importance of shared vision in the process | 9:42
• Making redesign part of the culture of the program | 12:39
• The challenges around sustainability | 14:24
• Effective practices to help leaders be responsive | 19:13
• Creating an adaptable program for a changing world | 22:15
• Summary & Closing | 25:30

Episode Quotes:

On the importance of preparing leaders for the redesigning process

18:10: We need to prepare our leaders for that perseverance. It's not easy. It's not easy being a teacher. We don't do this job just for ourselves. We do it because we believe that there's much we can offer our communities. And,so, I think that's key in helping not to change the narrative but to be a part of the narrative.

The value of shared vision

10:21: When we talked about equity, we came to our partners and said, What is your equity statement? What is your district's equity statement? And how does our program reflect that? And in our definition of equity, we were able to create a more holistic and comprehensive definition around five types of thinking that a leader needs to have: data-driven, school climate, achievement, systems, thinking, and learnership. So, we are able to identify thinking mindsets that we want to incorporate in our courses to highlight the type of thinking that leaders should be able to practice.

Sustainability is critical, and enrollment numbers are key

08:57: When thinking about sustainability, enrollment numbers are critical in order to sustain the program. And so we're able to leverage that high need or area of interest to say, okay, we're not only preparing leaders within our realm, but we're also preparing leaders serving very similar demographics across the state or leaders who are very much in tune with what we believe is required to prepare an effective leader, an equity-driven leader, essentially.

Show Links:

• Alejandro Gonzalez Ojeda Faculty Profile at SDSU
• Alejandro Gonzalez Ojeda Profile on LinkedIn

How did FAU coordinate and evolve partnerships with some of Florida’s largest school districts? And how are they revolutionizing their curriculum and internship programs?

In the Lead with UCEA is a production of University FM via a grant from The Wallace Foundation.

Chapter Timestamps:

• How did FAU pursue this initiative? | 0:55
• Relationships with other school districts | 2:03
• How did the faculty make power sharing easier? | 9:33
• Evolving the partnerships with other districts | 13:17
• The lasting impacts of this process | 16:45
• Summary & Closing | 22:13

Episode Quotes:

On creating deep institutional approach to partnerships

07:08: This idea of being equal partners and working together towards that common goal is something that's extremely difficult to do, but it's also something very rewarding, and I say difficult because these are two organizations that are very different. The culture within each of these organizations is very different. And so you have to create some really strong personal relationships across the university, the district, and back to really make the partnership work.

How did the partnership and relationships between districts evolve over the course of the redesign effort?

15:19: Bringing the three districts to the table was really insightful. For the leadership development across all three districts, they started communicating and learning from each other. They're in the same state, and in our state, they all run off the same standards. They all run off the same evaluation platforms, and they basically have the same instructional leadership needs. These districts are very similar in terms of their demographics as well. So, all of a sudden, they were talking to each other, and we were the medium by which they were actually communicating and getting the research scholarship, perhaps even calling it an outside observation of what it was that they were doing. And so this really helped, in terms of strengthening those other partnerships and connecting them much more to the work of each other and to the work of the university.

An important fact that we need to take into account when entering into partnerships

17:04: Universities are a huge font of not only knowledge but applicable professional learning that they can use not only for a partnership program but that they can use for other professional learning that they do with ed leaders in their district.

Show Links:

• Daniel Reyes-Guerra Faculty Profile at FAU
• Daniel Reyes-Guerra Profile on LinkedIn

How did faculty at UConn decide that it was time to redesign their program? And how did faculty work together to grow trust and strengthen their relationships in order to create an innovative program?

In the Lead with UCEA is a production of University FM via a grant from The Wallace Foundation.

Chapter Timestamps:

• Introductions | 0:00
• How did UCONN pursue this initiative? | 0:49
• How does the faculty work to overcome challenges? | 5:32
• Faculty taking leadership during a redesign effort | 10:51
• Shaping an emphasis on equity | 17:26
• The lasting impacts of this process | 21:26
• Summary & Closing | 24:42

Episode Quotes:

How students are playing active role in shared governance

22:50: With the assistance of our students, who now play an active role in shared governance, which was not true prior to UPPI, we realized that they were missing a voice that we wanted to include going forward. With their assistance, and with the assistance and support of the faculty, we are going to change our program of study again and prioritize things like self-care and work-life balance, not just topics, but also make sure that they have tools for time management.

On working with Wallace Foundation for UPPI

07:10: How did we overcome the challenges? UPPI was a bit structured by the Wallace Foundation in terms of giving us tasks to think about the work to prepare the work—what I think the Institute for Learning out of Pittsburgh calls organizing for effort. So we did a self-study. That was one of the very first things that all participants in UPPI had to do. So we used the quality measures tool for leader preparation programs, and that gave us data that helped us understand where our strengths were, where the areas of potential improvement were going to be.

How students are playing active role in shared governance

21:54: UCAPP 3.0, the third generation of our program, is completely different. The courses are different. We switched from a traditional supervision model in clinical experience to leadership coaching. And that's not just a change in terms. It is a change in role and function. We have core assessments that are independent projects that had never been done before. Most importantly, with the support of the faculty, we've redesigned again. We've completely changed two of the instructional leadership courses because while they were a good start, they weren't what we thought was right, and we could do better.

Show Links:

• Richard Gonzales Faculty Profile at UCONN
• Richard Gonzales Profile on LinkedIn