The average age of an Episcopal parishioner is now mid-60s. Older parishioners are vital. But where are the young people? How do we reach them? And what, exactly, are they looking for when it comes to church?

Times are changing in terms of the race for cultural relevance, at least when it comes to ministry to young adults. Waning are the days when churches feel pressure to change style or personality in order to appeal to younger generations.

Because what has worked for centuries to form God’s people keeps on working—sacraments; sacred spaces, vestments and vessels; time-tested prayers; bread and wine, water, oil, and incense; loving community—and there is no sign at the portals saying, “you must be 21 or up to enter”

There’s also an element of blessed enchantment, or holy mystery, in these ancient Christian rites and practices, that’s maybe specially poignant for a disenchanted age.

Today we speak with someone today who doesn’t try to solve the puzzle of why more young people aren’t flocking to Episcopal Churches, but who wants to point out some important pieces from his own 30-year experience as a campus minister.

Today we talk about:

• His journey in ministry to young adults.
• Blind spots and opportunities for the Episcopal Church specifically.
• What he sees in the spiritual hunger of students.
• What he has learned from evangelicals along the way.
• How rootedness and tradition might give a real advantage when it is time for innovative mission.

Our guest today is the Rev. Allen Wakabayashi. Allen serves as the Chaplain for The Episcopal Church at Princeton and as the Province II Coordinator for Young Adult Campus Ministries. He has also been a campus minister with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, and has pastored in a diversity of Episcopal, non-denominational, and evangelical church settings.

Today’s bonus segment takes us into our Books & Culture corner, where the Rev. David Beresford reviews the new film, A Great Awakening, about an unlikely friendship between Benjamin Franklin and itinerant preacher, George Whitefield. David is a retired priest who lives in Wilmington, Delaware.

From this episode

Books Allen mentions:

Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future

Leadership in a Shrinking Church

David’s whole review of A Great Awakening

davidberesford.net

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Our guest today is the Rt. Rev. Dr. Eleanor Sanderson. Eleanor is Bishop of Hull in the Diocese of York and was previously the Assistant Bishop in the Diocese of Wellington, New Zealand. She serves on the Anglican Communion Commission for Discipleship and Evangelism and has a passion for the renewal of God’s church through multiplying missional disciples and intentional communities.

Today we talk about personal journeys: backpacking, bus rides, and the multifaceted adventure of coming to Christ. We also talk about helping guide others along the way, and how evangelism and community map onto the geography of discipleship and formation.

We’ll also look at a practical apprenticeship model of discipleship she calls “discipleship coaching.” She suggests some excellent resources and describes their powerful but simple format, including Mustard Seed ministries and Discovery Bible Studies.

And at the end of this episode, stay tuned for a new bonus segment!

For today’s bonus segment, we chat with the Rev. Shahzad Gill, Senior Chaplain to the Moderator Bishop of the Church of Pakistan, and Presbyter in Charge of the National Church of Pakistan. With all the anxiety over Christian influence and power in politics and society in the U.S., what it’s like to be an Anglican in a place where Christians are hardly the majority? Shahzad tells a story about family and resilience.

From this episode:

Mustard Seed discipleship 

Discovery Bible Studies 

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We also enjoy a bonus segment at the end that includes some Eastertide treats, including book recommendations and recipes.

See below for related articles, essays, and resources, including corresponding goodies from our bonus segment.

Podcast host and Director of Programs Amber Noel is joined by the Rev. Mark Michael, Editor in Chief of The Living Church magazine, and the Rev. Dr. Matthew Olver, Executive Director and Publisher of the Living Church.

For more, consider subscribing to The Living Church magazine, the only independent news voice covering the Episcopal Church and Anglican Communion.

From this episode:

Gafcon, Global Anglican Communion, and Abuja Affirmation:

(Award-winning podcast episode) 

https://livingchurch.org/podcasts/questions-for-gafcon/

(Articles and essays)

https://livingchurch.org/news/news-anglican-communion/heres-who-leads-the-global-anglican-communion/

https://livingchurch.org/covenant/abuja-series-1/

https://livingchurch.org/covenant/a-confessional-solution-but-what-about-the-nairobi-cairo-proposal/

https://livingchurch.org/covenant/the-abuja-affirmation-an-anglican-communion/

https://livingchurch.org/covenant/abuja-series-goddard-responds-to-avis/

https://livingchurch.org/covenant/a-fretful-future-gafcons-reordering-of-the-communion-part-1/

Rwandan bishop and cattle grazing:

https://livingchurch.org/news/news-anglican-communion/jailed-rwandan-bishop-pleads-for-justice/

https://livingchurch.org/news/news-anglican-communion/jailed-rwandan-bishop-released/

New church growth survey:

https://livingchurch.org/news/news-episcopal-church/churchwide-surveys-seeks-bright-spots-for-growt…

Eastertide treats:

Travel books by Patrick Leigh Fermor

Lamb chop “lollipop” recipe

Elderflower gin + tonic (Don’t forget to add lemon!)

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Today’s conversation is about how prayer affects our leadership, and how our pastors’ prayer lives affect us. Whether you are the leader of a congregation, staff, or a person in the pew, our show today is a fascinating, and at times moving, analysis of how healthy leadership, staff culture, and church health are deeply intertwined with the prayer lives of the leaders.

Our conversation isn’t based on formal research, but from the lived perspective of one priest and what he’s observed in the different churches and rectors he’s served.

Our guest today is the Rev. John D. Sundara. John is vice rector at St. John the Divine Episcopal Church in Houston, Texas. Previous appointments include St. Martin's, Houston, and Church of the Incarnation, Dallas.

We’ll talk about things like:

• The importance of sharing your prayer life with the people you serve.
• Appropriate vulnerability and rejecting ego.
• How a culture of prayer creates room for discussion, disagreement, and decision-making.
• Ways that prayer nurtures a trusting and confident staff culture.
• The gifts and limitations of the prayer book for carrying us in a life of prayer.

John also shares about his journey, and times when prayer has been agonizingly difficult. How does God show up when praying is the last thing you want to do?

Now whether you are a newbie or long time student in the school of prayer; sailing along or bottomed out; charismatic, Catholic, evangelical, or somewhere else on the map; if you’re interested in what it can mean to lead from a place of prayer, this episode is for you. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

From this episode:

This episode is made possible in part by a special bequest from the Anglican Fellowship of Prayer.

“Prayer Drives Congregational Growth” by John Sundara

With Christ in the School of Prayer by Andrew Murray

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Augustine of Canterbury was sent by Pope Gregory in 597 on mission to re-evangelize Britain and became the first Archbishop of Canterbury. Incase you haven’t heard, Anglicans have made world news for electing as the 106^th Archbishop of Canterbury the first woman to serve in the role, former Bishop of London, the Most Rev. Sarah Mullally. 

Archbishop Sarah is coming into the role at a time of many tensions and possible changes within the Anglican Communion, including what the ABC's role should actually be and what shape the church might take under the continued pressures of disagreement over what it means to be faithful to the gospel today.

Our editor in chief, the Rev. Dr. Mark Michael, sat down with Dr. Andrew Atherstone, who has just published the definitive biography of Archbishop Sarah called (very appropriately) Archbishop Sarah Mullally: A Biography.

They talk about:

• Why she was the “dark horse” of the ABC race the bookies didn’t initially bet on.
• Why Andrew calls her a “trailblazer” and a “pioneer.”
• How 20 years in a south-side evangelical church and a 20-year career as a nurse shape her leadership.
• What we learn from a collection of her parish sermons.
• And how we might anticipate her role in the Anglican Communion’s approach to euthanasia, same-sex marriage, and other divisive issues.

Andrew is Professor of Modern Anglicanism at the University of Oxford, and Tutorial Fellow and Latimer Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford. He is a prolific writer and biographer of the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

From this episode:

Archbishop Sarah’s website

Archbishop Sarah Mullally: A Biography by Andrew Atherstone

Archbishop Justin Welby: Risk Taker and Reconciler by Andrew Atherstone

Ecclesiastical History of the English People and other books by the Venerable Bede

Living in Love and Faith process

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Our guests today tackle one of the toughest topics of our time head on, from both a theological and technical perspective.

What is AI? Is it unprecedented? What can AI currently, actually, do? Should Christians accept, or resist? 

As Christians, it’s often hard to know whether to embrace new technology. If we get worked up or freaked out, is it about the right things? Where might we still need to fill in gaps in our knowledge or our discipleship? Are we living in The Matrix? Or can we let the robots help, sometimes, and still insist on fully human lives?

Our guests today are Arlie Coles and the Rt. Rev. Dr. George Sumner.

Arlie is a lay Anglican from the Diocese of Dallas who writes about modern Episcopal history and polity. She is also a machine-learning researcher serving on General Convention’s Task Force on Artificial Intelligence and Intellectual Property and a reporter for the Living Church.

Bishop George is retired Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Dallas and former Principal of Wycliffe Theological Seminary.

The Rev. Dr. Matthew Olver, Executive Director of the Living Church, joins Amber Noel as co-host.

We talk about:

• How AI taps into our instincts for communication, mystery, and relationship.
• How this both increases its usefulness and gives us the creeps.
• What AI is good for and not good for (spoiler, not writing sermons).
• Pastoral concerns about spiritual influence, addiction, and human dignity.
• Whether we need an Anglican “Prayer Before Using AI.”
• Why you might want to go full Star Trek and rename your Alexa “Computer” so you’re less likely to mistake a tool for a person.

The forms and capacities of human tools are not neutral— a steak knife, an AR-15, and a Ouija board do not carry the same potential for moral or immoral use— but, like the idols of old, do AI tools, which have “screens but see not, algorithms but feel not,” receive the power and significance they have only from the power and significance we give them?

One of the biggest dangers of AI comes from one of humanity’s greatest gifts: language and its use in relationships.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

From this episode:

Living Church articles on AI

“AI as Normal Technology” by Arvind Narayanan and Sayash Kapoor

Against the Machine by Paul Kingsnorth

Interview with Paul Kingsnorth and Ross Douthat about AI

Find Nathan Jennings’ 6-part preaching series on our online journal, Covenant

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When we talk about the brain, we think of the intellect, private processes, perception—even as the center or source of the self. And the brain is one important place where “self” happens.

But what if all our private, individualized function, in fact our very life, depends much more on exterior factors, like eye contact and physical touch? What if the center of what it means to be human, or even to be yourself, is not in your head but very much outside it?

How can what scientists are learning about the brain open up theological anthropology, pastoral care, and how we read Scripture?

Our guest today is Dr. Rodney Wilson. Rod is associate professor of psychology at Covenant College, Lookout Mountain, GA, with a specialty in clinical neuropsychology. He also works in hospitals and with patients who have dementia syndrome and their families, with one foot in the classroom and one in the clinic.

We talk today about neuroplasticity and the “renewing of the mind”; how we’re never so much “in our heads” as in relationships; how the temperature of your coffee or the smell of a charcoal fire can affect your ability to know truth and build trust; and what the brain teaches us about our limits and the mystery of love.

If this episode piques your interest, and you have further questions about the brain and Christian life or leadership, Rod welcomes you to get in touch with him. Please see the link to his website below.

Now hold on to your hats, and we hope you enjoy this enlightening conversation.

From this episode:

Curt Thompson’s books

Dan Siegel and interpersonal neurobiology

Get in touch with Rod to learn more or with any questions

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What book of common prayer book do you use? And why? Whichever it is, and however you relate to other Anglicans, all of our common prayer books share one ancestor which still binds us together today, more closely than we might realize.

Today we’re going back to the roots of your Anglican prayer book: the great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandaddy of all Anglican prayer books, the 1662 Book of Common Prayer.

The 1662 wasn’t technically the first book of common prayer in England. So why is it the standard by which so many Anglicans today measure and revise their prayer books? Where did it come from? What makes it stand the test of time? How was it controversial, even divisive, in its own day? And how has it helped bring Christians together since?

Our guest is Dr. Drew Nathaniel Keane. Drew is a lecturer in English at Georgia Southern University and managing editor of The Anglican Way. He is the co-author, along with Samuel Bray, of How to Use the Book of Common Prayer and co-editor with the same of the 1662 Book of Common Prayer: International Edition. He’s also currently co-authoring a commentary on the 1662 Book of Common Prayer with IVP Academic.

Now let’s get down the family album, blow off the dust, and hear some tales from a fascinating and crucial chapter in our Anglican story. Family is indeed stranger than fiction. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

This episode is made possible in part by a special bequest from the Anglican Fellowship of Prayer.

From this episode:

More about Drew's work

How to Use the Book of Common Prayer: A Guide to the Anglican Liturgy

1662 Book of Common Prayer: International Edition

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We talk about his musical influences and about the formation (and deformation) that happens through Christian music. We talk about creating and speaking in difficult times, working in the shadow of the cross, and, as he puts it, “the dialectic struggle between the call and your ability to meet it.” We also talk about the importance of vulnerability and play, telling your story, and learning to be a Holy Fool.

Our executive director, Matthew Olver, joined us for this chat and mini-concert.

Our set list includes “In the Beginning Was Love,” “Where Your Treasure Is,” “Kingdom of God,” and “I See the Birds,” with great conversation in between.

Jon Guerra is a singer-songwriter who writes devotional music, “music for attending to the soul.” He’s based in Austin, Texas, and his albums include Keeper of Days, Ordinary Ways, and his latest, Jesus, among others. He also composed music for Terrence Malick’s 2019 film, A Hidden Life.

We hope you enjoy the music and the conversation.

From this episode:

Jon’s website, album, merch

Jon’s tour schedule

Poet Robert Lax

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Today’s episode is from a panel at the RadVo 2025 conference on politics and preaching: the if, why, and how.

Panelists discuss discernment, formation, and what preaching is for, and give examples of how the gospel of Jesus forms people who can be both responsive and resilient to political challenges and change.

Panelists include:

The Rev. Dr. Annette Brownlee, professor emerita of pastoral theology and the former chaplain at Wycliffe College at the University of Toronto. She has served the life of the church widely in both the academy and in parish ministry, and she's the author of Preaching Jesus Christ Today: Six Questions for Moving from Scripture to Sermon as well as “The Responsibility of the Church to the State in an Era of Mass Migration.”

The Rev. Tish Harrison Warren, writer and priest in the Anglican Church in North America. She's the author of several books, including Liturgy of the Ordinary and Prayer in the Night, which won Christianity Today's book of the year awards (2018 and 2022). She has also been a columnist for the New York Times and Christianity Today, and is a senior fellow at the Trinity Forum.

Dr. Joe Mangina, professor of theology at Wycliff College at the University of Toronto. He is the former editor of Pro Ecclesia, the ecumenical journal of theology, and has served on the Anglican-Roman Catholic Dialogue for Canada. He is the author of several books, including a commentary in the book of Revelation with Brazos Theological Commentary series.

The panel is moderated by the Rev. Dr. Matthew Olver, executive director of The Living Church.

Thanks to RadVo and Church of the Incarnation in Dallas who hosted this panel.

From the Bible, to the ballot box, to meditating come-to-Jesus meetings between parishioners fighting on Facebook, we hope you enjoy the conversation.

--

From this episode:

RadVo 2027

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On December 16, 1775, the Anglican clergy family of Austens welcomed their youngest daughter, who would grow to become one of the world’s greatest novelists and, as we’ll discuss today, a profound Christian; a loving and lively friend, sister, and aunt; a scholar of human nature; and an expert on how the virtues and vices that make or break us reveal themselves in the everyday. She was also, for the record, hilarious.

Today’s conversation is part of our annual Cozy Christmas Chat series, and our guests are Haley Stewart and the Rev. Dr. David Goodhew.

Haley is a Catholic author and the editor of Word on Fire Votive. She was cohost of the popular Fountains of Carrots podcast, and is the author of Jane Austen's Genius Guide to Life, The Grace of Enough, and The Sister Seraphina Mysteries.

David is Vicar of St Barnabas Church, Middlesbrough, England and Visiting Fellow of St Johns College, Durham University. He is widely published, with five volumes on modern Christianity and church growth. But he has also written several excellent and entertaining essays on Jane Austen’s life and faith that you can read at livingchurch.org/covenant.

Today we encounter Jane Austen via Dante’s Inferno, learn from her on the virtues, unpack the popularity of Bridgerton, critique film adaptations, and learn about the personal practices of prayer that rooted Jane’s genius. And, from Mr. Darcy who can’t bear to be laughed at, to Emma with little to trouble or vex her, we discuss how humor, used with compassion, can be an expression of love.

We hope you enjoy this cozy Christmas conversation!

From this episode:

David’s articles on Jane Austen

Haley’s books on Jane, etc.

Haley’s Sister Seraphina Mysteries

Haley’s podcast

Haley’s Substack

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Today’s episode is from a conversation we co-hosted with The Episcopal Parish Network to explore how congregations can engage more faithfully and effectively with immigrant and refugee neighbors.

We dip into a bit of theology here. But we concentrate on strategic application, legal context, and pastoral insights for building authentic relationships and deepening mission.

We discuss:

• Legal landscapes around immigration—what’s true, what’s not true, how it affects ministry.
• Pastoral care that is culturally responsive instead of awkward or well-meaningly clueless.
• Cooperating with ethnic leaders to support and empower immigrants and their families.
• Practical tips to try.

This conversation is about bridges across borders: discerning the opportunities God has put in front of you, making a solid plan, and accepting the time and help it takes to build bridges that last.

Our guests today are: 

The Rev. Dr. Samira Izadi Page, founder and executive director of Gateway of Grace, Dallas, Texas.

James Montana, Esq., principal and immigration lawyer at James Montana Law, Falls Church, Virginia.

The Rev. Christian Anderson, vicar at St. Mary’s Episcopal Church, Stuart, Florida.

The Rev. Jaime Briceño, rector at St. Michael and All Angels Episcopal Church, Berwyn, Illinois.

From this episode:

Watch the video

List of recommended legal and ministry resources

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Pastoral Ministrations of the Priest

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In 1906, in a no-count Los Angeles storefront, a one-eyed preacher named William Seymour, son of former slaves, began leading services on Azuza Street.

Azuza Street has gone down in history as the catalyst of the Pentecostal movement, one of the largest groups of Christians in the world today. But it’s also had deep impact on much older traditions, including the Roman Catholic Church. Charismatic Catholics owe much to brothers and sisters whose practices may make them scratch their heads. On the other hand, maybe you've noticed the—could we call it?— "revival" among free-church Christians in interest in liturgy, tradition, and the sacraments.

This is just the generous way God works, giving us encounters we would never have found for ourselves, with him and one another, and helping us share our gifts and appreciate the gifts of others, across time, space, and difference.

Today we’ll hear from a Roman Catholic missioner and a Pentecostal theologian who have been walking together this surprising road of Christian unity, and we’ll hear some of their stories.

Nathan Smith serves as the Director of Ecumenism for Glenmary Home Missioners and as a consultant for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops Secretariat for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs. In his ministry, he seeks to foster reconciliation between the Catholic Church, Evangelicals and Pentecostals. He also served with the Vatican’s Dicastery for Promoting Christian Unity at the 2024 Global Christian Forum gathering.

The Rev. Dr. David Han is the Dean of the Faculty at Pentecostal Theological Seminary and is involved in various ecumenical activities such as the Global Christian Forum, the Wesleyan Holiness Connection, the International Pentecostal and Anglican Commission, and the Catholic and Pentecostal Dialogue in the United States.

Now hold on to your rosaries. But stay ready to shout amen. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Ministries and dialogues we mention:

Global Christian Forum

Glenmary Home Missioners

US Conference of Catholic Bishops Secretariat for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs

Dicastery for Promoting Christian Unity

International Pentecostal and Anglican Commission

Catholic and Pentecostal Dialogue

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We are approaching yet another Advent season, a season of making space to wait on God.

Maybe you’re good at making that space. Like a cat, you have no problem flopping down where you are, stretching your legs, and letting Jesus take the wheel.

Or maybe you’re addicted—like most of us—to work, to control and productivity, to entertainment, perhaps even to podcasts!—and Advent feels like a struggle.

Or maybe you’re working three jobs because you have to, and maintaining an interior grasp of God’s love, in the midst of the crazy, is what slowing down means for you.

But sometimes being still is not something you choose. It’s thrust upon you. When you’re not able to go anywhere or do anything much, Advent is life, whether you ask for it or not.

That’s where our guest today found herself. And in that long, involuntary long season of Advent, as she reflected on her life and grew a garden, the journey brought her to writing a little Advent book about nature, the seasons, and the tradition of manger scenes where she grew up in Provence, France, and how she found Jesus there.

Our guest today is Sylvie Vanhoozer. Sylvie is a certified botanic artist, retired French teacher, and author of two books of nature sketches and meditations: The Art of Living in Advent: 28 Days of Joyful Waiting as well as The Art of Living in Season: A Year of Reflections for Everyday Saints. 

Here are some French words we use today: 

Crèche: manger scene

Santons: “little saints”; clay figurines based on ordinary people 

Terroir: a people’s land and all the life in it

Now remind yourself where you’ve stored away your Nativity set. Because after this conversation you might want to get it out. Perhaps it will help you remember, receive, and share the gospel over the next few weeks.

More from Sylvie:

theartoflivinginseason.com

The Art of Living in Advent, discount code IVPPOD20 for 20% off plus free shipping!

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There are Anglicans rejoicing over this news. Anglicans grieving over this news. Anglicans who don’t know what to think. And a lot of Anglicans who may not know what’s going on, or may not know what this has to do with them.

Today, we explore some of these feelings and questions, and pose some questions of our own.

On Oct 16, a communiqué email went out from a conservative, international fellowship of Anglican churches, representing several major Anglican provinces worldwide, known as GAFCON. (There are a lot of acronyms in this episode, but we will spell them out as we go.) This communiqué dropped into people’s inboxes with the title “The Future Has Arrived.” Here are a few introductory paragraphs:

“The first Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCON) gathered in 2008 in Jerusalem to prayerfully respond to the abandonment of the Scriptures by some of the most senior leaders of the Anglican Communion, and to seek their repentance.

“In the absence of such repentance, we have been prayerfully advancing towards a future for faithful Anglicans, where the Bible is restored to the heart of the Communion.

“Today, that future has arrived.”

Then follow 8 resolutions for establishing a Global Anglican Communion separate from the Anglican Communion and the Instruments of Communion.

TLC editor Mark Michael and executive director Matthew Olver join podcast host Amber Noel to ask questions about the meaning and contents of this communiqué, its language and propositions, the history that led up to it, its timing in light of current leadership scandals in the ACNA, and what people who want to move forward with GAFCON might be risking, particularly leaders from the Global South, or what they may still need to know. We also direct specific questions to GAFCON leaders themselves.

And we invite you to join us. If you are a leader in the Anglican Communion, in GAFCON, in the ACNA, or in the Global South Fellowship of Anglicans, and you have something you want to ask, share, or correct in response to this podcast, please get in touch: ambernoel@livingchurch.org. We have questions and critiques, but we also want to understand better what’s going on, and why, and how we can receive needed renewal and reformation together.

Thanks for listening to this conversation. And if you have something to bring to the table, we hope to hear from you.

From this episode:

Resources from GAFCON:

Oct 16 “The Future Has Arrived” communiqué

The Jerusalem Declaration (founding document of GAFCON)

Bishop Paul Donison’s interview on the Stand Firm podcast

Bishop Laurent Mbanda's podcast interview

Resources from The Living Church:

Analysis: GAFCON Creates Global Anglican Communion

‘You Have Broken My Heart’—A Letter to My Siblings in GAFCON

Poggo Responds to GAFCON Communion Launch

The Inside Story on GAFCON’s Communiqué

GSFA Leader Questions GAFCON Communiqué

Podcast: Who Cares About Communion? with Christopher Wells

Other resources:

Nairobi-Cairo Proposals (IASCUFO)

Chemin Neuf’s “Prayer for Christian Unity”

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Today’s episode is a conversation with novelist H.S. Cross, recorded live at St. John’s Episcopal Church in Savannah, GA, as part of their Sunday Night Sessions. 

We talk with Heather about 1920s Oxford; love stories and their theological significance; what it’s like to create and then watch your creations surprise you. We discuss the importance of play; why skipping the hard parts risks a story no longer feeling “real”; and the need to “Hold your nerve and not rush the ending.” And finally, since her novel is a messy and complicated romance, in some parts, as she puts it, “rated R" for sexuality, what does it mean, in this kind of story, to “tell the truth” or to get caught “writing while Christian”?

H.S. Cross has been a tutor and a writer and is the author of three novels: Wilberforce, Grievous, and her latest novel, Amanda.

Now rock your best Oxford bags and handkerchief hemline. We’re heading to the 1920’s where we’ll meet a couple of God-haunted lovers, the woman who created them, and discover what faith has to do with fiction. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

From this episode:

Watch this conversation on YouTube

Amanda and other books by H.S. Cross

Associate for Youth and Young Adults job posting at St. John’s Savannah (October 2025)

Related podcast episodes:

Christmas chat with Heather Cross

Music and ministry with Jon Jameson

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Other events you might enjoy:

Nashotah House intensive course on “The Prayer Book Tradition” (January 2026)

The Anglican Way Conference (February 2026)

In case you hadn’t noticed, it’s Nicaea’s 1700th birthday party all year long. Theology, church politics, Christian unity, we’re here for all of it. 

This is one of two episodes this year focusing specifically on Nicaea itself. Our first one was in January: Learning from Nicaea with Lewis Ayers.

Today, we'll learn how we live with Nicaea. We're joined by Catholic theologian Peter Casarella and Pentecostal theologian Daniela Augustine for an ecumenical chat about the council and its importance for the church and world today.

We’ll consider time travel, uncover some things about Nicaea I never knew, explore political and social implications of the council, and make 1700th birthday speeches. And if you ever asked yourself what Nicaea has to do with the Bolshevik Revolution or American empire, today’s your lucky day.

Dr. Daniela Augustine is Professor of Theological Ethics at Lee University and Honorary Senior Research Fellow in Philosophy, Theology, and Religion at the University of Birmingham in the UK.

Dr. Peter Casarella is Professor of Theology at Duke Divinity School and one of the founders of the Catholic Initiative at Duke.

Now, whether you’ve been at this party a long time, or just coming in and wondering what it’s all about, we hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Our guest today, Dr. Abram Van Engen, has a strong case for why poetry isn't esoteric at all, but extremely useful, concrete, relational, enjoyable, and meaningful, not just for you, but for the Church.

His latest book is called Word Made Fresh, an Invitation to Poetry for the Church. Today we’ll discuss: the point of poetry and why anyone should bother reading it, how to read a poem, what it might mean that Scripture is full of poetry, what church leaders learn from the art of being apt, and what the heck a poem even is.

Whether you're a "poetry person" or not, this conversation may just get you jazzed up about the ability of a poem to invite our attention in a special way, delight us, deepen us; even give us a little cross-training in the kind of attention we hope to develop in life with God.

Abram is Stanley Elkin Professor in the Humanities, Chair of the English Department, and Professor of Religion and Politics at Washington University in St. Louis. He is also the director of the John C. Danforth Center on Religion and Politics. His new book on poetry as spiritual practice, Word Made Fresh, won the 2024 Christianity Today award for art and poetry.

Now whether you dislike it, or you believe poetry, like the world, "is charged with the grandeur of God" (a little Gerard Manley Hopkins for you), we hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Well, we’re an Anglican podcast. Need we say more?

Knowing how to share and make a good cup of tea translates around the globe. Whether it’s hospitality or work-life balance, tea has played a significant role in leadership, conversation, and parish life. 

Today we meet an amazing Christian woman who knows all about tea, why it's special, and how God can use tea time as an opportunity for ministry and leadership lessons. Her name is Jackie James.

Jackie is a certified Tea Sommelier and founder at The London Tea Merchant. She’s also the former owner of the London Tea Room in St. Louis, Missouri.

We’ll hear today about her journey from a Jesus Freak preacher’s kid in the U.K. to a businesswoman in midwest America.

We'll learn a bit about the slow art, challenging business, and fascinating science of tea, and where she has found God at work in it all. How can we stop and share time? How do you run the show, and let things go? How can unlearning self-preserving habits with difficult staff members lead to strength, vulnerability, and grace?

Now get your scones and Victoria Sponge cake ready, because we’re about to have a "jam" session on finding the Lord’s work in a hot cuppa.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

SPECIAL discount code LTMSHOP for 5% off at the London Tea Merchant

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In 1415, a Roman Catholic priest named Jan Hus was burned at the stake in Prague for promoting a vernacular liturgy, clergy marriage, and the elimination of indulgences. If he had been born just a few decades later, he might have found a friend in Martin Luther. But instead we know him as the forerunner of a pre-Protestant reforming movement that became the Moravian Church.

Moravians have a unique and robust culture, a fascinating history, and were some of the first and strongest voices for Christian unity, before the ecumenical movement even began.

Who are the Moravians? What are they about? Why do they love Anglicans, and what can we learn from each other?

Today’s episode is part of our Full Communion Partner series.

You can find our other Full Communion Partner episodes here:

https://livingchurch.org/podcasts/reformation-politics-and-friendship-with-matthew-riegel/

https://livingchurch.org/podcasts/old-church-new-callings-with-magnus-persson/

Our first guest is the Rev. Derek French, pastor of Nazareth Moravian Church in Nazareth, Pennsylvania, and co-chair of the Moravian-Episcopal Coordinating Committee.

And our second guest is the Rt. Rev. M. Blair Couch, bishop in the Moravian Church. She is also on the Lutheran-Anglican-Moravian Coordinating Committe in Canada and the Moravian-Episcopal Coordinating Committee in the U.S.

Now pour yourself a German beer. We’re going to hang out with some Christians who from persecuted European beginings quickly found their place among the peacemakers. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

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How do those who have taken the habit live their vocations from the monastery into the world around them? And what about the rest of us? What can we learn, whether lay or ordained, from the disciplines and wisdom of monastics? 

Today we’ll hear from three Anglicans whose vocations have been shaped by Benedictine monasticism in different ways. We'll learn about the 6th-century Rule of St. Benedict and how it continues to discipline and nurture Christian life in the 21st century. 

Our first guest is Sister Greta Ronningen. Sr. Greta is a co-founder of Community of Divine Love, an Episcopal monastery in the Benedictine tradition located in San Gabriel, California. She is also an Episcopal priest, prison chaplain, retreat leader, and writer, and the author of Free on the Inside: Finding God Behind Bars.

Our second guest is the Rev. Canon Bryan Biba. Bryan is assistant rector at Christ Church Anglican in Savannah, Georgia, and canon for leadership for the Gulf Atlantic Diocese of the Anglican Church in North America. He is also an oblate of the Order of St. Benedict at St. John’s Abbey, a Roman Catholic monastery in Collegeville, Minnesota.

Our third guest is Annie Hodges. Annie is a supply chain manager by day and an Episcopal podcaster by night. With her sister Kate Greer, she hosts The Average Episcopalian podcast, tackling the mystery of faith with reason and humor through the lens of the church they love.

Whether you’re into wimples, cinctures, and Birkenstocks, or following Jesus without the telltale garments, here’s to holy habits of all kinds. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Book Bryan mentioned: Benedictine Daily Prayer

Book Annie mentioned: St. Benedict's Toolbox

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With respect to all the practical concerns here, this is a false divide. Hopefully, today's conversation might help us start to find a way across.

We'll talk about leadership, Christian freedom, and political will; challenging presuppositions about authority and building and empowering community bit by bit; various angles and ways of being strategic; and a bit about Catholic social teaching that might help Anglican and Episcopal leaders get "unstuck" from fixed religious and politcal categories to discern more holistic paths of faithful action.

Our guests are The Rev. Canon Natalie Arendse and Dr. Elisabeth Kincaid. 

Natalie is currently chaplain to Whitsunday Anglican School in Mackay, Queensland, Australia. She is honorary Canon in the Anglican Church of Southern Africa and former head of St. John's Leadership Academy in Cape Town, a formation program for lay and ordained leaders. 

Elisabeth is director of Baylor University's Institute for Faith and Learning and Associate Professor of Ethics, Faith and Culture at George W. Truett Seminary. She's also author of the new book, Law from Below: How the Thought of Francisco Suárez, SJ, Can Renew Contemporary Legal Engagements.

Now grab your thinking caps and your work boots as we discover a bit more about how prayer and politics, bible studies and social justice, can (and do) go together.

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The Order of the Daughters of the King is a vowed order for women who are communicants of Episcopal Churches or churches in the historic episcopate. They currently include women around the world in the Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran, and Roman Catholic traditions.

Daughters take vows to obey the two Rules of The Order: the Rule of Prayer and the Rule of Service. They aid local clergy and parishes in prayer and evangelism, and do it while wearing a simple silver cross, the cross of The Order. 

Our guest today is Dr. Grace Sears, past president and archivist of the Order of the Daughters of the King, and past editor of its magazine, The Royal Cross. She is also past vice president of the board of The Living Church Foundation.

We'll talk today about being taken by surprise by a calling, learning leadership, navigating controversial times, and what happens when the Holy Spirit falls in a business meeting.

What can we take from a group of women who simply vow to pray and serve together, no matter their own season of life, or what's going on the life of the church or the world?

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Learn more about the Good Shepherds conference 

Today we'll be looking at the ministry of the Anglican Centre in Rome, a hub of ecumenical meeting, dialogue, and fellowship in the Eternal City.

The Anglican Centre was founded in 1966, during the watershed of ecumenical engagement that followed the Second Vatican Council. It hosts lectures, exhibitions, special courses, and other public events that foster deeper understanding between Anglicans and Roman Catholics. It also works closely with the Catholic lay community St. Egidio, in projects that serve the poor and disadvantaged in Rome. 

We'll be hearing from its new Director, the Rt. Rev. Anthony Ball. Our conversation will cover his own journey into ecumenical ministry, the Anglican Centre's mission today, and what his own calling might bring to the Centre. We also talk about the importance of pilgrimage and imagine Christianity 100 years from now.

Bishop Anthony is also Archbishop of Canterbury’s Representative to the Holy See. He's served in many capacities, including as a diplomat, as the Archbishop of Canterbury’s representative to the Heads of the Orthodox Churches in Syria and Lebanon, as Rowan Williams's chaplain, as Bishop of North Africa, as canon steward of Westminster Abbey and as Archdeacon of Westminster.

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In this episode, you’ll hear from the Hillbilly Thomists, the Billboard-charting bluegrass band made up entirely of Catholic Dominican Friars. They talk about their theology and vocation, as well as how they manage life on the road as priests who have taken a vow of poverty. Plus, they give live performances of some of their finest songs.

When they are not contemplating, studying, and preaching, the Hillbilly Thomists are writing songs. They've released four albums including

Hillbilly Thomists, Living for the Other Side, Holy Ghost Power, and Marigold. Marigold spent 3 weeks on the Billboard bluegrass charts, debuting at #2. The friars also have a Christmas album in the works.

Proceeds from album sales, donations, and merchandise sales allow the friars to continue to produce and perform music, while providing ongoing support to the formation of friars at the Dominican House of Studies in Washington, D.C.

Thanks to No Small Endeavor for sharing this episode with us.

For other episodes like this one, follow No Small Endeavor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favorite podcast app.

Learn more about the Hillbilly Thomists

Learn more about No Small Endeavor

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Our two guests today, while not in substantial theological disagreement about trans topics, bring to their different experiences, approaches, and relationships lots of much-needed nuance, and some timely new questions, to a conversation grounded in traditional Christian theology.

Can we question aspects of trans-anthropology as needed, or question current rhetoric or practices, but in the cause of charity, honesty, and human flourishing rather than against it? How do the right and left get caught in echo chambers here? How do we affirm the flawed gifts of the human body, while engaging its most painful experiences? How can we learn better to love and trust people?

Our guests today are Dr. Abigail Favale and Pieter Valk. 

Abby is a writer and professor in the McGrath Institute for Church Life at the University of Notre Dame. She has an academic background in gender studies and feminist literary criticism, and now writes and teaches on topics related to women and gender from a Catholic perspective. Her latest book is The Genesis of Gender: A Christian Theory. 

Pieter is a sought-after author and speaker on discernment, vocational singleness, and LGBT+ topics. Pieter is also the Founder and Director ofEquip, the leading coaching and training solution for theologically-traditional churches aspiring to be places where LGBT+ people thrive according to God's wisdom. He is also a teacher and diaconate explorer in the Anglican Church in North America.

Pieter's Christianity Today article with stats from the Us Versus Us report

Abby's website

Pieter's website

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We'll be speaking with Mary Berry, executive director of the Berry Center, and daughter of poet, farmer, and essayist Wendell Berry. My fellow interviewer today is the Rev. Clint Wilson, rector of St. Francis in the Fields, Harrods Creek, KY, not far from the Berry Center. 

We talk about joy of hard work, and hard work that is good work. Growing up with Wendell Berry as a dad. Faith and farming. Decisions to live with or against a given landscape. What is home? How do you make a home and dedicate yourself to it? The thick fabric of a place, and how work might be interwoven with neighbors, family, and seasons.

What does it mean to actually "Love your neighbor as yourself"? We'll also touch on special challenges the suburbs pose to meaningful life together.

Mary Berry, Executive Director of The Berry Center, grew up at Lanes Landing Farm in Henry County, KY. She has farmed for a living in Henry County, and started The Berry Center in 2011 to continue the agricultural work of John Berry, Sr. and his sons, author Wendell Berry and former Kentucky state senator, the late John M. Berry, Jr. The Berry Center focuses on issues confronting small farming families in Kentucky and around the country.

Hear Mary speak at the Living Church conference

Learn more about the Berry Center or Home Place Meat

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Fr. Matthew Olver and Amber Noel chat with Fr. Martin Browne, who serves at the Vatican's Dicastery for Promoting Christian unity. Martin shares his first impressions of the pope and what it was like working for him. We discuss the pope's choices and charisms, his passion for shared leadership with other Christians, his inability and refusal to fit into a political box, and the fruit this has borne in personal relationships and the global scene, as well as some of the hype, frustration, and bewilderment in the wake of Francis' leadership style and its very public preference for the poor. 

We'll also chat a bit about the movie, Conclave, and what it might get right and wrong about how the new pope will be selected.

The Rev. Martin Browne, OSB, is a Benedictine monk of Glenstal Abbey in Ireland. He currently lives at the Primatial Abbey of Sant' Anselmo in Rome, and serves as an official in the Western Section of the Vatican's Dicastery for Promoting Christian Unity. In the Dicastery he is the desk officer for relations with the Anglican Communion and the World Methodist Council. He is also responsible, in collaboration with the Faith and Order Commission of the World Council of Churches, for the preparation of the prayers and reflections for the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity. He serves as the Catholic Co-Secretary of the Anglican-Roman Catholic International Commission (ARCIC) and the International Anglican-Roman Catholic Commision for Unity and Mission (IARCCUM).

A brief note on when we recorded this: it was just after the pope's death and before his funeral. So take any details or speculations about the funeral proceedings with a grain of salt.

TLC Podcast: Dispatch from Rome

Article: "Pope Francis and the Power of the Symbolic"

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We live in an age of what our guest today calls "polycrisis." Issues interconnect, pile on, and come hard and fast, faster than we can fix or, often, respond to in a thoughtful or Christian way.

How do we avoid either inaction or anxiousness?

We'll seek what our guest today calls "apocalyptic clarity." And we'll ask, "How do we recognize what's true, despite appearances, resist what's false, and participate joyfully in what God is doing?" This turns out to be a helpful window to perspective and practical decision making in a 21st-century Christian life. 

Our guest today is the Rev. Dr. Jesse Zink, principal of Montreal Diocesan Theological College and canon theologian in the Diocese of Montreal. And we'll be discussing his latest book, Faithful, Hopeful, Creative: 15 Theses for Christian Witness in a Crisis-Shaped World. He's also the author of four books about Christian history and global Christianity, as well as an introduction to theology and mission in the Episcopal Church called A Faith for the Future. 

Jesse's bio and books

Study guide for Faithful, Creative, Hopeful

Book Jesse mentioned: What Money Can't Buy: The Moral Limits of Markets

We discuss the "Three streams" of Swedish Lutheranism and it's intersections with Anglicanism, how God led Magnus away from charismatic success to priestly divesment, the painful transformations of grace, and saunas and the Holy Spirit. 

Finally, we talk about the place of the Swedish Evangelical Mission (EFS), the organization Magnus is a part of, within the larger Church of Sweden, and what it's like to work patiently and cheerfully for change from within an ancient institution.

Magnus is an ordained minister in the Church of Sweden and works as a pastor for the Swedish Evangelical Mission. He is also the network co-ordinator of Re:formera, a network and think tank for reformational whole-churchism, and he's the host for its weekly podcast (which Amber appeared on as a guest).

Whether you're struggling to serve in an older institution, wondering whether God might be calling you to a vocational leap of faith, or if you just enjoy a good story, we hope you enjoy the conversation.

More about the Swedish Evangelical Mission (EFS)

Magnus's book, Reclaiming the Reformation

Amber on the Re:formera podcast

Episode with Matthew Riegel (ELCA)

Living Church events

Presiding Bishop Sean has been in office now for a few months. We talk about his priorities for his term, and what slimming down some of the structures and programs of the Episcopal church might look like. We also ask what he'd say to Episcopalians who disagree about same-sex marriage, what Christian unity means, and what he most wants the Anglican Communion and the Anglican Church in North America to know about him.

From TREC to the Nairobi-Cairo Proposals, this conversation should perk the ears of Episcopalians, but will be of interest to anyone in the Anglican family, or any Christian curious about institutional work and hope in a divided Church.

More about Presiding Bishop Sean

Nairobi-Cairo Proposals and IASCUFO

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We discuss his early journey in discipleship and liturgical dance, holy coincidences that connected him with his Russian ballet hero, how discipline can lead to freedom in the Spirit both in dance and liturgical life, and understanding the meaning of "grace."

We hope you've done your work at the barre, because Silas will stretch our imaginations for worship and discipleship, and even what's possible when it comes to dance in church. Hold on to your leotards. 

Silas is Armstrong Artist in Residence in Ballet in the Meadows School of the Arts at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. He's been a teacher and choreographer at places like the New York City Ballet, the Guggenheim, the Washington Ballet, the Met, and all over the world.

More about Silas

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Today's episode features a chat with writer Kate Kilcup Marsh. Kate is a poet, priest's wife, and mother, and is working on a memoir. Her story is one of continual surprises with God, incuding a head over heels Eastern Orthodox conversion, followed by a call to enter the Anglican world. We talk about how Jesus finds us, how to be with kids in church, sobriety and asceticism, and what Eastern and Western Christians learn from each other. This is one woman's journey into the church, into a clergy marriage, into an Episcopal community and now motherhood — a dialogue delightful and instructive.

Kate is a poet and essayist. She's also served as a Russian linguist for the U.S. Army, a janitor, a firefighter, an editor, a farm hand, and a factory worker, among other things. Kate’s writing addresses matters of faith, addiction, motherhood, mental illness, work, gender, and prayer. Her yet-untitled memoir will be published by Eerdman's in 2026. You can keep up with her work and news on her websitekathleenkilcup.com. 

Now brush off your Chrysostom and your Augustine. We're going East and West on a journey of healing. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

More about Kate and her writing

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We talk about Lutheran "distinctives"; how politics can be a way of holiness; how Henry VIII was asked to sign the Ausburg confession; and why the Lutherans are asking for an 8th ecumenical council (which might put them out of a job).

This is part of our series on Episcopal Church Full Communion Partners. You can warm up to these conversations by listening to our interview with Christopher Wells, "Who Cares About Communion?," Episode 129.

Our guest today is Lutheran Bishop, Reformation scholar, and motorcycle man, the Most Rev. Matthew Riegel. Matthew is Bishop of the West Virginia-Western Maryland Synod in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. As a scholar, his primary research interest is the sanctification of ecclesiastical politics. Matthew serves on the West Virginia Council of Churches’ Civic Life and Faith Task Force, and in a previous life has worked as a park ranger. 

Who Cares About Communion? with Christopher Wells

Wittenberg articles of 1536

Fraternal Appeal to the American Churches

Living Church Events

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Many people are thinking about these questions. Many of them are evangelicals, who stand out in American culture as a group of incredible influence: lots of sucess growing churches, and, as our politicians know, lots of power in the polls.

Among the evangelicals thinking, "How did we get here?", is Mike Cosper. You may know Mike from the Christianity Today podcast, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. Today we discuss his new book, The Church in Dark Times: Understanding and Resisting the Evil that Seduced the Evangelical Movement. 

This isn't an episode to pile on to evangelicals, but to learn together from mistakes Christians might, with God's grace and wisdom, learn better to recognize and resist. We talk about dangerous ideologies in politics and church, how they work their way into leadership, and what we might learn more broadly from church leadership downfalls. Then we pivot: what makes churches and communities healthy? What might renewal look like? Can American Christians live for the long game instead of worshipping hype and shortcuts?

Mike Cosper is a Louisville-based writer and podcaster focused on faith and culture and Senior Producer of Podcasts at Christianity Today. Along with The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, he has hostedCultivated: A podcast about faith and work and the weekly “news and issues” podcast, The Bulletin, to name a few. He is also a music producer and author of several books including The Church in Dark Times. 

The Church in Dark Times: Understanding and Resisting the Evil that Seduced the Evangelical Movement

The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast

More from Mike Cosper

Living Church Events

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Today we are celebrating the 1700th birthday of the Ecumenical Council of Nicaea, who is looking incredibly good at her age.

At today's kickoff birthday bash we welcome two very special guests: 

The Rev. Dr. Matthew Olver is Executive Director of The Living Church and Affiliate Professor of Liturgics and Pastoral Theology at Nashotah House Theological Seminary.

Prof. Lewis Ayers is McDonald Agape Distinguished Chair in Early Christian Theology at the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas in Rome, also known as the Angelicum, and Professor of Catholic & Historical Theology at Durham University. His books include Nicaea and Its Legacy: An Approach to Fourth Century Theology and the Oxford Handbook of Catholic Theology (co-editor). 

We're also airing this episode in anticipation of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity. This special week offers an invitation to enter more deeply into the faith and fellowship that unites all Christians.

Participate in the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity.

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The Rev. Dr. Jeremy Begbie is the Thomas A. Langford Distinguished Research Professor of Theology at Duke Divinity School, and McDonald Agape Director of Duke Initiatives in Theology and the Arts. He is Senior Member at Wolfson College, Cambridge, and an Affiliated Lecturer in the Faculty of Music at the University of Cambridge. He's the author of several good books, books including Resounding Truth: Christian Wisdom in the World of Music (Baker/SPCK) and Abundantly More: The Theological Promise of the Arts in a Reductionist World (Baker). 

Now get yourself a mug of something, crank up the fire, crack out the mince pies, but don't get so cozy that you neglect to be discomfited by Christmas. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Jeremy Begbie's books

Recipe for mince pie

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Today we'll speak with the rector, the Rev. Lis Goddard, about how this came about, and how it works.

This is a conversation about radical hospitality. Maybe you've used that phrase; maybe your denomination does. What does that mean? The word "family" is key. Much about a healthy family is being able to share safe space. If baptismal water is truly thicker than blood, how does that require radical hospitality, maybe especially, with those who are vulnerable? And how can it also invite parishioners into a deeper, rather than more tenuous, sense of security?

Today we'll be talking about open doors and open homes, as well as the boundaries and practical policies that make radical hospitality possible. We'll learn about Sabbath, how saying no is an invitation to mutual honor, and ways to equip volunteers for joyful service. 

The Rev. Lis Goddard has been Vicar of St James the Less, Pimlico (London), since September 2010. Other ministry roles have included university chaplain and Tutor for Ministerial Formation at Wycliffe Hall, and Assistant Minister at St Andrew’s Church in North Oxford. She leads missions, mentoring, and spiritual direction initatives, and was the Chair of Awesome/The Junia Network, a network of ordained women evangelicals. She is now Cochair of the Church of England Evangelical Council and is co-author of The Gender Agenda, a book of charitable debate on women's ordination.

When you get off at Pimlico station, be sure to mind the gap. And maybe become more aware of how we can help close the gaps between God's beloved people. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

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And this episode isn't just for people who know what a maniple is. Anyone interested in history, art, sustainable industry, English stuff, or a good yarn will also enjoy this episode.

We'll hear about commissions for the royal family, the formidable women of Watts & Co, the flood that took out several centuries of hand embroidery, secrets of the craft, how vestments might be attracting young people to church, and our longing for beauty in a world of technologized homogeneity. 

Robert Hoare and his sister, Marie-Severine de Caraman Chimay, are fifth-generation owners of Watts.

Is this a conversation about art and worship, or a sales pitch for beautiful vestments? We hope we thread that needle. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Watts & Co website

Opus Anglicanum needlework

Subscribe to The Living Church for $9.95.

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The Bishop of Puerto Rico, the Rt. Rev. Rafael Morales Maldonado, has a passion for creation-care ministries, outreach, and evangelism. What's up in ministry in Puerto Rico? And especially how are they integrating concern for climate change into ministry there?

Bishop Rafael is the diocesan bishop of Puerto Rico, currently provisional bishop in Cuba, and bishop advisor on the Virgin Islands. He is the president of Episcopal Health Services, Inc., which includes the island's most significant home care and hospice service, as well as president of the Episcopal Funeral Services. Bishop Rafael has also been a key leader in responding to natural disasters that have affected Puerto Rico in recent years.

Today we'll talk about: how the island is finding their place in the Lambeth Call on the Environment, saying prayers before planting trees, why good weather reports are a ministry, stepping up mental health services for the voiceless, and learning from St. Francis. 

This is a joyful conversation on creation and loving the neighbor. 

The Lambeth Call on the Environment and Sustainable Development

Programa REDES

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How are Christians formed as effective leaders, and how do they in turn form effective leaders? How do we learn leadership from beyond our home turf to serve in fearlessly contextualized ways?

My guest today is Dr. Mary Ho. Mary is an expert in strategic leadership, and she is the International Executive Leader of All Nations International, a global Christian missions training and sending organization. She is currently co-teaching a 3-year class on leadership in the global Christian context at Gordon Conwell. Mary is also the author of a number of articles that I'll link today in the show notes including, "When Leaders Drink Tea Together," "The Transcendent Culture of Servant Leadership," and "Growing Global Women Leaders from the Majority World." 

Are there Western leadership models that can be exported elsewhere? When and why?

How do we lead with vision, or even with a charismatic personality, while building nurture rather than going toxic?

What can global north organizational leadership learn from global south Christianity?

And what are some benefits and limits to reading leadership books? 

Take off that leadership cap for just a second. Sit back, relax. Maybe have a cup of tea. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Check out these articles by Mary Ho:

Global Leadership for Global Missions

The Transcendent Culture of Servant Leadership: Principles for 21st Century Global Missions

When Leaders Drink Tea Together: A Critique of Western Christian Leadership in Light of Global Trends

Growing Global Women Leaders from the Majority World

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We'll hear today how the Anglican and Roman Catholic bishops of the island both found their call into island ministry, how their friendship started, and some of the fruit it's bearing in their dioceses in sweet and surprising collaborations. We'll also hear some advice on how to make friends with other Christian leaders in your own community, across divides of history and tradition.

The Rt. Rev. Nicholas Dill has been the Anglican Bishop of Bermuda since 2013. Bishop Nick started as a barrister in London, then became a priest, before accepting a call as bishop of his home island of Bermuda. He is looking to see where God is leading the Church, but knows it includes a greater emphasis on work with Christian brothers and sisters of every denomination.

The Most Rev. Wiesław Śpiewak has been the Roman Catholic Bishop of Bermuda since 2015. A native of Poland, Bishop Wes first served there at a seminary, before teaching and serving in Rome, then serving as Provincial of the Polish Province before coming, unexpectedly, to Bermuda. 

Hang on to your mitres and your mai tais. We hope you enjoy the conversation. 

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Videos of Bishop Nick and Bishop Wes:

(20+) Video | Facebook , (20+) Facebook, (20+) Facebook

Some of you may be coming to today's episode with some skepticism or at least curiosity. Why are we talking about angels and demons? Should we bother thinking or talking about invisible creatures? Is it possibly to not be scary or weird about it?

As we'll discover today, Christians have always been concerned with angels, because angels are deeply concerned with us — with our wellbeing and our journey toward — or away from — the love and likeness of Christ.

Fear not: today will not include impressive or spooky stories, or anecdotes of spiritual experiences. Instead, we focus on the goodness of God, the hospitality of heaven, and how the holy angels help us along the way. And little about how the naughty angels try to trip us up, how we can catch them at it, and the gifts God gives us to resist their tricks. No campfire stories. Just some good doctrine, simple advice, and a lot of Thomas Aquinas.

Our guest today is the Rev. James Dominic Brent, OP. Fr. James is a Dominican Friar who lives and teaches at the Dominican House of Studies in Washington, D.C. He is the author of The Father’s House: Discovering Our Home in the Trinity. He frequently lectures for the Thomistic Institute, and appears on their YouTube series Aquinas 101 as well as on the Dominican podcast Contemplata, A Podcast for Contemplative Souls.You can find more of his work on Soundcloud. 

Now forget your harps and halos for just a second. From the Desert Fathers to alcoholic's anonymous, we're going to find out about those blessed creatures who were made to be busy for God on our behalf. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Today it takes us to the virtues, ways to live at peace with ourselves and others through the exercise of certain habits.

The cardinal virtues are four specific means and wisdoms for flourishing that God makes available to humans universally, to discern "the good" and experience some of that goodness in our social and material lives.

How do humans share life across divides? How do we make the life of grace visible, and how does God make it visible through us, and accessible to others, even in tricky times? And how are the cardinal virtues a time-tested paradigm for knowing and sharing, through prudence, justice, temperance, and fortitude, God's goodness in our life together?

Dr. Elisabeth Rain Kincaid is our guest today. She is the Director of the Institute for Faith and Learning at Baylor University, where she also serves as associate professor of ethics, faith, and culture. Her first book, Law From Below, was recently published with Georgetown University Press. Her research interests include questions at the intersection of theology, business, and law, as well as natural law theory, virtue ethics, socially responsible investment, Anglican and Catholic Social Teaching, and questions of human flourishing.

We hope you enjoy the conversation. 

Read Elisabeth's book.

Register for The Human Pilgrimage conference, where Dr. Elisabeth Kincaid will be one of our keynotes.

Everything within creation

Speaks of Jesus’ Incarnation.

Likewise too, his saving Passion

Is shown forth in all that’s fashioned.

The Word God spoke before all ages

Can be traced in Scripture’s pages.

The Bible tells one vast narration

from Genesis to Revelation.

So begins "Figural Graffiti," a delightful instructional poem by theology professor Joe Mangina. "Figural Graffiti" is sincere and playful, and it's a little ditty on the method and gift of reading scripture figurally. We discuss today this ancient and lively method of reading Scripture, what we lose when we lose the knack of figural reading, and what freedom figural reading gives us as disciples and Christian leaders.

Dr. Joseph Mangina is professor of theology at Wycliffe College, Toronto. His scholarly interests include ecclesiology, ecumenism, sacramental theology, and theological interpretation of Scripture. For several years in the 2000s he served on the Anglican-Roman Catholic dialogue commission for Canada. Among other books, he's written two on Karl Barth, the Revelation commentary for the Brazos Theological Commentary series, and most recently, he's co-edited a book called Figural Reading and the Fleshly God: The Theology of Ephraim Radner.

Read "Figural Graffiti" on the Living Church's free online journal, Covenant.

Check out Joe's new book.

Register for the Living Church's upcoming conference.

In this episode, host Amber Noel gets really nosy. Here are three couples willing to come on the podcast and talk honestly about their clergy couple marriages – what makes them tick, what ticks them off, and how they've learned to value differences, protect each other, and learn grace in community.

In this episode we'll hear from:

• The Rev. Tish Harrison Warren and her husband, the Rev. Dr. Jonathan Warren Pagán. Tish is a priest in the Anglican Church in North America. She is the author of Liturgy of the Ordinary: Sacred Practices in Everyday Life and Prayer in the Night: For Those Who Work, or Watch, or Weep. She’s written for The New York Times and Christianity Today. Jonathan is planter and rector of Immanuel Anglican Church in Austin, Texas. Together they cowrote the book, Advent: The Season of Hope.
• The Rev. Dr. Lilian and the Rt. Rev. Given Gaula: Bishop Given has been Bishop of Kondoa, Tanzania, since 2012. Mother Lilian serves in various roles in the diocese of Kondoa, including teaching at the theological college and running a ministry for women’s empowerment.
• The Rev. Melissa and the Very Rev. Randy Hollerith. Melissa has 30 years of ordained ministry under her belt, much of it serving schools. For the past two years, she has been the upper school Chaplain and teacher at St. Albans School in Washington. Randy has served as the Dean of Washington National Cathedral since 2016, and was rector of St. James’s Episcopal Church in Richmond, Virginia, for 16 years.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

If you haven't yet, register now for TLC's Human Pilgrimage Conference.

If you listen to this podcast, you probably do. 

Today we're not talking about the Lord's supper, but the longing for and practical work toward Christian unity. What does this have to do with the average Christian? Or the average pastor trying to focus on local ministry? How do Anglicans care about (and struggle with) Christian unity especially? What the heck is a Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral?

Joining us to discuss is Dr. Christopher Wells. Christopher is Director of Unity, Faith and Order for the Anglican Communion. He oversees the Communion’s ecumenical relations and serves as secretary of the Inter-Anglican Standing Commission on Unity, Faith and Order (IASCUFO). For 13 years, Christopher was executive director and publisher of the Living Church Foundation.

Here are some key terms we'll learn about today, answering some of our questions above:

The ecumenical movement or ecumenism 

The Lambeth Conference 

Lambeth Conference 1920 

Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral 

Vatican II 

Primate 

Today we'll learn how any ecumenical work must serve the life of the average Christian, or it's no good. We'll find out why ecumenical work is putting Christopher more in touch with his evangelical side. And we'll ponder why "Anglican" exists in the first place. Is it to tickle our "via media" fancies, or to become another religious option? Or might we learn to serve Christian unity so well that one day, maybe, Anglicans work themselves out of a job?

We hope you enjoy the conversation. 

Read the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral.

A few other cool documents on Christian unity: 

• http://www.christianunity.va/content/unitacristiani/en/news/2024/2024-06-13-il-vescovo-di-roma-nuovo-documento-dpuc.html
• https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2024/06/13/bishop-rome-study-document-dicastery-promoting-christian-unity-248153
• https://www.vaticannews.va/en/vatican-city/news/2024-06/rethinking-the-primacy-in-an-ecumenical-sense.html?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2RbXk-L3mXpkT9WZKyqQF3HbsPaG-nKdSsWQosOMSe18VOSpCazmy3u1o_aem_p7a_pInr-MDXSnjpgtFhJA

Register for the Human Pilgrimage conference. 

It's funny how the gospel unveils and then veils itself to us in seasons of our ministry and preaching. There are so many times when there's more than we can capture. And then other times it feels lilke the well runs dry on the same passage we've come to for years. But this "dryness" may just be an invitation to dig in a new direction or to a new depth.

Today we've got a fascinating dispatch from the Rev. Dr. Sarah Hinlicky Wilson, a Lutheran pastor in Tokyo who got tired of trying to find something new to preach about the Transfiguration. Sarah trusted the abundance of God's word to not return void, and kept digging, and that digging turned into a whole book about what she found: Seven Ways of Looking at the Transfiguration.

Turns out, the Transfiguration is the center point of the Gospel of Mark. Turns out, St. Paul is very interested in the Transfiguration, and the Transfiguration is very interested in Jewish pilgrimage festivals and the end times. And the Gospel of John might keep the Transfiguration on the DL for a very good reason. 

Today we'll learn why we've got two of these feasts a year, where apples and grapes come in, and a little about ancient laundering practices — all just in time, maybe, to give you some inspiration for you own festal sermon.

Sarah is Associate Pastor at Tokyo Lutheran Church and the Founder of Thornbush Press. She has written, edited, and contributed to numerous books of both theology and fiction and has published hundreds of articles. She hosts the podcasts Queen of the Sciences, Sarah Hinlicky Wilson Stories, and The Disentanglement Podcast, and writes the e-newsletter Theology & a Recipe. 

They may not be "whiter than a fuller could bleach them," but get ready for some brilliant insights nevertheless. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Singer-songwriters Leila Way and Ryan Flanigan join us from Resurrection South Austin to play some new tunes for us and talk about the intersections of music with church life, family life, and life with God.

Between sets we'll chat about the stories behind the songs, and about what art might teach ministry, especially about inviting others into the pain and the gift of faith in Christ.

Leila Way is a songwriter in Austin, Texas, writing and recording songs for the Church. She likes to set Scripture and heartfelt prayers to music.

Ryan Flanigan serves as music director at Resurrection Church South Austin and as theological artist-in-residence at Baylor University. Ryan is also the founder of Liturgical Folk, which seeks to create beautiful and believable sacred music for the Church and the world. 

Leila's songs are from her new album, You Don't Carry It Alone, and Ryan's are from his new collaboration with musician Jon Guerra, Three Gifts.

Set list: 

• "You Don't Carry It Alone" - Leila 
• "Walking On" - Leila 
• "Faith" - Ryan 
• "Hope" - Ryan 
• "Prayer for Unity" - Leila 
• "Be Still My Soul" - Ryan and Leila 

We hope you enjoy the conversation, and the music. 

Special thanks to Michael Way and Resurrection South Austin for their technical assistance on this episode.

Read Ryan's interview with Leila.

Visit Leila's website.

Visit Ryan's website.

Join us at the God at 'I' Level photography exhibit.

Join us at the God at 'I' Level photography exhibit. 

Progressive and conservative: do ever the twain meet? What are safe spaces across current divides on topics that matter? And, when we do talk across divides, how do we get below the surface?

Today's Conversation Across Difference is about a hot topic in the Episcopal Church, and nearly every church right now: human sexuality and marriage. How do we engage a topic in which each side believes this isn't just about difference of opinion, but, as one of our guests points out today, also about sin. 

Can say what we really believe and stay at the same table? If we don't condone one another's beliefs, even about self, love, or family life, can we still love and respect one another? If so, what are the difficulties? And what unexpected discoveries might be made if we keep talking?

The Episcopal Church has a Communion Across Difference Task Force that talks about these things, prays together, and takes action to preserve safe spaces for these diagloues within the church. Two guests join us today, both priests in the Episcopal Church, members of the task force, and friends. The Rev. Dr. Jordan Hylden is our guest who affirms Christian marriage as the union of male and female, and the Rev. Kelli Joyce is our guest who affirms Christian marriage regardless of gender. They join us today to describe their work together.

Wherever you're coming from, I hope this episode helps you to have more fruitful, honest relationships with others with whom you disagree. 

The Rev. Kelli Joyce is a priest of the Diocese of Arizona, currently living and ministering in the Diocese of Tennessee. She is a candidate for the Ph.D. in Theological Studies at Vanderbilt University.

The Rev. Dr. Jordan Hylden is vice rector at Episcopal Church of the Ascension in Lafayette, Louisiana. Jordan has served churches in South Carolina and Texas, and also as canon theologian and vocations director for the Diocese of Dallas.

Our executive director, Matthew Olver, also joined us as co-host.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Listen to our first Conversation Across Difference, Episode 102. 

Join us at the God at 'I' Level photography exhibit. 

Should Christians be politically active, and if so, how? Is the political sphere and its options a place of anxiety and ceaseless activity that should be avoided? Is it a place of possibility to "bring heaven to earth"? Does it have value as a place of failure and limitation? And what do politics have to do with loving neighbors, worshipping God, or writing letters to our children? 

Much -- perhaps. And maybe most effectively in the spheres that are smallest, least ambitious, and closest to home. 

Today we talk with the Rev. Dr. Ephraim Radner about his new book, Mortal Goods: Reimagining Christian Political Duty. We'll discuss how our daily, imperfect lives and the mortal goods that make them up can help us define and limit the scope of Christian political vision and action. If our hope does not rest in this world, how are we then freed to take care in this world, and take care of this world, with sobriety, joy, and thankfulness? 

Ephraim is professor emeritus of historical theology at Wycliffe College, Toronto. His range of ministerial experience includes ministry and teaching in Burundi, Haiti, inner-city Cleveland, Connecticut, and Colorado. He's the author of several books including Mortal Goods, which we discuss today, A Time to Keep, A Brutal Unity, and The End of the Church. He is married to the Rev. Annette Brownlee and they are the parents of Hannah and Isaac.

Hold that NPR newsfeed for just a minute. We're going to step back to ancient Israel to remember what exactly God asks of human beings. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Register for The Human Pilgrimage conference. 

According to the Rev. Canon Stephanie Spellers, you bet. There is very much a way for Episcopalians to be active evangelists. It's not about being selling vacuum cleaners, and it's not about building it and they will come. You don't even have to leave your Episcopal hat behind. But you may need to be willing to lay aside some preconceptions.

Today we'll pop in on a conversation with Canon Stephanie, who is basically the current evangelist in residence and evagelism teacher for the whole Episcopal Church. We talk about how she came to the Episcopal Church, and how she came to have the heart she does for wanderers and seekers, and how discovering Jesus in every step of every person's spiritual journey is part and parcel of the Anglican way. 

Stephanie serves as Canon to Presiding Bishop Michael B. Curry and spearheads Episcopal efforts around evangelism, racial reconciliation and creation care. Her newest books are The Church Cracked Open: Disruption, Decline and New Hope for Beloved Community and an updated 15th anniversary edition Radical Welcome: Embracing God, The Other and the Spirit of Transformation. She has served as Chaplain to the Episcopal House of Bishops, taught mission and evangelism at General Theological Seminary, and served as a canon in the Diocese of Long Island. We'll talk about more of her story in the episode today and include a link in the show notes to learn more about her recent work.

Now shod those feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace, tie the laces tight. But stay loose. Today we're going to drop the E Word, then pick it up and run with it. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

See more of Canon Stephanie's recent work.

Register for The Human Pilgrimage conference.

Learn more about Steve Prince's work.

Learn more about Jessica Hooten Wilson's work.

A disgruntled white southern intellectual named Walter lives on his family's farm. They all think his fancy learning makes him good for nothing. On top of that, Walter thinks he's dying. Walter decides to pretend, through a penpal relationship with a social justice activist, that he is Black. A story unfolds from the deceit. This is a Flannery O'Connor story that you have probably never read, and we'll discuss it today on the podcast.

Unlike Flannery's other works, a conversion and baptism come early in this story, and the rest of the book, which was never finished, was intended to ask, "What next?" Instead of the one fell swoop of the Holy Ghost readers are used to, what does the radical work of grace look like over time?

Fragments of the unfinished novel have just been released, along with context-setting essays and commentary, by literary scholar and writer, Jessica Hooten Wilson. The book is called Why Do the Heathen Rage?, and it is further illuminated with powerful artwork by artist Steve Prince.

The story fragments are fascinating, but the gloss Steve and Jessica provide help us unpack what's going on with Flannery. Sorry megafan, but she was not a saint. And in this broken text, we actually watch her come up against her limits as a white southerner of her times and as a writer. What was she doing? What, maybe, was God doing? And what can we learn from her today? 

We discuss O'Connor's work, intersections with Malcolm X and James Baldwin, what stories do to harm or heal, and what art and artistic collaborations make possible. 

Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson is the Fletcher Jones Endowed Chair of Great Books at Pepperdine University. She is the author or editor of several books, including Flannery O’Connor’s Why Do the Heathen Rage? A Behind-the-Scenes Look at a Work in Progress, Reading for the Love of God, and two award-winning books of literary scholarship: The Scandal of Holiness, and Giving the Devil His Due: Demonic Authority in the Fiction of Flannery O’Connor and Fyodor Dostoevsky.

Steve A. Prince is a mixed media artist, master printmaker, lecturer, educator, and art evangelist with his MFA in Printmaking and Sculpture from Michigan State University. He is the Director of Engagement and Distinguished Artist in Residence at the Muscarelle Museum at William and Mary. A native of New Orleans, he currently resides in Williamsburg, Virginia. 

Now pour yourself a big ol' glass of sweet tea and hold on to your rocking chair. This exploration of Flannery O'Connor won't be what you're used to. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Today's is a short and very special conversation captured on the fly at the Episcopal Parish Network Conference in Houston, Texas, with Dr. Suhaila Tarazi.

If you haven't heard of Suhaila, then you have certainly heard of her workplace. She is the director of the Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza, which was recently in the news for a bomb that fell in their parking lot.

How did Suhaila receive a call from God, three times, to direct the hospital? What is the state of the hospital now? What is she praying for? And how has her friendship with Nicholas served a mutual mission for flourishing life for Arab and Jewish neighbors?

Special thanks to Joe Swimmer, La'Zendra Danforth, and their team, for carving out a space to record in a very busy conference center. Thanks to Nicholas Porter for arranging the conversation.

Lean in for the short but sweet privilege of hearing from a woman it was an incredible honor to meet. We hope you enjoy the conversation. 

Donate to the Ahli Arab Hospital. 

Read Philip's new book, Undone.

No man is an island,

Entire of itself.

Each is a piece of the continent,

A part of the main.

If a clod be washed away by the sea,

Europe is the less.

As well as if a promontory were.

As well as if a manor of thine own

Or of thine friend's were.

Each man's death diminishes me,

For I am involved in mankind.

Therefore, send not to know

For whom the bell tolls,

It tolls for thee.

Welcome back podcast listeners. Quite a Lenten poem, eh? For Western listeners, we are in the last week of Lent before Holy Week, first week for our Eastern brethren.

Meeting here in Lententide, we thought it would be a good time for a conversation about someone who has reflected deeply on sin, suffering, pain, and the faithful presence of God. Well, two people actually. The 17th-century priest and poet, John Donne, whose famous poem we opened with, and author Philip Yancey.

The poem above is actually an excerpt from a longer work called Devotions that Donne wrote from his sickbed, in a time of plague, disorientation, and deep discouragement. Where and how did he find God with him? 

TLC had the joy of talking with Philip Yancey about his new book, a modern paraphrase of Devotions called Undone, and about Phillip's own story, particularly as it relates to a recent diagnosis of Parkinson's disease.

Philip Yancey has explored questions and mysteries of the Christian faith for decades in best-selling works such as Disappointment with God, Where is God When it Hurts?, and What’s So Amazing About Grace? Philip has written more than 25 books, and his latest release is Undone: A Modern Rendering of John Donne's Devotions. Philip and his wife live in the foothills of Colorado.

What does it mean to be human? We pay attention to our broken humanity more during Lent. And there's that phrase, when we make a mistake, "I'm only human!" 

True. But what about the glory and promise of being human? What kind of humanity we see in the pattern of Christ? How do we live now, if our destiny is to be, as the saints tell us, "raised with Christ" who is "seated at the right hand of God"?

Today we'll talk with theologian John Behr about St. Gregory of Nyssa's work, On the Human Image of God, and John's new translation of it. We'll listen in as Gregory, like the theological rock star he is, takes a melody from Plato and riffs hard, but with a Christian anthropology, and creates nothing less than an anthem to God's saving work in Jesus.

What is a human? How do humans have a special relationship with death? And how does the gospel, and especially John's gospel, peel back the curtain on what Jesus' humanity is doing for all creatures?

The Rev. Dr. John Behr is Regius Professor of Humanity at the University of Aberdeen. He previously taught at St. Vladmir's Seminary, where he served as dean from 2007-17. John is also the Metropolitan Kallistos Chair of Orthodox Theology at the Vrije Universiteit of Amsterdam and the Amsterdam Center for Orthodox Theology. 

(Finally a quick shout-out: if you're interested in this question, What does it mean to be human?, then save the date, friends! The Living Church is hosting a conference this September 26-28 in Oklahoma City entitled The Human Pilgrimage: A Conference on How to Live. We've got a beautiful slate of speakers, including Katherine Sonderegger, Amy Peeler, Victor Austin, and Graham Tomlin. Watch any Living Church space for registration coming soon.)

Now brush up on your Greek, because there will be a test on the Timaeus at the end of this. (Just kidding.) We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Check out Fr. Nate's book, Festive School.

Read Fr. Nate's article on neurodivergence in the classical classroom. 

Learn more about Trust-Based Relational Intervention (TBRI).

When trying to consider budget as well as mission and ministry, churches of many sizes offer educational service, from a small daycare to a prestigious Episcopal prep school. And these are often built on a classical school models.

Classical education refers specifically to a model of education centered on the Western classical trivium of grammar, logic, and rhetoric. If you can do a classical school well, you can provide a great education and do very well for your budget. 

But does it produce snobby kids? Put another way, does it shelter privileged kids even further, and prevent kids with disadvantages from experiencing a remarkable community of learning?

One way to negotiate this is through scholarships, or through careful intentionality in enrollment or curriculum development. But our guest today has also explored ways to make sure that kids with disabilities -- including neurodivergence -- are welcomed and integrated into a classical community. What they've discovering is an unusual model for classical education, and an unexpected ministry of healing.

My guest today is the Rev. Nathan Carr. Nate is a bi-vocational priest serving as vicar of St. John’s Oklahoma City and headmaster of The Academy of Classical Christian Studies, a multi-campus school serving 1,000 PreK-12 students across the Oklahoma City metro. He's the author of Festive School (Classical Academic Press), on the importance of festivity in Christian education. He and his wife Sarah have six children who bless their home, including kiddos with neurodivergence.

He's also written a related article on the Living Church's award-winning blog, Covenant. 

Now sharpen your pencils and warm up your singing voice. We're headed to school. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

All eyes are on the Holy Land right now, as the conflict between Hamas and Israel continues, over a hundred kidnapped Israelis still missing, over a thousand Israeli civilians dead, and tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians killed in the crossfire.

As many of you will know, the Living Church postponed a pilgrimage to the Holy Land until further notice. The name of this pilgrimage is In the Footsteps of Jesus. Today we'll be talking with someone who has walked in the footsteps of Jesus many times, as a pilgrimage leader, as well as a resident of Jerusalem. And not only in the footsteps of Jesus, but in the footsteps of Abraham and Sarah, Jacob, David, the apostles, the woman at the well, and many more ancestors in the faith, as well as citizens of the land today.

What is it about this place that people have fallen in love with for thousands of years? Why has God met so many people on its roads? What do these roads teach us, not only in human footsteps, but in the rocks and water, plants and animals along the way, about God’s presence and faithfulness? And what can we see there now, especially in time for Lent?

We enjoyed speaking about all this with the Rev. Canon Dr. Andrew D. Mayes. Andrew has served as spirituality adviser to the Diocese of Chichester and to the Diocese of Cyprus and the Gulf. He has lived several years in Jerusalem, as a theological researcher and later as director of courses of St. George’s College, of which he is an associate professor. He is the author of 16 spirituality books including the award-winning Learning the Language of the Soul, Beyond the Edge, and, most recently, Roads of Hurt and Hope: Transformative Journeys in the Holy Land. (This last book is a Lent study, and all the proceeds will go to the Anglican Diocese of Jerusalem for the rebuilding of the Anglican hospital in Gaza.) 

Tighten your hiking shoes and pack a lunch, and don’t forget, if you get a moment, to buy a souvenir. We’re going on a journey today, across time and an ancient, beloved landscape. Sometimes strenuous, sometimes quiet. Often surprising. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Check out some of our favorite episodes of the podcast.

Happy Epiphany!

I love seasons, the changes of seasons. The distinct character of each one.

Different seasons and times bring out different flavors, different inner lives of the land and landscapes. I think humans are similar. Even whole cultures. Different eras show up or play down certain shapes that human life can take, certain imaginative landscapes and possibilities.

But across space and seasons we do have one Lord. That's the crazy revelation of Epiphany. But how does this same Lord show up differently in different times and places? 

Today we'll be talking with Dr. Grace Hamman, author of the new book, Jesus Through Medieval Eyes. Grace is a writer and independent scholar of Middle English contemplative writing and poetry and hosts the literature podcast, Old Books with Grace. Jesus through Medieval Eyes is a remarkably enjoyable book. 

Jesus jousting. Jesus giving birth. Jesus as judge, lover, mother, or knight were common images for Christ in the middle ages. How might they help us in our time, heal our contemporary views of justice and judgment, love and lovers, gender and sex?

Now brush up on your middle English. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Read Jesus Through Medieval Eyes.

Learn more about the Living Church and check out some of our favorite podcast episodes.

Welcome back, podcast listeners. A happy Epiphany to you. 

Let's start off the year with a bang. This episode is from a conversation between Dr. Stanley Hauerwas and the Rev. Dr. Ephraim Radner at the Radical Vocation (RADVO) conference at Church of the Incarnation, Dallas, in September 2023.

Amber asked Stanley and Ephraim to share their responses to the conference, and it all went wonderfully off-book, deep into the territory of attention and martyrdom.

The conversation will reference other keynotes and conversations, including the Rev. Dr. Christopher Beeley on Christology, Dr. Jeremy Begbie on the Holy Spirit, Dr. John Behr on the Church, the Rev. Tish Harrison Warren on Christianity and Politics, and other panels on church unity and evangelism. 

Stanley Hauerwas is Gilbert T. Rowe Professor Emeritus of Divinity and Law at Duke Divinity School and was named "America’s Best Theologian" by Time magazine in 2001. His book, A Community of Character: Toward a Constructive Christian Social Ethic, was selected as one of the 100 most important books on religion of the 20th century.

Ephraim Radner is Professor Emeritus of Historical Theology at Wycliffe College, Toronto, and has ministered in various places, including Burundi, Haiti, inner-city Cleveland, Connecticut, and Colorado. His many books include Hope among the Fragments: The Broken Church and its Engagement of Scripture (2004) andA Time to Keep: Theology, Mortality, and the Shape of a Human Life (2016).

Learn more about the Living Church and check out some of our favorite podcast episodes.

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Welcome podcast listeners. Today we've got an episode that will lightly leap from Advent to Christmastide. We'll revisit four conversations we've had over the years: 

• James K. A. Smith on time and Immanuel
• Novelist H.C. Cross on boarding schools and world-building
• Lauren Winner on books and reading
• Amy Peeler and Wes Hill on Mother Mary

Dr. James K.A. Smith is a public philosopher and editor in chief of IMAGE journal, and author of many well-known books including You Are What You Love and How to Inhabit Time.

Heather Cross is the author of two novels, Wilberforce and Grievous.

The Rev. Dr. Lauren Winner is associate professor of Christian spirituality at Duke Divinity School and the author of many books, including Girl Meets God, A Cheerful and Comfortable Faith, andCharacteristic Damage.

The Rev. Dr. Wesley Hill and Dr. Amy Peeler are both associate professors of New Testament, Amy at Wheaton College and Wes at Western Theological Seminary.

In two weeks, we're taking a break from the podcast (Merry Christmas). In 2024 we're rolling out conversations with Stanley Hauerwas and Ephraim Radner, a book chat with John Behr, an exploration of Jesus Through Medieval Eyes, a look at neurodivergence in the classical classroom, and much more. 

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In the beginning, creation. Millennia pass. Creatures alternately live peacefully then get it horribly wrong. Long genealogies. The rise of evil kings, good kings, battles and prophecies. A savior riding in on a white horse. And in between the exciting parts, lots and lots of waiting.

Is this the Bible? The spiritual life? Or The Lord of the Rings and Middle Earth legendarium? Yes. And it's chock-full of good stuff for Advent.

So is JRR Tolkien's own life. Today we'll talk with one of Tolkien's biographers, Dr. Holly Ordway. Holly is the Cardinal Francis George Professor of Faith and Culture at the Word on Fire Institute, visiting professor of apologetics at Houston Christian University, and a subject editor for the Journal of Inklings Studies. She has two books you should know about: the award-winning Tolkien’s Modern Reading: Middle-earth Beyond the Middle Ages (Word on Fire Academic, 2021) and her newest book, Tolkien’s Faith: A Spiritual Biography (Word on Fire Academic, 2023).  

Advent is a thick time. Within that tapestry we find suffering and grief, waiting and faithfulness, the mysterious timing of providence -- and much to learn from Middle Earth.

But we also get glimpses of what it means to live good life. Good food, a sense of humor, and divine grace are hidden inside Advent, too, if we have humble enough eyes to find them.

Whether Advent is for you like a cozy Hobbit hole full of goodies, or Denethor's grim tower looking out on an uncertain future, or some trippy place in between that I cannot imagine, we hope you enjoy the conversation.

Make an Advent donation to the Living Church.

Get 84% off a gift subscription to The Living Church

Check out No Small Endeavor, hosted by Lee C. Camp.

Who knew that a Southern mother would help today's guest hone the gift of gab for the sake of others?

Today you'll hear my conversation with Dr. Lee C. Camp, about the art of conversation. I'm excited to share this, especially with those who talk, listen, teach, preach, or give counsel for a living. How do we connect more meaningfully in our conversations, both on and off the clock?

Lee Camp is the host of the podcast No Small Endeavor, exploring what it means to live a good life, which features best-selling authors, philosophers, scientists, artists, psychologists, theologians and politicians. I highly recommend you check out his podcast. Lee is also an award-winning teacher and professor of theology and ethics at Lipscomb University in Nashville, Tennessee. 

He and I dig into:

• What we can learn from late night talk show hosts. 
• How being funny can both help and hinder deeper connection. 
• Why practicing prudent vulnerability is a way to help everyone, including yourself, open up to the possibilities of hearing an unexpected truth.

Thanksgiving is coming up. Family gatherings can be a difficult place to keep conversation fresh and listening lively. Hopefully this will help you discover some new possibilities there as well. 

Finally, consider bringing a bottle of wine to the Living Church Podcast Thanksgiving table: give today to support a studio space for us. $10 a month, or any amount you choose, even a one-time gift. We are surely grateful.

You can also leave a review for us on Spotify or Apple podcasts.

Now, whether you like to gab or stay quiet, whether you tend toward control freak or deer in the headlights, we're all invited to learn the art of conversation, and to join every conversation the Lord brings our way. We hope you enjoy this one.

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Check out No Small Endeavor, hosted by Lee C. Camp.

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The visions of Julian of Norwich came to her 650 years ago this May. Claire Gilbert's new novel, I, Julian, is a fictional autobiography about the life and visions of Julian. We'll be discussing the book today with its author and discovering why and how she would write such a boldly imaginative book from the perspective of one of Anglicanism's most beloved figures.

We'll learn a bit about the actual woman we know as Julian, and talk about what life might have looked like in her time, in an age of tight-knit community, mystery plays, and mystical texts, as well as church division, plague, and tectonic societal shifts. We'll also hear about what it's like to inhabit such a powerful voice for so many years of research and writing, and what changed in Claire's life as she wrote the book.

Before I tell you a little more about Claire, I want to thank those of you who have jumped in to support a podcast studio so we can keep bringing you conversations like this at a high quality with fantastic guests. I want to personally thank three new supporters: Sharon, Roger, and John. Join the ranks of these good folks by clicking the link in the show notes and help us bring onto the podcast people like Dr. Claire Gilbert, our guest today.

Claire is founding director of the Westminster Abbey Institute for ethics and public life. She has worked for the Archbishops' Council of the Church of England as policy advisor in medical ethics and environmental issues and is a lay Canon at St Paul's Cathedral. She co-founded the St Paul's Institute in 2003. She has authored many books. Her latest, the novel I, Julian (Hodder & Stoughton), is available now.

If you'd like to win a free copy of the book, you can enter our TLC Book Club contest. Just go to livingchurch.org and click the popup to download a free study guide and be entered to win a free copy of I, Julian.

Now hold on to your wimple. We're headed out on a beautiful and sometimes intense literary journey -- which is also a journey of the heart. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Last chance to join us in NYC for Preaching in a Post-Christian Age.

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If you like a good underdog story, you’ll like today’s episode. And if you pastor a small church or you’re new to a parish that’s on the struggle bus, you might like it even more. Today we’re in search of growth. In Search of Growth is a series we’ve been doing in the magazine, highlighting stories of where God’s been at work in ways that increase health and numbers in local Episcopal and Anglican churches. 

This summer, as many of you know, we hosted a pilgrimage to England. What I’m sure you don’t know is that Amber then took some vacation time in Wales, where she stayed with the Rev. Dr. Mark Clavier, a vicar in Brecon who we’ve had on before to talk about Christian ecology and so-called “Celtic” Christianity, and his wife, Dr. Sarah Ward Clavier, who joined us for a Halloween episode a few years back to talk about the gruesome details of clergy wills.

One of Amber's favorite Welsh adventures was getting to know the church Mark pastors, St Mary’s in Brecon. St Mary’s is very old parish, which after precipitous decline, has found new life. After dwindling to 16, it’s now a rapidly growing congregation of about 60, lively, warm, very active in their community, and very, very traditional in their worship. In a place where more evangelical styles tend to see the growth, this is intriguing.

Today we tell their story, which reminds us of a certain Apple+ TV series: a British community at a low point; a cheerful, mustachioed American showing up, warming hearts, and launching unexpected tactics. Yes, we're talking about Ted Lasso, which is, in fact, Fr. Mark’s nickname among some of his parishioners. 

Fr. Mark coming is not the end of the story— and it’s really not the beginning either. So pull up a chair, grab a Welsh cake. We hope you enjoy the conversations.

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Welcome to a special coffee hour edition of the podcast. As many of you will know we have a new executive director and publisher over here at the Living Church, the Rev. Dr. Matthew Olver. We took some time to talk about how he got to TLC. 

Matthew is an Episcopal priest who has served widely in the Episcopal Church in diocesan, national, and international capacities. Like the eighth editor of The Living Church, H. Boone Porter, he is also a liturgical scholar who taught at Nashotah House Theological Seminary for nearly a decade (2014-23). He's currently also an assistant priest at Zion Episcopal Church in Oconomowoc, Wisconsin. 

If you keep listening, you will hear the following:

• How our new executive director stays caffeinated.
• The recognizability of the Church across the ages and why preservation is a dynamic thing.
• Why a seminary professor would want to run a magazine.
• Why we have a blog and what it's doing.
• What he likes about Living Church events.
• And why, when tourists are snapping photos of church architecture, Matthew stands there reading Augustine.

From Matthew's office in Milwaukee to Wheaton to Rome to Ravenna to Oklahoma City and back, we hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Why do we go on pilgrimage? And why do Christians go on pilgrimage to England? Today is Part 2 of an exploratory episode. Warm up your tea, study your map, and head out with us!

Make a Pilgrimage to the Holy Land with the Living Church

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While working on Part 2 of the English Pilgrimage episode, TLC had a conversation we couldn't wait to share with you. Bonus episode!

How do people in leadership, in high-performance vocations, get the spiritual and emotional care they need? Who do pastors go to for counsel, friendship, to confess, to get their most uncensored, hot off the press thoughts and feelings off their chests? Where do they go to get loving correction? And when no one is readily available, how can they care for their inner lives in the meantime? These are some of the questions we put to our guest today, the Rev. Dr. Matthew Hoskinson. 

Matthew is an ordained minister, a cancer survivor, a marathon runner, and a certified coach. After 15 years of pastoral ministry mostly in NYC, he now works for Redeemer City to City as the director of the City Ministry Program, a transformative urban education for the next generation of Christian leaders. He provides coaching, spiritual direction, and mentoring for leaders and ministers across the country. (And he will be one of the speakers at our preaching conference in November in New York City!)

We won't even bill your insurance for this. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Learn more about Matthew.

Why do we go on pilgrimage? For an educational vacation? To get in touch with the past? To walk barefoot to a shrine or encounter a saint? To ask for a miracle? And why, if Christians are going to go on pilgrimage anywhere, do they go on pilgrimage to England?

Yes, it’s a magical land of meat pies, forests, fairies, and saints with a distinctly British flavor. How do our expectations of England, especially for Anglophiles, meet an answer in the actual place? 

To go on a pilgrimage is about expectation. In the middle ages, when pilgrims would come from all over Europe to the shrine of St. Edward the Confessor in Westminster Abbey, they would kneel inside a cool cavity carved out of the brilliantly-decorated stone, to get as close to Edward’s bones as they could. Before leaving they’d chip off a tiny bit of mosaic. We go on pilgrimage to stand somewhere in the broken and colorful light of Christian history, and to take away souvenirs, be they answered prayers or vintage prayer books. And we certainly bring expectations.

Today’s episode is a story about expectations and souvenirs – the hoped for, and the found – on an English pilgrimage with a diverse set of American Anglicans. Anglophiles beware. You may get more than you bargained for.

Join our pilgrimage to the Holy Land.

Youth group. Sunday school. Church camp. What's your reaction to these words? Do you get a nostaglic smile on your face? Do you have a mild cardiac infarction? Whether you've led a youth ministry or not, we've all been teens, and many, many of us have memories associated with teen formation in different Christian contexts. From pies in the face for Jesus, to inductive Bible studies, to folk music and popcorn prayer, there have been many ways to approach ministry to young people. Do we get really serious, down to the no-funny-business of Christian discipleship and life transformation? Or do we hang out with pizza and some games, and pray, with a lot of grace, and no pressure, that something happens, eventually, God-wise?  

Turns out, ministry to teens is about sensing how to strike a wise balance, and it's a lot about our own security and maturity as a Christian adults. Today we'll talk about: the importance of the heart and feelings in teen catechesis; how to engage teens emotionally without making it all about feelings; how to invite questions that drive into the faith rather than away from it; how we can have confidence and clarity without harshness; and why we should love the Bible more than good behavior. 

Taking us to this magical land of youth ministry is Melina Luna Smith. Melina is executive director of Storymakers, a not-for-profit creative studio that designs imaginative resources for kids and teens, including Bible- and creed-immersive zines. She is deep in lay ministry at the Parish of Calvary St. George’s in New York City, and loves working at the intersections of design, beauty, and imagination for the good of communities and the kingdom of God.

If you like this conversation, join us at Calvary St. George's for our preaching conference in New York this November, for a refresher and refreshing course in communicating God's Word. You might even get to meet Melina. (She happens to be married to the rector.)

Now put on your most normal-looking mom jeans and grab your Bible. It's time to be exactly yourself with young people and share the gospel in a real and lasting way. It's possible. Maybe not even that complicated. We hope you enjoy the conversation. 

Check out Storymakers.

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God loves our bodies, and God wants to engage us and delight us, every bit of us, in worship of him. How do we know God loves our bodies? And if Jesus' ministry was so concerned with bodies, why have Christians been so attracted to gnosticism? How can God's nonverbal communication skills help us with conflict? How do our bodies belong in worship, how do we know what to do with them? Where do we get the idea the quiet and stillness always mean reverence, and when might we need to shake that up?

We welcome the Rev. Dr. W. David O. Taylor onto the show. David is associate professor of theology and culture at Fuller Theological Seminary, and has been an artist, a pastor, and a pastor to artists. As an Anglican priest, he has lectured on the arts, from Thailand to South Africa. In 2016 he produced a short film on the psalms with Bono and Eugene Peterson. You can find that film, his several books on theology, the arts, and worship, and collaborations with his artist wife, Phaedra, at wdavidotaylor.com. 

Today we'll be riffing on his work represented in his latest book, A Body of Praise: Understanding the Role of Our Physical Bodies in Worship.

And you can find a review of his book in our latest issue of the magazine, August 2023. Subscribe now at livingchurch.org to enjoy that issue digitally today. 

Register for Preaching in a Post-Christian Age. 

Learn more about David Taylor's work.

Join us in the Holy Land in 2024

Today we are headed to the Republic of Texas to talk to the new rector of Church of the Incarnation in Dallas. He shared time with us from his new office to chat about inter-Anglican relationships and what he sees as signs of hope, how bread and butter daily ministry is both the past and future of the Church, and what gifts Anglican spirituality offers particularly to our moment. We also talk about how being influenced by other Christian traditions can shape the way we embrace our own and can help us be present as fruitful, non-anxious presences in the body of Christ.

Before becoming rector of Incarnation, the Rev. Dr. Christopher Beeley served as the Director of the Anglican Episcopal House of Studies and the Jack and Barbara Bovender Professor of Theology, Anglican Studies and Ministry at Duke Divinity School. Before joining the Duke faculty, he taught for 16 years at Yale Divinity School. The author of several books, Christopher regularly consults on leadership and program development and speaks nationally and internationally on Christian theology, spirituality, and church leadership. 

Now find your biggest cowboy hat, and your copy of Julian of Norwich or Jeremy Taylor, and settle in. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Emails. To-do lists. Doughnuts and coffee. In ministry, there are so many details, ordinary details, to attend to. We know they matter. But when ordinary details pile up, it may be time to step back and say, Something's gotta give. In Acts we have this wonderful story of the apostles realizing there was too much on their plates, and re-organizing the church with a group of deacons. Moral of that story? Delegation, efficiency, and task management can let you do more of the right things in the right way. And they can let the Holy Spirit do more, too.

Today's episode is part 2 of an episode we aired last year with Fr. Aaron Zimmerman of St. Alban's Episcopal Church on executive functioning as a pastor. One of our listeners wrote in with some follow-up questions that I thought were great, about emails, time management, delegation, and stress. So I invited Aaron back on the show, along with the Rev. Canon Kimberley Pfeiler, who also knows a lot about keeping it together, staying sane, and trusting God when you're the one in charge.

Fr. Aaron Zimmerman is rector at St. Alban's Episcopal Church in Waco, Texas. He is past President of the Board of Directors of Mockingbird Ministries and is currently the Dean for the Northwest Convocation of the Diocese of Texas, and co-hosts the Same Old Song lectionary podcast with the Rev. Jacob Smith.

The Rev. Canon Kimberley Pfeiler is a church planter at St. Luke Medical District in Dallas, Texas, and ombudsman for the Diocese of Churches for the Sake of Others, where she develops training and policies to prevent abuse in the church. She serves as the chairman of the board for the Matthew 25 Inititative for Justice and Mercy, and as a bi-vocational priest, she is also vice president at NowVertical Group, which provides advanced analytics for enterprise clients.

Whether you're putting down your to-do list for a moment, kicking up your feet on your desk with a second cup of joe, or multitasking like a boss while you listen, we hope you enjoy the conversation.

• Explore the Superhuman email training program
• Explore Calendly
• Explore Brenee Brown's work on leadership
• Explore the Calm app, Headspace app, or Tapping app
• Check out The One Thing: Surprisingly Simple Truth Behind Extraordinary Results

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Join us in the Holy Land in 2024

It is a delight to be with you in the first week of Pentecost.

Many of you are artists, musicians, writers, lovers of beauty, literature, good poetry, a good pint or pipe. The combination of art, beauty, and Christian life is a fascinating and life-giving one, and one that's closely related to the work of Pentecost: the renewal of creation, and the bringing of everything good into God's own eternity.

Today's guest is poet, priest, musician and motocyclist, Malcolm Guite. Though we had him on to talk about the threads of relationship between poetry and Pentecost, our conversation took us to many unplanned places, while still returning, interestingly, to the themes of Pentecost: language and breath, moving from isolation to integration, and how the creation itself, "undersprung" with music, longs to be tuned back to the note that Jesus played perfectly, once for all. 

The Rev. Dr. Malcolm Guite is an English poet, singer-songwriter, Anglican priest, and scholar. His research interests include the intersection of religion and the arts, the works of J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and Owen Barfield, and British poets such as Samuel Taylor Coleridge. He was a Bye-Fellow and chaplain of Girton College, Cambridge, and associate chaplain of St. Edward King and Martyr, Cambridge. 

Please check out his books of poetry, they are rich mines of devotion and enjoyment, as well as his books on faith and theology (see the link below).

As we go from the Tower of Babel to Beowulf, from Keats and Shelley to singing in tongues, we hope you enjoy the conversation.

Check out books by Malcolm Guite

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David Bentley Hart, that peppery, unyielding Eastern Orthodox theologian, has two brothers: one is a Church of England priest, another is an American Anglo-Catholic priest. Wouldn't you love to be at that Thanksgiving table?

You may have heard it said that families are some of God's most radical ecumenical experiments. Today we have two brothers, situated in denominations that have historically been in tension, even opposition.

Inter-Anglican tensions have a long and complex history. But most of us have not lived through the whole history. We just begin where we are. So what do we make of the church we're given? And how do we navigate in the broken pieces, especially as parish priests?

Today we sit down with two brothers, both priests, one in the Episcopal Church, one in the Anglican Church in North America. They were kind enough to come on the podcast to share about their journeys, their discernment into the priesthood, and also to field Amber's questions -- not always softballs -- about Christian unity, the episcopacy, prayer books, communion with Canterbury, and how it affects their ministries. What does Christian wisdom entail in divided times?: a question many of us are asking. Let's start at the dinner table and see what happens.

Our guests are the Rev. Jonathan and the Rev. David Beadle. Jon is rector of All Saints, Conroe, Texas, in the Western Gulf Coast Diocese of the Anglican Church in North America, and David is curate at St. Matthew's Episcopal Cathedral in Dallas.

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If you're new to the podcast, welcome, we are glad you're here at the Living Church Podcast, the only one of its kind created for pastors, teachers, interested lay people in the Episcopal Church, Anglican Communion, and beyond to equip, encourage, and entertain you so that your calling in God's Church feels a little easier, a little braver, a little more companioned.

Today we are kicking off the month of May, traditionally known as Mary's month, with a trip to Kenya. Specifically, we are going to the office of Dr. Esther Mombo at St. Paul's University in Limuru, where she hosted us, along with one of her dissertation advisees, for a conversation on women in ministry in Kenya, and what their journeys have looked like.

The struggles women in ministry have are common are remarkably similar across cultural contexts. We will talk about finding a call to church leadership, taking the bold step of telling others you've got a call, and then going through training, discernment, money questions and job openings, all while wondering how to balance dating, friendships, marriage, and motherhood. We will also discover just how important grandmas really are.

Esther Mombo is associate professor in theology at St. Paul's University in Limuru, Kenya, with a specialty in church history, theologies from women’s perspectives, and interfaith relations. She works closely with the Programme for Christian and Muslim relations in Africa and is a member of the Circle of Concerned African Women Theologians. She has previously served on the Inter-Anglican Doctrinal and Theological Commission.

Joining Esther is Makena Jackline. Makena is a doctoral student in the department of religious studies at St. Paul's University, in African theology and philosophy, with a concentration on gender and theology. She also serves as a youth minister and mentor in the Methodist Church.

Now buckle up for a ride down the still-pretty-bumpy path of women's discernment and ministry calling. As we will see, where God calls, he always shows the way. We hope you enjoy the conversation. 

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The Rev. Dr. Amy Peeler is associate professor of New Testament at Wheaton College and associate rector at St. Mark’s Episcopal Church in Geneva, Ill. Author of Women and the Gender of God, “You Are My Son”: The Family of God in the Epistle to the Hebrews, and co-author of Hebrews: An Introduction and Study Guide. She is a member of the Institute for Biblical Research, Society of Biblical Literature, and a Fellow with the Center for Pastor Theologians. 

Interviewing Amy is the Rev. Dr. Wesley Hill, associate professor of New Testament at Western Theological Seminary and scripture scholar at Church of the Incarnation, Dallas.

Check out Amy's book, Women and the Gender of God

Meditating on the Passion, on the Lord's suffering for us, we often recall times and places of other suffering -- in our own hearts, our lives, the lives of others. Several weeks ago, I was introduced to a woman who has seen what it's like for God to bear witness to himself in the life and sufferings of his people in profound ways across borders: borders of nationality and religious tradition; across the lines of sinner and saint, priest and prostitute. These stories are about some of God's people living at the border of Mexico and the U.S., and how a New Mexico photographer and writer found herself, over and over, involved in the work, the suffering, the questions and prayers of folks in a small town called Palomas. These stories are also about how God works in and through the wounds of our lives as we meet very similar wounds in our neighbors. How do the marks of violence and pain become doors to grace?

My guest is Victoria Tester. Victoria is a Third Order Franciscan and a member of St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Coleman, Texas. She is a poet and playwright and a recipient of awards that include an Academy of American Poets prize and a Willa Cather Literary Award. She has also worked as a photographer and founded the San Isidro Bean Project which, in a time of famine, made over a million meals possible in cooperation with a family farm.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Welcome to the final episode of Lent in 2023. We are going to hear from 7 guests about their take on some aspect of the words of Our Lord's prayer: forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors. The forgiveness of debts -- especially as it applies to the lives of Christian leaders -- how do we make forgiveness a habit? Call for forgiveness in communities after atrocity and hurt? Cultivate forgiveness from the heart? Know when we need to offer it, especially among the daily slings and arrows of church administration, expectations, and daily drama. We'll talk about the forgiveness of ancestral wrongs, and how forgiveness is possible in the midst of social injustice. And how about forgiving literal debt? Anyone up for that? How might Jesus' shepherding of us, his gentle call to forgiveness, pervade all these areas of our lives, and gain ground for grace, and for his glory?

I had the joy of speaking to each of these guests:

• Dr. Nigel Biggar, theologian, ethicist, and author of Colonialism: A Moral Reckoning; regius professor of moral and pastoral theology at the University of Oxford; and director of the McDonald Centre for Theology, Ethics, and Public Life. 
• The Rev. Dr. Cheryl Bridges Johns, visiting professor at United Theological Seminary and director of their global Pentecostal House of Studies.
• The Rt. Rev. Dhiloraj Canagasabey, Bishop of Colombo in Sri Lanka and former Presiding Bishop of the Church of Ceylon.
• The Rev. Stephen Crawford, rector of St. Mary's Episcopal Church in Franklin, Louisiana.
• The Rt. Rev. Todd Hunter, church planter and Bishop of the Diocese of Churches for the Sake of Others in the Anglican Church in North America.
• The Rev. David Sibley, rector of St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Walla Walla, Washington, and -- I'm sorry David I had to add -- four-time Jeopardy champion.
• And the Rev. Rachel Taber-Hamilton, Rector of Trinity Episcopal Church in Everett, Washington, and Vice President of the House of Deputies of the Episcopal Church.
• 
  

Hold on tight to your purple stoles. Forgiveness can be a bumpy ride. But it's one the Lord promises to bless us and help us on.

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I was never very good at limbo. I remember repeated forced limbo games in school, on spirit days or athletics days, or the occasional picnic. The attempt to sincerely try to get as low as you could go, in front of everybody -- well, the chances of failure seemed too high for my pride. I was gangly, averse to physical embarrassment. So instead of really trying, I made a goofy show of failing. If I couldn't win, I'd make people laugh. I'd flail my arms and knock down the pole. They couldn't make me go low. My little form of protest. My little version of perfectionism.

Mockingbird Ministries director, David Zahl, has just released a book called Low Anthropology, in hopes of reaching a perfectionism-saturated Western culture with the grace and love of God. The life God has for us -- of joy, peace, and yes, righteousness, becoming better at being human, begin and subsist, first and always, in humility and a realistic view of ourselves and others. If that book could have spoken to my limbo-evading self, it might say, "Enough with the pretense dear, goofy, misguided child of God. You're going to fail. You're going to look stupid and be ridiculous. You're going to do it wrong. It's not about how low you can go. You're human -- you're already pretty low. The difference is, do you want to go through this with grace? And have some genuine laughs along the way?"

David Zahl is founder and director of Mockingbird Ministries and editor-in-chief of the Mockingbird website. David also serves on the staff of Christ Episcopal Church, Charlottesville, Virginia, as college and adult education minister. He is the author of A Mess of Help: From the Crucified Soul of Rock N’ Roll; Seculosity: How Career, Parenting, Technlogy, Food, Politics, and Romance Became Our New Religion and What To Do About It; and his newest book is, of course, Low Anthropology: The Unlikely Key to a Gracious View of Others (and Yourself).

Our interviewer is the Rev. Zac Koons, rector of St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Austin, Texas.

A word about our human plight is, through Jesus, always a word of hope. And we hope you enjoy the conversation.

Check out Low Anthropology: The Unlikely Key to a Gracious View of Others (and Yourself).

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My guest today is the Rev. Dr. Esau McCaulley, has just released a brief, readable, and very wise guide to the season of Lent. And I'm looking forward to sharing our conversation with you.

We talked about our own journeys into discovering Lent and the church seasons. We wrestle with the relationship between Lenten practices and spiritual maturity, such as the dangers of relying on ritual, as well as the dangers of running from it.

How do we discern sin in an anxiety-ridden, shame-saturated, fearful world? Is there a relationship between personal fasting and social justice? If your car breaks down close to a church, should you take it as a sign and just go in and see what's going on? And perhaps most importantly, speaking of cars, if your spiritual life were a car, what would it be?

Esau is associate professor of New Testament at Wheaton College in Wheaton, Illinois, and theologian in residence at Progressive Baptist Church in Chicago. He is the author of four available books, Lent: The Season of Repentance and Renewal, Sharing in the Son’s Inheritance, Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an Exercise in Hope, and Josey Johnson’s Hair and the Holy Spirit. He is a contributing opinion writer for the New York Times and has a memoir coming out in September.

Now put away that chocolate and settle in. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Give to the Living Church 

Check out Esau's books:

Lent: The Season of Repentance and Renewal

Sharing in the Son’s Inheritance

Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an Exercise in Hope

Josey Johnson’s Hair and the Holy Spirit

How Far to the Promised Land? (new memoir)

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What's more important, unity or justice?

Today we're travelling back in time with the Rev. Dr. Brandt Montgomery and the Rt. Rev. R. William Franklin to look at some influential figures from the Episcopal past -- John Henry Hobart and the founders of Saint James School in Maryland -- and how they influenced the shapes of political engagement of Anglicans in the United States. We'll examine the choices they made that encouraged justice and flourishing among God's people, especially among Black Anglicans -- or not; and mistakes they made that, however clear or unclear they were at the time, we can now see in retrospect. What can we learn from them?

One interesting pattern that we'll trace from the 19th century to today is the high-church Anglican habit of reserve, which often includes a strategy of gradualism or reticence when it comes to social justice issues. How do you balance social justice with a peaceful or coherent community life? Is it a matter of balance? Or some other kind of equation?

Together Father Brandt and Bishop Franklin will examine this speckled history as it plays out in these leaders' responses to social ills and evils, especially those that affect Black Americans, from slavery to civil rights. And what do the Anglo-Catholics have to do with all of this?

Bishop Bill Franklin is assisting bishop in the Episcopal Diocese of Long Island. He was previously Bishop of Western New York, and has also served, among other places, at St. Paul's Within the Walls in Rome, as associate director of the American Academy in Rome, and as associate priest of the Anglican Centre in Rome. He served as dean of Berkeley Divinity School at Yale, and as a professor at the General Theological Seminary in New York and at St. John's University in Minnesota.

Fr. Brandt Montgomery is the chaplain of Saint James School in Hagerstown, Maryland, having previously served as the Chaplain of Ascension Episcopal School in Lafayette, Louisiana and curate at Canterbury Episcopal Chapel and Student Center at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. He is a trumpet player and profound lover of jazz, as well as a scholar of American religious history, Episcopal Church history, the Oxford Movement and Anglo-Catholicism, and the Civil Rights Movement.

Last but not least, our interviewer today is the Rev. Mark Michael, who is our editor and interim executive director here at the Living Church.

Now ready the horses and hold onto your garters. We're headed into 200 years of history to see what we can learn for today. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Donate to the Living Church.

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So maybe not. But any of us who have been in Christian leadership for any length of time, if we have our eyes open to surprise, will experience God doing lots of things with the world and inviting us to participate, often in unpredictable ways. And when we follow, the Lord only knows what he will do.

How do you know if God is opening a door? If your community is being called to grow into a new ministry or identity? How can you tell when your own vocation might be taking a turn into new territory? Today -- and here's where we get to the jazz -- we will enjoy a case study in John Coltrane and evening prayer, pickleball courts, and an Anglo-Catholic parish on the Pacific coast pastored by someone who never wanted to be a priest in the first place. But he's since gotten used to the idea.

The Rev. Doran Stambaugh is rector at St. Michael's by-the-Sea in Carlsbad, California, where he began as curate in 2005 and where he was ordained to the priesthood. He is also a talented musician. He has learned what pickleball is, and he has a robust and ever-growing zeal for jazz and the liturgical life of the church.

We talked about the slow game of ministry in a community, embeddedness, building trust, and opening up God's sometimes subtle invitation to our neighbors, and to our common good.

Now change out that clarinet reed. Stretch out those hamstrings. And grab your prayer book. We're headed into a beautiful story of creative ministry. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Check out William Edgar's book, A Supreme Love.

As Jesus' identity is revealed to the world, first to the Wise Men and later at the Jordan River, how can those who receive this gift be witnesses to his life and love, and not either lose a sense of who he is or who we are or what his presence does in the world, or go about flying our Christian flag in such a way that we're accidentally recruiting for team pirate instead of team Prince of Peace?

Last November I had a conversation about mission and evangelism at Duke Divinity School with three friends you've heard on this show before. And I want to share that conversation with you here. It offers fresh and surprising insights from three different contexts: high-powered Manhattan, funky and fabulous Austin Texas, and booming immigrant communities in Dallas. What does it look like for Christian communities, and especially churches, to be involved in sharing the gospel in their own neighborhoods? There aren't many how-tos in our conversation today, but the adventures my guests describe, the trouble they get into for the kingdom, aren't for the faint of heart, either.

I was joined by the Rev. Jacob Smith, the Rev. Dr. Samira Page, and the Rev. Dr. Shawn McCain Tirres. I'll introduce them all in the episode today.

Finally, special thanks to the Anglican Episcopal House of Studies at Duke and Duke Divinity School for hosting this conversation, as part of their Symposium on the Future of Anglican Theological Education in North America.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Learn more about the Anglican Episcopal House of Studies at Duke.
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Welcome, listeners, to our Christmas chat episode of the Living Church, our final episode of the year. Kick back with a hot cider and listen on.

Fr. Mark Michael, our interim executive director and editor of the Living Church magazine asked if he could sit down with a good friend of TLC, the Rev. Dr. Russ Levenson, to talk about Russ's new and intriguing book.

What is it like to pastor a president? Russ Levenson has spent many years as rector of St. Martin's Episcopal Church in Houston, Texas, and among his parishioners, he has had the fascinating job of shepherding and observing the spiritual lives of fellow Episcopalians, former president George and Barbara Bush. His new book about it is called Witness to Dignity: the Life and Faith of George H.W. and Barbara Bush.

While religion and politics can get tied up in so many unhelpful ways, and we'd be hard-pressed to point to a set of genuine, bonafide, good old days, it is probably safe to say that dignity is not a bad thing, and learning from the strengths of a previous generation of leadership, as well as their weaknesses, is a worthy endeavor.

Russ Levenson has been rector of St. Martin’s for 15 years. He has served in many capacities in the Episcopal Church as pastor, council member, and a leader in global charitable and humanitarian organizations, including medical services and veterans' care. St. Martin's also serves as a Living Church Partner.

How is a president also a local parishioner? And how does it work do be their pastor, even just practically speaking? How do you help a former president to age and die well? What might it mean for a world leader to also be an authentic person of faith?

We will hear many interesting stories today. But before I pass the mic to Mark, let me add that a sense of good humor might not be the least of the impacts of faith on leadership. Comedian Dana Carvey developed a, let's say, famous impersonation of the former president, and what was President Bush's response? Take a look at the show notes today -- not only to click the link to give to TLC, of course, but also to see the former president's answer to being lampooned. It's a pretty good one.

Now whether you're in the Oval Office or just a normal square one, the white house or brick, Air Force One or your Camry, we hope you enjoy the conversation.

Make a holiday donation to TLC.

Watch George H.W. Bush and Dana Carvey. 

Read Russ Levenson's book.

Today is a special day on the liturgical calendar. It is what the fathers and mothers of the Church knew as the "First Podcast of Advent." Welcome to this wonderful time of waiting.

And we've got a treat for you almost as sweet as those baked goodies you're wondering whether or not to fast from because this is technically a penitential season: we welcome author and philosopher James K.A. Smith, who has written such books as Imagining the Kingdom and You Are What You Love: The Spiritual Power of Habit, and most recently, How to Inhabit Time. We've got a cozy Advent chat with him on his new book, How to Inhabit Time, from his home in Grand Rapids.

How do we live in time? And how do we resist -- how are Christians some of the worst at resisting -- living in time? How does time make us vulnerable, but also give us a sobering kind of power? And what does it mean that time is one of the conditions in which God becomes Immanuel to us?

It will be no surprise to you, given what I've just said, that James K.A. Smith is professor of philosophy at Calvin University. Over the years he has become an engaged public intellectual and cultural critic, an award-winning author, and a widely traveled speaker, building bridges between the academy, society, and the Church.

The author of a number of widely-known books, Jamie's writing has also appeared in the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, the Washington Post, and USA Today, as well as in influential literary and religious magazines. He serves as editor in chief of Image, a quarterly journal at the intersection of art, faith, and mystery.

We talk keeping time and catching curve balls, walking through houses once-loved, the charms and dangers of longing for the past, time as an adventure, and the radical freedom and trust the Incarnation invites us into. Lord of the Rings comes in, as well as the Left Behind series, Wes Anderson, and lots of German philosophers. We had a lovely time.

So cuddle up with a warm, frothy cup of whatever penitential holiday drink you feel like -- and if you're in the car, make sure you've got a lid securely on it -- we hope you enjoy the conversation.

Make a holiday donation to the Living Church.

Read How to Inhabit Time.

Today's episode is bittersweet. When we were recording it, we were saying goodbye, now we have said goodbye to our executive director of 13 years, Dr. Christopher Wells -- the inimitable Christopher Wells -- and in today's episode, I sit down with him for a little heart-to-heart. An exit interview, if you will. We reflect together on his time at TLC, his own sense of calling, and what next for him in his new role in London. And how can you have a conversation with Christopher without also talking about Anglican history? We do talk about Anglican history, and little about the history of the Living Church as a magazine and a movement; about the vocation of Anglicanism; and about how evangelical, Catholic, and ecumenical go together like Stanley Hauerwas, George Lindbeck, and the Second Vatican Council.

For those of you who sense some insider baseball up in here, you are absolutely right, and like baseball, you will still enjoy yourself even if you don't know everything that's going on. So grab yourself a hotdog and stick with us. We'll be entertaining and edifying as always. But there will definitely be some goodies in here for those interested in the Living Church's history and mission, and what further cahoots might look like with, for example, the Anglican Communion Office in London.

Speaking of which, Dr. Christopher Wells is the new Director of Unity Faith and Order for the Anglican Communion Office. He was executive director and publisher of the Living Church Foundation for 13 years. He is affiliate professor of theology at the General Theological Seminary and Nashotah House Theological Seminary, where he teaches courses on Augustine of Hippo, Thomas Aquinas, and Anglican ecclesiology. He has served as theological consultant to the Anglican-Roman Catholic Consultation in the U.S. (ARC-USA), is a prolific writer and editor, as well as a runner and an appreciator of good food. You definitely want to have dinner with Christopher. I also count him as a friend.

And like me, I hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Learn more about the Anglican Heritage Pilgrimage.

Objection 1: It would seem that there cannot be a virtue about comedy. For Ambrose says: "Our Lord said: 'Woe to you who laugh.'" Wherefore I consider that all, and not only excessive, comedy should be avoided. I answer that: Just as man needs bodily rest for the body's refreshment, since his power is finite, so too is it with his soul, whose power is also finite. And the soul's rest is pleasure. Consequently, the remedy for weariness of soul must needs consist in the application of some pleasure. Now such like words or deeds wherein nothing further is sought than the soul's delight, are called playful or humorous. 

Happy recent feast of All Saints' and All Souls' dear listeners, and Happy all Hallow's Eve. And my apologies to any Thomas Aquinas scholars out there who noticed the very small liberties -- very, very small -- that I just took with the Summa Theologica. 

What hath the saints to do with laughter? That is the question, in the nutshell, that I pose to my guest today, comedian Jen Fulwiler. Scripture and Christian tradition have much to say about joy, much to say about truth and truth-telling, and much to say about being human and growing into our full humanity before God. And all of these, I propose, are related to humor, laughter, and learning to tell our stories. 

Jennifer Fulwiler is a standup comic, bestselling author, former Sirius XM talk show host, and mom of six. Her podcast, This Is Jen, now The Jen Fulweiler Show, debuted in the Comedy Top 10 on iTunes. She is the one-woman show of The Naughty Corner standup comedy special and author of Something Other Than God, One Beautiful Dream, and Your Blue Flame. And: she's on tour! Tickets are on sale at jfcomedytour.com. You can follow her on Instagram at @JenniferFulwiler. 

We will talk today about standup comedy and the saints, about Jen's journey into Christianity, about holiness and laughter, and about the common grace that comedy reveals. 

And yet humor must "befit the hour and the man" (thank you again St. Thomas) -- so we'll also talk about how truthfulness, maturity, and facing reality can actually make a comedian funnier. 

Word to the wise, if you preach, if you pastor, I would listen to this conversation in that light too. What hath preaching to do with standup comedy? What might these art forms have in common? 

Finally, I make passing mention in the podcast of something called "blue" comedy -- and that simply means comedy you would not listen to with your children in the car. Or with your parents for that matter. 

(You can listen to today's episode with children and parents in the car.) 

But now, since "it is against reason for a man to be burdensome to others by hindering their enjoyment" (God bless you, St. Thomas), we hope you enjoy the conversation. 

See Jen Fulwiler live!
Check out Jen's books.
Check out Jen's comedy podcast. 

Subscribe to The Living Word Plus -- 30% off with an annual subscription.
Learn more about the Anglican Heritage Pilgrimage.

If this sounds familiar at all, you may really enjoy our conversation today about administrative skill and executive functioning, and how they help churches and pastors stay sane, and preach the gospel.

I'm talking today with the Rev. Aaron Zimmerman. Aaron is rector at St. Alban's Episcopal Church in Waco, Texas. He is past President of the Board of Directors of Mockingbird Ministries and is currently on the advisory board for StoryMakers NYC, a creative studio that designs Christian resources for kids. He is currently the Dean for the Northwest Convocation of the Diocese of Texas, and co-hosts the Same Old Song lectionary podcast with the Rev. Jacob Smith.

We take about the whys and wherefores of getting organized, karate chopping emails, setting standing meetings, delegating tasks, taking time off --  but we're not here to heap onto your to-do list shame pile. No! Aaron's got some tips, too, to help you get started, including a word or two for staying gracious with yourself, even as you improve your administrative skills.

Register for The Word of God Endures Forever.

Check out Aaron's podcast, Same Old Song. 

Our guest today is the Rev. Dr. Annette Brownlee, chaplain, director of field education and professor of pastoral theology at Wycliffe College, a theological school that forms many Anglicans and Christians of other traditions, in Toronto, Ontario. And she is someone who has had a profound influence in many lives of clergy and clery in training, whether they're serving in the Episcopal Church or elsewhere. She is the person whose door, in her own words, people knock on and say, "Can I come talk to you?" She is someone I have wanted to talk to for some time, and I finally got a chance to get her on the other side of the mic to ask her what it takes to nurture and disciple people who will very soon be leaders in God's Church -- many of them in the beautiful and broken family we know as Anglican.

We talk together about how training young ministers to be effective means teaching them to be rooted and ecumenical. In a school where Episcopal and Catholic students learn Greek with Reformed ACNA and non-denom students, what happens in this kind of context? And how can the challenge and opportunity it presents be pressed into formation? So you're not into corporate prayer? Well you need it. Crack open that prayer book! And you? You're in love with the BCP, the liturgy? Reverent with your burses and veils? Great! Now go sing praise songs and help serve soup at that storefront church.

Much of what we talk about centers also on teaching seminarians early to value and know the power of the Holy Spirit in the quotidian and the small, because much of parish life -- and indeed our life given as creatures -- is made of exactly this small dailyness. And if moments of heroic decision or action come for any of us, they'll depend on what we did without being noticed. The de-centering of oneself and learning the art of humilty -- something we could all benefit from.

Before coming to Wycliffe Annette was in fulltime parish ministry for many years. She currently assists and preaches at St. Paul’s L’Amoreaux in Scarborough. Her research interests include the multiple implications of preaching Scripture as the church’s book, Augustine’s divine pedagogy as a rule of life for preachers, the sermons of André Trocmé, and a model of theological reflection based on the Spirit’s use of Scripture in the Church. She is married to Ephraim Radner and they have two children.

Strap on your knapsack. Zip up your anorak. We're going to Canada. We may even see a bit of what the future of Anglican formation looks like.

Register for "The Word of God Endures Forever" webinar.

Today we’re taking a look at what Jesus might mean when he says, "Come follow me.” Specifically, we’ll talk about how this might work with young adults fresh out of college and just beginning their careers, and how other Christians can help them hear and obey that call.

Joining me to tell me what she knows about this — and she knows a lot — is my friend, Theresa Wilson. Theresa is the director of the Louisville Fellows Program in Kentucky and has a passion for developing young leaders committed to the flourishing of the local economy. She is married to the Rev. Clint Wilson, an Episcopal priest. They have a rambunctious 4-yr-old son and an equally tolerant black lab.

Sharpen your pencils, because you may have graduated, but school’s not over yet.

Theresa recommends: 

iGen: Why Today's Super-Connected Kids Are Growing Up Less Rebellious, More Tolerant, Less Happy--and Completely Unprepared for Adulthood--and What That Means for the Rest of Us by Jean M. Twenge

Visions of Vocation by Steven Garber

"Why Work?" by Dorothy Sayers

Every Good Endeavor by Timothy Keller

Explore Living Church Books

Find out more about the Louisville Fellows.

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What happened at the Lambeth Conference? This week we've got two bishops fresh from Lambeth, coming in to share what they saw and heard. We'll talk Resolution I.10, missing provinces, the ministry of the archbishop, practical takeaways, how easy it is to get lost in the woods of Kent, and much more.

After all the important forecasting and reporting, we note this week the importance of presence. The sense of places and people, emotional impressions, food, weather, silences, tense moments, and what makes you laugh -- they're vital. Both of our guests today brought home a lot from the conference, for themselves and their communities. With differing perspectives, and with the different communities they minister to, our guests today describe a diversity and yet striking commonality to what they experienced at Lambeth -- a commonality that is enlightening.

The Rt. Rev. Dr. Joseph Wandera is Bishop of the Anglican Diocese of Mumias, Kenya, former professor at St. Paul’s University, Limuru, and has served on various committees of the Anglican Communion, including Theological Education in the Anglican Communion (TEAC).

The Rt. Rev. Jenny Andison is Rector at St. Paul's Bloor St. in Toronto. She's the former area Bishop of York-Credit Valley in the Diocese of Toronto and has served in Toronto for many years. Bishop Jenny has also served in the Diocese of London (UK), and the Diocese of Tokyo.

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Join us in Oklahoma City for the Love's Redeeming Work Conference. Podcast listeners use discount code FRIEND25 for 25% off all tickets. Click here for tickets.

Today we have two very special guests, one of them a professor of mine from grad school, the other a new friend and colleague in the Anglican Church in Brazil. All of us have a Pentecostal background as well as an interest in theology, the social sphere, and ecumenical conversation. My guests have a trove of wisdom and stories about how Pentecosalism in the U.S. and Latin America shape the Christian imagination, interact with institutional Christianity, affect the lives of the poor, and challenge the Church to a more sensitive witness in our time.

The Rev. Dr. Cheryl Bridges Johns is visiting professor at United Theological Seminary and director of their Global Pentecostal House of Studies. She is past president of the Society for Pentecostal Studies and a leading Pentecostal ecumenist, and was a participant in the International Roman Catholic-Pentecostal Dialogue and active in the Commission on Faith and Order for the National Council of Churches (1992-1996). She is the author of Pentecostal Formation: A Pedagogy Among the Oppressed and Reenchanting the Text: Discovering the Bible as Sacred, Dangerous, and Mysterious.

Dr. Joanildo Burity is a political scientist, lead researcher and professor in the Professional Masters of sociology at the Joaquim Nabuco Foundation in Brazil, and professor in the Postgraduate Programme in Sociology and Political Science at the Federal University of Pernambuco. He was senior lecturer and Director of the Faith and Globalisation Programme at Durham University, UK and a member of the Anglican Consultative Council. Joanildo is an active lay leader in the Anglican Church in Brazil. He is the author of Faith in Revolution: An Analysis of the Northeastern Conference (2012), and a recent number of articles on religion and politics in South America.

Check out Cheryl's work.

Check out Joanildo's work.

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My guest has a refreshing and hard-won take on leadership that focuses on the way we use our physical selves in space in order to assert or share power. Where does power come from? Why do some people just walk in a room and seem to have "the it factor"? What do you do if you have it? What if you don't? Is it OK to tell a garrulous person in a staff meeting to stop talking? Whether you have a lot of natural influence or not, our guest says, power is our God-given birthright to steward, and how we use it starts with the body.

The Rev. Dr. MaryKate Morse is Executive Dean of the Portland Seminary of George Fox University and lead mentor for the Leadership and Spiritual Formation D.Min. track. She has taught for nearly 30 years in New Testament Greek, spiritual formation, leadership, and organizational change and serves as a spiritual director for evangelists and church planters. She's the author of Lifelong Leadership: Woven Together through Mentoring Communities; Making Room for Leadership: Power, Space, and Influence; and A Guidebook to Prayer: Twenty-Four Ways to Walk with God, as well as various other writing projects.

Check out Living Church Books.

Check out MaryKate's book, Making Room for Leadership.

Why should you, O listener who may not be an Anglican bishop, or even an Anglican, care about the Lambeth Conference? We'll get to that. What has been up since the last Lambeth Conference in the church globally? The last 14 years in the world? Quite a lot. How will church leaders respond to complex questions on issues like Christian teaching on human sexuality and human rights? How will they make room for everyone at the table? Is there safe space to be honest, and how do people who disagree discern the call of the gospel together? How do you reconcile ecclesial tensions and heal old wounds? What do we make of former Abp. Rowan Williams's and Abp. Justin Welby's different approaches to the paradoxes and pressures of Anglicanism, including the rise of the ACNA and GAFCON, and important bishops who boycott the conference altogether?

We'll discuss all of these things and more with the Rev. Dr. Andrew Goddard and the Rev. Dr. David Goodhew.

Andrew Goddard was on a previous episode discussing the Living in Love and Faith curriculae. He's assistant minister at St James the Less, Pimlico, London; tutor in Christian ethics at Ridley Hall in Cambridge and Westminster Theological Centre; and member of the Church of England Evangelical Council. He published two recent pieces on our Covenant blog on "Lambeth in Retrospect."

David Goodhew is a visiting fellow of St. Johns College, Durham University, and vicar at St. Barnabas Church, Middlesbrough, England. He has also been prolific on Covenant lately with four articles: "Lambeth 2022 and African Anglicanism"; "Is the Anglican Communion Growing or Dying? New Data"; "Whither the CofE?"; and "The Episcopal Church in 2050."

Read the Windsor Report.

Read the Lambeth Calls.

Keep up with Lambeth news on livingchurch.org or by following us on Twitter or Facebook.

Read our blog, Covenant.

Today we welcome Dr. Patrick Q. Mason. Patrick holds the Leonard J. Arrington Chair of Mormon History and Culture at Utah State University. He is the author of several books including Mormonism and Violence: The Battles of Zion; The Mormon Menace: Violence and Anti-Mormonism in the Postbellum South; and Proclaim Peace: The Restoration's Answer to an Age of Conflict. He was a Fulbright Scholar and is a past president of the Mormon History Association. Patrick is frequently consulted by the media on stories related to Mormon culture and history and is himself a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Now put on your sunglasses and sunblock, because we're headed to Utah, and into the heart of some tough questions about what it means to be a person of faith, not just as a Mormon in the 1980s, but as a Christian in our world today. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Check out Patrick's books.

Visit TLC's blog, Covenant.

View TLC's new books!

Today I'm joined by the Rev. Jonathan Jameson, also known as Jon Jameson of the indie rock band Delta Spirit. We talk about his own giftings in the arts and ministry and how they've been mutually illuminating. We talk about about discipleship on the concert circuit, the importance of geeking out and loving what you love, steps to discerning vocation, and how Björk accidentally ended up in a conversation about sin and grace with Arvo Pärt.

Jonathan is associate rector at St. John’s Episcopal Church Savannah, Ga. Until becoming a priest he was a full-time professional musician. Jonathan and his wife Amy, a fashion designer, recently moved from Montreal, and have two young children. Delta Spirit is the Americana-influenced indie band he's been part of for 17 years, along with four other musicians. They've toured with My Morning Jacket, Clap Your Hands Say Yeah, Cold War Kids, and The Shins.

Turn up your Fender Frontman -- maybe even to 11. Get those headphones on tight. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Watch Björk with Arvo Pärt

Visit Delta Spirit's website

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Faith and science—how do we have these conversations?—evolution, artificial intelligence, Covid, When does life begin?, How should it end?—how do we have these conversations in ways that are charitable and as smart as possible and leave behind some of the my-yard-sign-is-more-loving-than-your-yard sign Babel, but also admit tough questions and pose rich gospel responses?

Allow me to send all of you to our blog, Covenant, to check out two of our most recent articles on faith and science. You can find links for both of those below.

The Rev. Dr. Kara Slade will be joining me today to talk about learning how to run our fingers along the seams of faith and science. They're not seamless, not two ways of talking about the exact same thing. They don't always "agree together quickly on the way," but that disagreement need not lead us into internecine Christian wars, or wars with our neighbors—though it probably will lead us at times, and for seasons, into conflict with a prevailing ethic or vision of the world, especially when the vision threatens our ability to be human.

Kara Slade is associate rector of Trinity Church in Princeton, N.J., and canon theologian of the Diocese of New Jersey. She shepherds Anglican and Episcopal students at Princeton Theological Seminary. She holds a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering and materials science and a Ph.D. in theology, both from Duke University. Her latest book is The Fullness of Time: Jesus Christ, Science, and Modernity (Wipf and Stock).

Read Kara Slade's article, "Follow the Science? Yes and No."

Read Sarah Coakley's article, "God, Evolution, and Cooperation."

Check out Kara's latest book, The Fullness of Time: Jesus Christ, Science, and Modernity.

Find out more about the Love's Redeeming Work conference.

What the heck does that mean? Transforming conflict. And without avoiding religion, politics, or anything else spicy and personal. That's the question we ask today.

This topic is for everyone. How can we broach tough topics rather than protecting ever-widening safety zones of silence? The topics we avoid are often the things that make us human and able to know others as full humans. And they're often our soft spots. So if you're not a hider, and you're more a wear-your-opinion-on-your-sleeve kind of person, this episode is for you too. What if our soft spots are right where God is calling us to connect? Calling us to be courageous witnesses to relationship in polarized communities? How can we face relational challenges without running away or exploding? How do we deal with feeling triggered? And what are some tools we can use for investing patiently in the relational long run, instead of trying to fix everything now?

The Rev. Canon Nicholas Porter joins us today with his colleague Sarah Benazera. Nicholas is the founder and executive director of Jerusalem Peacebuilders, an interfaith, non-profit organization that promotes transformational, person-to-person encounters among the peoples of Jerusalem, Israel, Palestine, and the United States. A long-time resident of Europe and the Middle East, Nicholas is an educator and Episcopal priest. Sarah is Senior Educator and Curriculum Advisor of Jerusalem Peacebuilders. She is a humanist, peace-activist, storyteller and educator, with years of hands-on experience in international and intercultural dialogue.

They'll share their wisdom with us today. They'll also tell some beautiful and inspiring stories about the messy but rewarding experience of working with young people from some of the world's most contentious contexts. As Sarah and Nicholas tell us today, peacebuilding is a marathon. So let's join them to get hydrated, and get stretched.

Many of us have had these moments of finding the vocabulary of the heart, or of some experience or desire we couldn't quite name, suddenly appear before us in the writings of the saints. Then when I started reading C.S. Lewis, I found a translator and a teacher of many of these concepts, and an imagination that helped me put them on a theological map -- maps that often looked like Narnia or the planet Venus.

Though Lewis doesn't use the word "theosis" in his writings, I found my understanding of this core Christian hope expand under his teaching. And I wondered how much interest in or exposure to Eastern Christianity Lewis had in his life. Who were his teachers? What do we learn through what he was learning about love's redeeming work?

So, on to theosis in the life, works, and relationships of CS Lewis. What do we find there? I had a couple of conversation partners and guides who were up to the task, and we unearthed a few delightful surprises together.

Drs. Crystal and David Downing are co-directors of the Marion E. Wade Center at Wheaton College, Illinois, which promotes the work of C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkein, Dorothy Sayers, Charles Williams, and other key British Christian authors, and helps develop new writers and scholars of faith and imagination.

Crystal formerly served as Distinguished Professor of English and Film Studies at Messiah College, and is the author of several books on Dorothy Sayers, postmodernism, and film. Her most recent book, Subversive: Christ, Culture, and the Shocking Dorothy L Sayers, won a starred review by Publisher's Weekly and was Publisher's Weekly's pick of the week.

David Downing has written several scholarly books on C.S. Lewis and provided a critical introduction and explanatory notes to the new edition of C.S. Lewis's The Pilgrim's Regress. He also serves as a consulting reader of Lewis and editorial consultant for a number of academic publishers.

Now enter the wardrobe, hop on the bus, and snuggle into your space capsule. Or hold tight to your copy of St. John Climacus. And enjoy the conversation.

Give to TLC

Learn more about the Love's Redeeming Work conference

Check out the Marion E. Wade Center

This week, we'll hear a conversation in honor of women's vocation, dedicated to a particular saint, that woman who stayed at the empty tomb, that bold apostle to the apostles, St. Mary Magdalene.

The ordination of women, much less women's spiritual leadership and authority more generally, is not an issue from a bygone era. It's still a live question in many parts of the Church, as we know, and in many parts of the Anglican world. How does healthy, continued discernment happen, while maintaining unity in the Church? How does rooted transition happen when the time comes to change things? How can excavating history be a part of the Holy Spirit's work in helping the Church discern good paths forward?

Women's leadership is a good case in point. And today we look specifically at the question of whether to open the ordained diaconate to women in the Roman Catholic Church -- or actually, to re-open it. This is a fascinating movement that offers a good case study for Anglicans and other Christians as we continue to discern together how to be faithful to his leading in our time.

Today we hear from Dr. Phyllis Zagano. Phyllis is an internationally acclaimed Catholic scholar and lecturer on contemporary spirituality and women's issues in the Church. Her award-winning books include Holy Saturday: An Argument for the Restoration of the Female Diaconate in the Catholic Church; Women & Catholicism: Gender, Communion, and Authority; and Women: Icons of Christ.

Phyllis has also served as a member of the Papal Commission for the study of the diaconate of women and is the winner of two Fulbright awards. She holds a research appointment at Hofstra University.

Thanks for joining us today. And as you listen in, think of a woman in leadership you can support or pray for this week.

Read about Sister Priscilla Wright.

Purchase Phyllis Zagano's book, Women: Icons of Christ.

Give to the Living Church.

Something else that's happening this week: Friday, April 22, is Earth Day. Our celebration of the Lord's Passion and victory over death coincides with Earth Day, so in light of the upcoming Lambeth focus on creation, and the persistent calls to mutual, loving sacrifice, prayer, and stewardship of the earth from Archbishop Justin, Presiding Bishop Michael, Pope Francis, and Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, among other local leaders around the world, we are recognizing this Easter/Earth day coincidence this week in a couple of ways.

First, in our Daily Devotional. The Living Church puts out a free online devotional every day. This week our author is the Rev. Dr. Rachel Mash, Environmental Coordinator of the Anglican Church of Southern Africa. She was also a guest on podcast episode #60, Green Anglicans: An Introduction. She's been reflecting on the connection between Easter and creation this week. You can sign up for the Daily Devotional here, or find them at livingchurch.org.

We're also going to plunge deep into the topic of creation and Christianity on today's episode, in conversation with a good friend of the Living Church, the Rev. Canon Dr. Mark Clavier.

Mark is Residentiary Canon of Brecon Cathedral in Wales where he also directs Convivium, an initiative to foster a vision of the Church that stands apart from consumerism. He is a regular contributor to BBC Radio Wales and The Living Church and spends a lot of his free time walking. His most recent book is A Pilgrimage of Paradoxes: A Backpacker’s Encounters with God and Nature.

Mark and his wife, historian Dr. Sarah Ward Clavier, have been on our show before. (As have their dogs, Humphrey and Cuthbert: they provided the howling sound effects for our 2021 Halloween episode.) I brought Mark on today because his work as a pastor, and even his conversion as a Christian, has had so much to do with the earth -- especially landscapes, and preserving and loving local environments. So much of his call has been wrapped up in watching God reveal his character through the woods of South Carolina, the Blue Ridge Mountains of Appalachia, and then the Brecon Beacons and byways of Wales. Today we'll talk about his travels, being bowled over by God's glory, medieval bestiaries, living as Christians in climate apocalypse, and of course, Wendell Berry.

And another coincidence: Monday, April 25, will be the feast of St. Mark. So let's get on with our conversation with our own friend, Mark, and listen together for God's healing word to our world.

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Check out Mark Clavier's latest book.

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Pope Francis has undoubtedly been addressing some of the biggest issues of our time in some very public ways, notably with Laudato Si' and Fratelli Tutti, and today we're getting an inside look into the "What now?", into how the Vatican is addressing this big vision for human flourishing, in cooperation with other Christians.

For this insider look I had the pleasure of chatting with Alessio Pecorario. Alessio is the Coordinator of the Security Task Force of the Vatican COVID-19 Commission and a senior official of the Vatican’s Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development, which includes many areas of dialogue and oversight.

We discuss the importance of Christian witness in this moment, Christian unity even amid disagreement, Anglican vocations to unity and dialogue dovetailing with Catholic gifts, and the gift of the papacy to strengthen the influence of positive Christian leadership worldwide.

Now before I let you go here, I've been meaning to ask you, dear listener, for feedback about the podcast. How do you like it these days? This show is for invested Christian leaders like you. So what would you like to hear more of? What are you appreciating? What would you like from this that you don't currently have? If you have a comment or an idea, email me at ambernoel@livingchurch.org. I would love to hear from you.

And as always, if you enjoy the podcast, if you enjoy this episode, send it along to a friend.

And now, let's head to the heart of Rome, for a listening session on Christian leadership and care for our world. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Learn more about the Laudato Si' Action Platform.

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We're talking about the art and craft of preaching today, thinking about beginners to the craft, but also thinking about those who have been at it for a long time, and what it might take to get out of the rut of old habits, re-energize your imagination, and even let yourself get nervous behind the pulpit again, if you haven't felt that way in a while. What is a good sermon, anyway? And how much does it really matter if the liturgy and the Eucharist take center stage? What can bad preaching do? And what does preaching have in common with stand-up comedy and tennis?

Apart from tips for good preaching or better preaching, we've got some edifying stories of embarrassing mistakes to learn from, and forays into the realm of pop culture. We also survey a few other preaching styles throughout history that may not be familiar, or even comfortable, but we can definitely learn from, from Jonathan Edwards to televangelists.

Fr. Jacob was born on the Navajo Reservation and was raised in Yuma, Arizona. As an Episcopal priest he initially served in the Diocese of San Diego, and he's been at the Parish of Calvary-St. George's in NYC in various roles for 15 years. His wife, Melina, by the way, publishes a church curriculum for children you should check out called Storymakers. And in part of his free time, when he's not watching a favorite show and gleaning sermon illustrations, Jacob is lovingly working on the Same Old Song preaching podcast with fellow priest Aaron Zimmerman.

Now get out your Moleskine journal and your favorite pen and join us as we make some insightful and fun notes on preaching! We hope you enjoy the conversation.

LEARN MORE about our conference in Oklahoma City, Love's Redeeming Work: Discovering the Anglican Tradition

Storymakers curriculum

Same Old Song podcast

This is how Mother Samira Page helps people put themselves in the shoes of a refugee. She says, even when you arrive in a place that's safer than what you left, you feel like you've been hit in the head. But now you've got to think, and act, and do it fast.

How can Christians, of all types, all political persuasions, from different traditions and backgrounds, respond together faithfully to refugee neighbors? What types of welcome do refugees need, very practically speaking? And what are some steps to take from fear and uncertainty about refugees to understanding and human warmth?

The original title of today's episode was "Refugee Pastor," not only because today's guest is a pastor among refugees, but also because she has been one herself. From receiving a visit from the Virgin Mary, to a house search in Iran, to a dangerous Rio Grande crossing, the Rev. Dr. Samira Izadi Page has quite a story to tell.

Samira is an Episcopal priest and the founder and executive director of Gateway of Grace, an outreach ministry to refugees, many of whom are survivors of severe trauma. Her organization helps refugees start over with donations, baby showers, job assistance, and language lessons. Gateway also trains volunteers and churches to adopt refugee families, the point where friendships form and integration begins.

She is the author of Who Is My Neighbor? and co-author and co-editor of No Longer Strangers: Transforming Evangelism with Immigrant Communities.

This really was an eye-opening conversation for me. There's so much here that goes behind the curtain, to the stories, hopes, and needs of people forced to run away from home, and reveals the miraculous presence of God in the lives of people who have lost everything, as well as in the lives of those who help them to rebuild.

Final note: This was recorded before the Russian attacks in Ukraine, but of course we hope you have Ukranian refugees in mind as well as you listen.

More About Gateway of Grace Refugee Ministry

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Living Church Institute Calendar & Events

In January, Nashotah House Theological Seminary and the Living Church Institute co-hosted an ecumenical pilgrimage to Rome. We were a group of Catholics and Anglicans, students, clergy, and lay pilgrims, from the U.S., Canada, and Nigeria. The group was hosted by the Anglican Centre in Rome and the Centro Pro Unione.

I was deeply affected by my experience there and wanted to bring you all in, partly to answer some of the questions I had going in: What does ecumenism mean? What does it have to do with the average Christian? What can you learn about Christian unity, its possibilities and its snarls, by traveling to a holy site together?

This episode was recorded on-site in the Eternal City, in various places, including the Anglican Centre in Rome, the office of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, and my Airbnb. I'll let all my interviewees introduce themselves.

We hope you enjoy the conversations and the journey, and maybe feel inspired to take a similar journey and start similar conversations yourself.

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Just the first six words. Well, like it says at the very end of John, the world couldn't hold all the books written about Jesus if we recorded all he did and said. So no wonder it's taken theologian David Ford 20 years to write a commentary on the Gospel of John. Fellow theologian and Episcopal priest Wes Hill joins us to interview David on this brand-new commentary and dive deep into this unique gospel.

Why does super-abundance saturate the stories and images of John? Why is it full of Old Testament Easter eggs? Why are Christian theological traditions obsessed with John in particular? Where did John's passion for Christian unity come from? And why is John's prologue like a bucket? Tune in and find out.

Prof. David F. Ford is Regius Professor of Divinity Emeritus at the University of Cambridge and a Fellow of Selwyn College. He's written many books. Our listeners may be particularly interested in The Shape of Living and The Drama of Living, a rich blend of theology and spirituality, practical reflection, and poetry. You might also pick up Theology: A Very Short Introduction from the Oxford University Press Very Short Introduction series, or The Future of Christian Theology. David is also deeply involved in inter-faith relations.

Purchase David's new book, The Gospel of John: A Theological Commentary

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Today we'll talk with the very man who's been finding this out, the Rev. Dr. Mark Andrew Jefferson.

Mark is Assistant Professor of Homiletics and the Associate Director of the Deep Calls to Deep Preaching Program at VTS. He has also taught at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary and Candler School of Theology at Emory. He has been a director of Christian education, and his academic work focuses on critical engagement of the American social imagination and African American socio-political enfranchisement and empowerment. He has an upcoming book, tentatively titled, The Mis-education of the African American Preacher. He is an internationally respected preacher and teacher of preachers.

We talk about this preaching project, the importance of history and place, Christian unity, preaching in Cape Town after the death of Archbishop Tutu, and what revival might be looking like.

Most of us are ministering week by week in a local parish, getting that intimate, zoomed-in view of what God is doing here, in this spot. But what do we get from a bird's eye view? What do you see particularly when you're a guest preacher?

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While we're in this time of Epiphany, we've cooked up a few episodes of the podcast that have to do with recovering and sharing the "aha!" of what God has shown us in his Son Jesus. What does this, God's mission, look like in different contexts, among seekers and people of other faiths or none, as well as among the long-ago baptized and catechized?

And how do we as Christians and churchgoers, shaped by that Epiphany light,  experience it afresh, even after long habituation?

What we've got in store for you today is the latest cutting-edge idea guaranteed to optimize discipleship and mission, involving a technology you barely know about, and all for the low price of... Just kidding. Today we're going to talk about liturgy. Something you've already got and know well. With God's help, that already-familiar Church toolkit may be all you need to share the gospel in a powerful way.

My guest today is the Rev. Dr. Shawn McCain. He is an Anglican priest and church planter and the founding rector of Resurrection Anglican Church in South Austin, Texas. Before that, he helped plant Redeemer Anglican Church in Santa Cruz, Calif. He has also been a computer engineer at Hewlett Packard. And he's currently working on his first book. His bread and butter is liturgy as mission.

Just like the Church seasons teach us, getting re-inspired by what we already have, by what we already know, can teach us so powerfully to seek out what God still has in store.

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Today’s episode has its origins in the most recent meeting of the Living Church Foundation.  The Living Church Foundation is a diverse and dynamic group of leaders from around the Communion. They’re parish priests, business people, archbishops, prayer warriors, moms and dads, educators, organizers. And they're all dedicated to friendship, to the thriving of the Communion, and to the visible unity of the Church of God.

So yes, after we discussed the budget and voted on some stuff, we moved to a discussion of synodality—what it means to walk together as Christians, as Anglicans in our time. And this is the Christmas present we have for you today.

Four of our bishops on the Foundation gave us a few words: the Rt. Rev. Rowan Williams joined us from Wales, the Rt. Rev. Samy Shehata from Egypt, the Rt. Rev. Joseph Wandera from Kenya, and the Rt. Rev. John Bauerschmidt from Nashville. The conversation was rich, nuanced, patient, and deeply encouraging.

Some of the presentation is almost devotional, some gets into the nitty-gritty of the history and current strategies aimed at synodality globally. Our Executive Director, Christopher Wells, makes some opening remarks to kick us off and introduces each of our speakers.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Email Dr. Christopher Wells for information about planned gifts, gifts of stock, and giving to our Endowment.

There's seems to be this golden combination of boldness, confidence, yet naturalness, humanity, humility, simplicity, that makes for really effective evangelism, no matter the personality type or tradition a Christian is formed in. This kind of evangelism does not require you to either have a degree in theology or to apply the kind of cringe-worthy strategies you wouldn't want to be on receiving end of.

So what makes for confident, bold, but really natural evangelism? The kind that doesn't require that you turn into someone else, but does require that, at least once in a while, you get out of your comfort zone?

And what's the difference between an evangelistic vocation and the witness all Christians are called to?

We'll hear more about all this today from two experts in the field:

Canon J John is a Church of England priest and evangelist with over 40 years' experience. J John runs an organization called Philo Trust, which equips and mentors Christians to be more effective evangelists from where they are.

Guiding the conversation is Canon Carrie Boren Headington. Carrie is canon for evangelism for the Diocese of Dallas and founder of the Good News Initiative. She is also consulting evangelist for revivals for the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church and adjunct professor of evangelism at Fuller Seminary.

Now sit back, relax, but definitely stay alert. You hear a challenge today. It's a good one.

Learn more about J John

Learn more about Carrie Headington

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In his book Deification Through the Cross: An Eastern Christian Theology of Salvation, the Rev. Dr. Khaled Anatolios lays out the premise that, the deeper you go into Christian tradition, into the doctrine of salvation—which is to say, into the accounts of faithful Christians' exploration of what Jesus has done for them—the more you find a unified doctrine of salvation that East and West fully share and embrace.

We've brought on three guests today for a conversation about just this question.

Our first guest is Dr. Marcus Plested. Marcus is Henri de Lubac Chair in Theology at Marquette University, and has taught, lectured, and published widely in patristic, Byzantine, and modern Orthodox theology. He is the author of two books to date: The Macarian Legacy: The Place of Macarius-Symeon in the Eastern Christian Tradition and Orthodox Readings of Aquinas. He also taught at the Institute for Orthodox Christian Studies in Cambridge for 13 years.

Dr. Joshua McManaway is our other guest. Josh is visiting assistant professor of the practice in the theology department at the University of Notre Dame. His research focuses principally on early and Medieval Christianity.

Our third guest and moderator is Dr. Timothy O'Malley. Tim is the director of education at the McGrath Institute for Church Life and academic director of the Notre Dame Center for Liturgy. He specializes in liturgical-sacramental theology, marriage and family, catechesis, and spirituality.

Now strap on your knapsacks for another ecumenical adventure. Are you bringing along a rosary, or a prayer rope?

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And the location of our office building fascinates me. Right now I'm looking out onto crepe myrtle trees, a library, bike racks, and students -- walking to class, going to grab coffee. We're right on the edge of Southern Methodist University's campus. Last year it was not like this. It was sort of eerily quiet. No traffic jams at lunchtime or rush hour. But now all the students are back.  I'm watching all these young people go by, slouching under their backpacks, hunched over their phones, talking with friends, and I'm thinking, "What are your lives like? Have you heard the gospel? Do you know the riches of the Church? And how can you scroll Instagram while walking?"

Today we're going to have a conversation about students, student ministry, returning to campus, and what Episcopal ministry to Gen Z can look like, particularly post-pandemic.

I invited the very generous Rev. Valerie Mayo to join me today and enlighten me about what's going on in her neck of the woods. Valerie is Campus Minister and Urban Missioner for the Episcopal Diocese of Kentucky, and she is at the University of Louisville, where she serves in Episcopal-Lutheran Campus ministry. She's also the mother of two Gen Z young folks. It was fascinating to hear what's going on where she is, and how she sees grace and presence as some of the most powerful ministry we can offer to students right now.

Are you a preacher or teacher who uses the lectionary? Sign up for The Living Word Plus, the Living Church weekly sermon prep toolkit, and get the first month free. (Coupon code LISTENUP at checkout)

Literally, we are talking about graves, churchyards, clergy wills from the 17th and 18th centuries in Wales, and some fascinating social and religious history that these wills unearth. What does it mean if a dying man leaves his wife a featherbed? What is an apostle spoon? How did poverty, wealth, and marriage prohibitions affect clergy life? Why did so many people give away cheese in their wills?

This scary-cool history conversation is courtesy of Dr. Sarah Ward Clavier. Sarah is senior lecturer in early modern history at the University of the West of England, Bristol. She has a book out called Royalism, Religion, and Revolution: Wales, 1640-1688.

Sarah mentions the English Restoration and Interregnum in our episode today. Quick definition of these for those who don't know:

When King Charles I was executed in 1649, England had no king. Britain was run by various councils, assemblies, and parliaments until Charles II took the throne in 1660. Thus began the Restoration.

Our episode opens today with amazing organ work by Julian Petrallia, organ scholar at Incarnation Episocpal Church in Dallas, Texas. And at the end of the episode, you'll get to hear Julian play in full Prelude in C Minor, by Bach, BWV 546.

Shake out your church history trick-or-treat bag and open it wide. We promise more treats than tricks today!

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The point is, even though reality is a lot more complex, we often think of there being, in a given cultural context, two major groups of Christians at odds with each other: Catholic vs. Protestant, mainline vs. evangelical, conservative vs. liberal/progressive. And the distinctions split off, become exceedingly fine, etc., etc. How they manifest may range from good-natured jokes about each other to ignoring or deploring the other's existence. But working together, much less worshipping together, can be messy.

So where am I going with this? Well, if you know anything about the Living Church, and if you know that this episode is about ministry, climate, and creation care, asking questions about divisions in the body of Christ should not come as too much of a surprise.

Fortunately, today we've got a great conversation partner. Dr. Mark Purcell is the Executive Director of A Rocha USA, a Christian conservation organization in the international A Rocha network. (We'll talk more about who they are in the episode.) Mark and I dig into the work of climate and creation care from the perspective of a Christian organizer who works with Christians across the theological and denominational spectrum, in an organization with evangelical roots. We'll talk today about what they do, but also about how Mark has learned to communicate and build relationships cross-traditionally, and how other Christian leaders from mainline or liturgical perspectives can build connections over creation care with evangelical and "non-liturgical" Christian leaders. You want ecumenical work? You want climate change action? Mark says, start with your neighbors.

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Today we welcome Dr. Warren Kinghorn for conversation about trauma, ministry, and healing. Warren is the Esther Colliflower Associate Research Professor of Pastoral and Moral Theology at Duke Divinity School; Co-Director of the Theology, Medicine, and Culture Initiative; and Associate Professor of Psychiatry at Duke University Medical Center.

Final note: In talking about trauma today, we do not go into any explicit detail about forms of trauma or traumatic experiences. But even talking about the topic of trauma may evoke strong feelings in folks who are trauma survivors. So for our listeners, please make sure it's the right time for you for this episode.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

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With this in mind, we're working here at the podcast on producing a series of interviews with organizers, artists, scientists, scholars, and pastors to talk about climate urgency, creation, and how protecting and stewarding it intersects with our various leadership roles and our vocations as Christians.

Today we'll hear from the Rev. Dr. Rachel Mash. Rachel is the environmental Coordinator of the Anglican Church of Southern Africa. She works with the Green Anglicans Movement, which we'll be discussing today. She is also the secretary to the Anglican Communion Environmental Network and sits on the steering group of the Season of Creation group.

Our conversation today concentrates on how we go from hearing and knowing about climate change to getting the issues in our heart space (not always an easy leap), how Christians are responding in various ways around the globe, and how a deeper care for creation might be integrated into devotional practices, liturgy, and Christian rites of passage. We also talk about grounding ecological action in Scripture, and I pose to Rachel some questions many of us may be asking: like when does minute attention to single use plastics and planting trees distract from the church's main mission to preach the gospel? Does it have to?

Check out Green Anglicans

Check out the Anglican Communion Environmental Network

Learn more about the ecumenical Season of Creation

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Speaking of school, in time for the return to class, whether you're a professor, parent, or student yourself, today's reading from Chrysostom is a homily and a bit of a scolding, maybe you could say an authoritative encouragement, about why we send our kids to school, and how we should teach them to live. Enjoy!

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Small groups are a time-tested way of building that community, and they're seeing something of a revival in recent days. They're also incredibly adaptable to different churches and cultures. "Hey, the 90s called and they want their small groups back." That's not the way it needs to be.
Today we're going to talk to two people who have successfully implemented small group ministries in their very different church contexts and hear how small group ministry can be done, what it contributes particularly to Anglican and Episcopal contexts, how small groups relate to church growth, how to avoid cliques in small parishes and disconnection in large ones, and other expert advice on leading and implementing this model of discipleship in your parish.

Our guests today are Brooke Holt and the Rev. Canon Robert Sihubwa.

Brooke is a lay leader at St. John the Divine Episcopal Church in Houston Texas, and executive director of Bible Study Media, a small group curriculum company. Her passion is teaching God's Word and equipping believers to build the Kingdom. She also ministers through healing prayer and Holy Yoga. She has seen small groups transform community in her parish, even during the pandemic.

Fr. Robert is rector of St. Peter's Anglican Church in Lusaka, Zambia. He also serves as the Anglican Province of Central Africa's youth and children ministry leader. He is a preacher, evangelist, and Christian educator, and hosts a radio show on Radio Christian Voice, an independent station in Lusaka. He also leads the discipleship and missions team for the Anglican Communion part of a global FB group, Jesus Shaped Life. And he has used small groups to support other discipleship efforts in his parish, growing from 200 average Sunday attendance to over 1,000 in a few years.
Here are some resources Fr. Robert and Brooke mention in our conversation today:

Bible Study Media (resource Brooke mentions)
Building Intentional Small Groups (resource Fr. Robert mentions)
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A couple months ago the Living Church made a friend in producer Mary Beth Minnis, a documentary filmmaker from Austin, Texas. In various ways, Mary Beth has dedicated her life to tell stories that reveal truth and bring hope. After over a decade in college ministry and mentoring with the organization, Cru, Mary Beth jumped headlong into the world of filmmaking, which you'll hear about in today's episode. Mary Beth has served as producer on seven films so far, including the short film TOWER, which won the 2018 Emmy for "Best Historical Documentary," and is currently at work on the documentary, Clarkston, with co-producer Katie Couric.

Today we'll talk about how and where Mary Beth sees the Lord at work in the film industry and in the lives of those she works with, the kinds of stories that she loves telling, what the craft of filmmaking can teach us about God, and what her job looks like day to day, which, I found, seems to involve a lot of the aspects and require many of the same virtues as working in ministry.

Learn more about Mary Beth's films:
Return to Mogadishu: Remembering Black Hawk Down
Imba Means Sing
Mama Rwanda
TOWER
JUMP SHOT: The Kenny Sailors Story
Imperdonabile/Unforgivable
CLARKSTON: The Most Diverse Square Mile

We've got a conversation today with guests who bring two different and very unique perspectives to the table, to help us get a theological vision for God's purpose for our common life together and how economics and the Christian life might intersect.

Our first guest is Dr. Daniela Augustine. Daniela is currently Reader in World Christianity and Pentecostal Studies at the University of Birmingham UK, with a previous background in economics. Her focus is in ethics and public theology and engaging Eastern Orthodox theology in conversation with Pentecostal theology, especially in liturgy, theosis, and the event of Pentecost as a paradigm for social transformation. Her latest book is The Spirit and the Common Good: Shared Flourishing in the Image of God.

Our second guest is The Rev. Dr. Nathan McLellan. Nathan worked as an economist in the New Zealand Treasury for over six years before a hunger for theological education led him to a Ph.D. in Christian ethics. He is currently CEO and Teaching Fellow at Venn Foundation, an education institution helping Christians explore the depths and riches of the Christian tradition for the good of their homes, workplaces, churches, and communities in New Zealand. He is passionate about helping others deepen their integration of faith and life, especially in the areas of economics, business, and leadership.

The conversation is moderated by Dr. Dallas Gingles. Dallas is the Site Director of the Houston-Galveston Extension Program of Perkins School of Theology, Southern Methodist University, where he teaches courses in moral theology, systematic theology, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and bioethics. His current work includes a co-edited volume on the future of Christian realism.

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Toronto, Ontario is a center of multinational life, education, commerce, the arts, and food. It's also full of thriving churches.

How do urban and rural Canadian Christians thrive? Where is the church growing, and why? And what can the rest of us learn from what Anglicans in Toronto are learning about ministry, multiculturalism, and community?

Today I speak with the Rt. Rev. Jenny Andison and the Rev. Dr. Jeff Boldt about these questions and more. They give me a little taste of life in this fascinating city, and a glimpse at how they've experienced immigration, ethnic diversity, and Indigenous life building up the body of Christ.

The Rt. Rev. Jenny Andison is rector at St. Paul's Bloor St in Toronto. She is the former area bishop of York-Credit Valley in the Diocese of Toronto and has served in Toronto for many years. Bishop Jenny has also served in the Diocese of London (UK), and the Diocese of Tokyo.

The Rev. Dr. Jeff Boldt serves as a priest in the diocese of Toronto. Jeff grew up as a Mennonite and has a previous career as an animator. Jeff has contributed to several volumes of Anglican theology, most recently in The Bible and the Prayer Book Tradition.

Just a note, I want to mention that we recorded this episode before the horrifying news broke, about the unmarked graves of hundreds of Indigenous children found on the grounds of former church-run schools in British Columbia and Saskatchewan. Though honoring multiethnicity and a growing church is where our conversation today will focus, we also acknowledge the history in North America, a history shared by Canada and the U.S., not only of ethnic tensions that naturally arise in diverse contexts, but of terrible abuses within the Church, a history that still cries out for repentance and healing. Lord, have mercy.

Thanks for joining us for this conversation. Shoulder your knapsack. And Let's head to Toronto.

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Right?

A couple of weeks ago we started a series on "Hybrid church." What is hybrid church, should we embrace it, is it theologically sound in part or in whole, who seems to be responding to it? Which technologies might work best for certain contexts, and how?

Today we talk to someone whose journey might be helpful to other digital ministry skeptics.

The Rev. John Mason Lock is rector of Trinity Episcopal Church in Red Bank, New Jersey, and he is passionately committed to traditional Anglican worship and liturgy, with a particular respect for the 1662 Book of Common Prayer.

And this is his story, his words of advice for rectors and other church leaders on how and why to adopt digital techniques for ministry today. And we also get his theological take on why it might be good still to keep the side-eye on all this hybrid stuff, so our tendency to avoid the challenges of embodied experience doesn't get out of control.

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Their latest in this series is a new translation of St. Augustine's Homilies on the Gospel of John. (See link below.)

June 8 TCLI co-hosted a master class and live Q+A session with Rowan Williams and Augustine scholar John Cavadini, focusing specifically on Augustine as a preacher, what we can learn as preachers from him, and on his homilies on John 6.

Today we're pleased to present the audio of this master class to you.

Our moderator is the Rev. Dr. Paul Kolbet. he is the author of a book on Augustine’s preaching, Augustine and the Cure of Souls: Revising a Classical Ideal. He is also Lecturer in the History of Christianity at Yale Divinity School, Co-Chair of the Augustine and Augustinianisms Group of the American Academy of Religion, and Interim Rector of All Saints’ Episcopal Church in Chelmsford, Mass.

Our first guest is Dr. John C. Cavadini, Professor of Theology at Notre Dame, where he also serves as McGrath-Cavadini Director of the McGrath Institute for Church Life. He specializes in patristic theology and in its early medieval reception. He has served a five-year term on the International Theological Commission (appointed by Pope Benedict the 16th) and received the Monika K. Hellwig Award for Outstanding Contributions to Catholic Intellectual Life.

Our second guest is the Most Rev. Dr. Rowan Williams. He served as Archbishop of Canterbury from 2002 to 2012, and then as Master of Magdalene College, Cambridge until 2020.  He has published numerous books on theology and spirituality, including On Augustine (2016) and Christ the Heart of Creation (2018). A new volume of Collected Poems will be published later this year.

Read new translations of Augustine by New City Press.

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In 1998, the Rev. Dr. Ephraim Radner, professor of historical theology at Wycliffe College, published a book called The End of the Church, a spicy title that refers to the egregious reality of disunity and failure in Christ's body. Given that, the book asks, doesn't death in the body indicate the Spirit's absence?

In 2019, Dr. Radner published another book on what he sees as our contemporary misreadings and misunderstandings of the Spirit's work in the world and our lives, and that book is called A Profound Ignorance: Modern Pneumatology and Its Anti-Modern Redemption.

Are we given the gift of the Holy Spirit in order to fix, or even alleviate, the world's problems and sufferings?

How do we know what the Holy Spirit is up to, when faced with vague or conflicting claims of the Spirit's work?

Where is the Holy Spirit in our failure?

The Rev Dr. Wesley Hill and I sat down for a conversation with the Rev. Dr. Ephraim Radner about just these questions. We were delighted and challenged. Enjoy listening in!

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Wherever you're at on this, very, very few of us are not asking questions about "hybrid church."  A couple weeks ago we set some framework with Dr. Sara Schumacher in a conversation about spiritual disciplines and the personal and communal development of Christlikeness and virtue as it relates to technology. Today we're going to get a different perspective from a rector who's been engaging technology for some time in pastoral care and evangelism, and especially social media and the internet, not only as a tool, but as a place for encounter.

The Rev. Tim Schenck has been rector at St. John the Evangelist in Hingham, MA, since 2009. He's also served parishes in New York and Baltimore. In a former life he was a political campaign consultant,  public affairs officer, and a paratrooper.

Father Tim is the author of five books including, most recently, Holy Grounds: The Surprising Connection Between Coffee and Faith (Fortress Press). He is also the mind behind the online devotional Lent Madness.

Should we embrace "hybrid church"? What the heck does that even mean? Today begins a two-part conversation on this topic.

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But they're not really new. Don't forget:

Before the pandemic, we were getting an avalanche of research about the risks and harms of screen time and digital technology. We were starting to hear about screen fasts and not letting our kids even see a smart phone until they reached a certain age.

And then, suddenly, screens became a window to the world in a whole new way. Digital technology has enabled, sometimes powerfully, sometimes feebly, connection with other people and places: a way to go to school, keep tabs on family and friends, have game night, date, and even (maybe?) go to church.

Today we introduce a series on just this tension, between what we're told we need, or actually need, in terms of digital tools and screen time to live faithfully as Christians in this moment, and the need to practice wisdom and discernment when it comes to choosing how to engage digitally with the world.

We're setting up a little philosophical framework today with Dr. Sara Schumacher. Sara is Academic Dean and tutor & lecturer in theology and the arts at St. Mellitus College. She's also author of the booklet Reimagining the Spiritual Disciplines for a Digital Age.

We had her on the show to talk about how the spiritual disciplines—particularly solitude, simplicity, and Sabbath—can help us to prepare to make choices about our use of digital technology, break addictive habits, and recognize when technology itself shows us where its limits are in helping us do what God calls us to.

Check out Sara's book here.

We love to explore all things Celtic. Celtic prayer services, Celtic Christian art, like the Book of Kells. Celtic pilgrimages.

We can get a little romantic about Celtic Christianity. The visual culture. The deep connection to creation. The sense of humor. And of course its wonderful panoply of saints.

But what is "Celtic Christianity" actually? Is it helpful, or even correct, to lump together Irish and Welsh Christianity like that? What do we get wrong? What distinctives do we miss? And what is actually unique about what God was up to on those wet, cold, beautiful coasts? And how do Welsh people feel about all this?

Well, today we'll be joined by:
Dr. Sarah Ward Clavier, senior lecturer in history at the University of the West of England, Bristol, and a scholar of Anglicanism and early modern political culture.  Her forthcoming book is entitled, Royalism, Religion, and Revolution: Wales, 1640-1688.

We're also joined by her husband, the Rev. Dr. Mark Clavier, residentiary canon at Brecon Cathedral, and the author of Reading Augustine: On Consumer Culture, Identity, the Church, and the Rhetorics of Delight.

Our conversation is led by Dr. Hannah Matis, Assoc. Professor of Church History at Virginia Theological Seminary.

Now grab your handcrafted Iona coffee mug and hold onto your prayer books -- for this fascinating conversation about the complex and surprising history of Celtic British Christianity!

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Today we've got an Easter gift for you. Every so often we have an episode of the podcast we call "Classic Texts," kind of like a mini audiobook, in which a special guest comes on and reads an excerpt from a good book, usually a spiritual classic, for us to enjoy.

Today there are several special guests, and several kinds of goodies in the Easter basket. Today we'll hear fiction, sermons, theology, and lots of poetry. If ever there was a Christian season for poetry, it is Easter, amen?

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Our very warm thanks to our guest readers:

Novelist Heather Cross reads an excerpt from The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis (by kind permission of The CS Lewis Company, Ltd.).

Poet and priest Malcolm Guite reads "Easter" by George Herbert.

The Rev. Dr. Katherine Songerdegger reads "Come Forth" by Wendell Berry, "An Altogether Different Language" by Anne Porter, and "That Nature Is a Heraclitean Fire and of the Comfort of the Resurrection" by Gerard Manley Hopkins.

Presiding Bishop Michael B. Curry reads an excerpt of No Future Without Forgiveness by Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

Dr. Jane Williams reads an excerpt from a sermon by Lancelot Andrewes, preached Easter Day 1622.

Former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams reads "Hymn of the Resurrection" by William Dunbar.

Mother Samira Page reads "Recognising You" by Amy Scott Robinson and Richard Lyall.

Our hope for this reading today is that it might usher you more deeply into the presence of the one who comes and seeks us out, in the garden where we weep, in all our locked rooms. May you find him, may he find you, may the hope of the resurrection touch you and give you joy, in these readings today.

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Because today we've pulled together six different guests to take us behind the scenes of the Living Church, to the colorful variety of folks who influence our identity and our business operations. Today we'll meet some folks from our Foundation, the people who have a big impact on shaping TLC.

Editors Mark Michael and Amber Noel talk to TLC's five newest Foundation members. If you want to see all the fascinating stories and delightfully varied backgrounds of this amazing group, you can go to livingchurch.org/foundation.

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Guests today include:
Heidi J. Kim
The Very Rev. Dr. Paul F.M. Zahl
The Rev. Clint Wilson
The Rt. Rev. Samy Shehata
The Rev. Colin Ambrose

What is your relationship to reading and growth in the spiritual life?

Do books have to be great or deep in order to bear spiritual fruit? What makes reading a uniquely powerful avenue for spiritual growth? What are some of its dangers to the spiritual life? What is a Christian way to read, if there is such a thing? Do books and reading make us too "ivory tower" for the "real world"? Can books ever help divides between those with more access to elite education and those with less?

Today we'll hear a really fun conversation I had with the Rev. Dr. Lauren Winner, where we looked at some of these questions. Dr. Winner is a well-known Christian author and Associate Professor of Christian Spirituality at Duke. She's also Vicar of St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Louisburg, N.C., and self-proclaimed book lover. (Book addict?) Our conversation takes us from childhood to incarcerated communities, to a top 5 of some of the books that have had a spiritual impact on her life.

Some of the books we discuss in the show:

Facing East: A Pilgrim's Journey into the Mysteries of Orthodoxy
At Home in Mitford
Reading Is My Window: Books and the Art of Reading in Women's Prisons
Radical Orthodoxy
The Making of a Sonnet
Pilgrim, You Find the Path by Walking
Gentile Tales: The Narrative Assault on Late Medieval Jews
In This House of Brede
Shakespeare Behind Bars: the Power of Drama in a Women's Prison
Ponder These Things: Praying with Icons of the Virgin
Kristin Lavransdatter (trans. Tiina Nunnally)
Catherine of Siena

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Anti-Racist Ministry for a Global Church

LLF is a suite of resources just put out by the Church of England — it includes videos, a book, study and teaching materials — and what does it do? It does a lot. It shares the massive results of research, history, storytelling — theological, anecdotal, traditional, scientific, sociological — and it begins to really closely analyze the sources of convergence and divergence between people who have differently formed consciences and viewpoints on marriage and sexuality to try to come to a truly new place of communal discernment.

LLF is not a project intended to give answers. And that may be frustrating to some folks.

So what is the goal of the project? And what's the end game? How do the people who directed the project hope it will serve the Church? How might it likely relate to Lambeth 2022? Is it really new, or is it just a bunch of old news packaged in a new way? What has it uncovered exactly? And how can people, from dioceses to local congregations, use it?

Today we get to hear from the Rev. Canon Dr. Andrew Goddard, who was part of the team who built LLF, interviewed by the Rev. Canon Dr. Jordan Hylden.

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Read the transcript.

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Click here for information on Hill's book, The Lord's Prayer: A Guide to Praying to Our Father.

Songs played in this episode: "Brother James' Air," "Praise to the Lord," "O Food to Pilgrims Given," "Modeh Ani," "Is There Anybody Here," Telemann's "Fantasia," Biber's "Passacaglia," "Come Down O Love Divine."

Click here to renew or subscribe to the Episcopal Musician's Handbook.

For more resources, see Bishop Gallagher's books, Coming Full Circle: Constructing Native Christian Theology and Reweaving the Sacred.

Click here for more resources on acedia.

Click here to find further children's ministry resources for both parents and pastors.

Click here to view a sample cash forecast document prepared by Seth Cutter. Other resources mentioned can be found at episcopalfoundation.org and presbyterianfoundation.org.